 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi guys, first post so hopefully someone will want to offer some advice if they can.
I've got myself a nice pair of what are essentially World Cup race boots Head Raptor B3 RD's, With the plug in it's softest setting they are at a "120" flex and it's proving a still a little hard for me for everything beyond a Slalom ski.
I've got a narrow foot and "acquired" the boots  so I'd really like to make them work as a more all-round pair, more forgiving for just general free-skiing, GS boards and the like especially when it's -15c in January!
So long story short, where about in the shell and more importantly how much plastic should I cut out to drop the flex of the boot? Is this even advisable?
There is a dashed line on the top overlap of the boot that says FRONT SUPPORT TUNING, but even the Head rep couldn't tell me if this was an advisable place to cut some plastic to soften the flex.
Hopefully some of you guys have experience with this or this particular boot! If not I just gotta eat more as I weigh in for winter weight at about 68kg!
thanks
P.S. - average skiing level, far beyond most tourists but not expert, ski anything anywhere about 100 days a year total, still have lots of technique to build and perfect but very athletic as I come from a professional sports background.
Thanks again
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Pies and beer.
Be careful with the cutting, done wrong it can increase the travel, which could damage your Achilles tendon.
Having tried it, now feel its a job for experts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Condition, if your skiing 100 days a year I'd take them to a reputable shop and get some advice....as jbob says you could make it worse rather than better....
Whereabouts in the world are you and perhaps we can recommend some boot shops to visit?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Colin at Solutions for feet in Bicester softened up a pair of Atomic Race Tech boots for me by cutting away material away from the cheeks of the clog. If you're within reasonable travelling distance he'll sort you out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for the replies guys, I live in Haute-Savoie, France. I'd really like to give this a go myself I suppose for the learning experience! Although as you guys point out it is risky. Any recommendations for a good boot-fitter in this region? Language doesn't matter I speak French and English.
Still wanna give it a go myself though!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I know sod all about boots, but I've got a pair of head ladies Vectors. What I was aware of when I got them was the stiffness of the lining as well as plastic of the boot itself. Rather than butcher the boot is there any possibility that you could get the change you need with a different lining?
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Condition, if you are in the haute savoie then you will have easy access to boot fitters. There is a SH in cham at Sole who could help.One thing you might try first is to replace the power strap with an elasticated booster strap, one of the softer ones could reduce the stiffness by 10 or so.
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As well as Sole there is TheBootroom who work out of Sanglard Sports in Chamonix and SkiClinic in Cluses.
I have had my race boots fitted by Sole but SkiClinic sell Head Raptors.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jbob, I also wondered about the power strap, I didn't know you could get elasticated one, but if you can then it has to be worth trying.
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Ok,
Thank for all the replies guys. I never thought of trying out a soft booster strap, great idea. The stock double power strap is real hefty. I'm not sure about changing liners as well the stock liner is paper thin so I can't see me getting something more forgiving in there and still keeping the same volume.
Maybe a trip to the boot fitters for a chat over viable options is the best bet!?
Thanks
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Dunno about that model but my boots have a double bolt arrangement on the spine of the cuff. You always have to have one in but removing one or the other will soften the flex varying amounts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The boots are at their softest possible setting via the "bolts" at the rear of boot. 120 flex. Thanks
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Condition, this is probably not helpful at all, but,
RULE 5
(Nominal 120 flex, especially if you are athletic, is only a hairsbreadth away from nominal 110 or 100 which, frankly, in my mind are the basic minima to support an adult weight...)
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You know it makes sense.
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spyderjon, I looked the boots up as mine have a similar arrangement, but as the OP stated the 120 is actually the softest that set of boots went down to.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So son has raptors (juniors) and we were talking them through with the boot fitter and coach last night. Coach used to be some sort of Head rep and knows a lot. Boot fitter is best in Canada I think, Lou.
Firstly, is there a bolt at the back that you remove, all the junior raptors have this, its metal. its not the same as the plastic nut thingey. This gives about 10 more flex.
Secondly you can shave bits of boot off and in fact the boot fitter maintains you can soften any boot but you can't stiffen them. Indeed it appears the line at the front is the one you cut first, but you can cut other bits too.
I would go to a serious boot fitter for this (if you have removed bolt and they are still too stiff), after all aren't they expensive boots? and you wouldn't want to do too much..
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Poster: A snowHead
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Condition, just noted your weight...
I am somewhat biased as I like a stiff boot (fnarr fnarr) but my last boots were 150s and I downgraded to 130s because I'm a lightweight and soft. My fighting weight is around 61kgs.
My better half weights somewhat less than I do and skis on 130s as well. Powder and bumps as well...
I am tempted to suggest that the problem is not the stiffness of the boots...??
Did you mean you have done 100 days on snow total? or average 100 days per season?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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before softening anything you need to establish if it is the plastic which is too stiff or if the forward lean of the boot is using up all your available range of motion at the ankle joint
the raptor has a 17 degree forward lean with a 5 degree ramp angle, to STAND in the boot you need to be able to bend your angle 12 degrees (past 90 degrees) you would due amazed at the number of people who simply cannot do this... if you can get to that position or just a little bit past it then you will only flex the boot a little! the boot will appear stiffer than it really is, if you have extra available ROM then the boot will flex easily as you press forward onto the tongue
so is the boot too stiff or at the ankle joint too stiff?
reeve your shoes and sit on a chair so that your thighs are parallel to the ground, your lower leg is vertical and your feet sit pinging straight ahead approx a fist with apart, now lift he front of your feet off of the floor, have some one see how much space you have under the 5th metatarsal head (the ball of the foot at your little toe side) can you get 2 fingers in there cleanly? or only 1 finger? of even 3 fingers?? make sure the knee joint and ankle joint are at 90 degrees before you start the test
if you can get two fingers under the 5th met head then there is a good change all is well with the flex of your ankle, if it is much less than that you will struggle to bend the boot due to the angle of the shell using up all the ROM that you have... if this is the case i would try and get shot and start with a more upright boot shell (pretty much most things are more upright than the raptor (doesn't make it a bad boot, just needs the correct ROM in the ankle to work well) the only other thing to check here is the circumference of your calf muscle at the top of the boot, if it is more than 14" around then that will also push you forward in the boot using up any available ROM at the ankle joint
also the obvious shell check for size should be done as well, a big boot won't bend as you cannot contact the whole of the font of it
hope that helps, just ask if there is any confusion, i am travelling back from a conference today so might not answer immediately
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi CEM and thanks for a very good reply. I love a bit of "geek" info, especially as often I've found changes in equipment have brought my skiing forward in little chunks some times!
My ankle dorsi-flexion is real good, slightly reduced ROM on right ankle compared to left but overall real good. Like I said before I'm an ex athlete and now work as a coach full time so mobility and flexibility are not an issue for me (Although I do have right knee tracking issues with a slight valgus due to the aforementioned ankle injury).
When doing your test I can get 3 fingers under 5th metatarsal on both feet. Calf muscle is small enough, not a huge framed guy.
So my question is should I go ahead and but along the dotted line on the other overlap of the boot or should I ski another few days with it and see how it goes? I've skied about 20-25 days total with the boot now so I'm assuming it's broken in?
Shell size is fine, a bit over 1 finger at rear in shell.
thanks again for your time
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Condition, just noted your weight...
I am somewhat biased as I like a stiff boot (fnarr fnarr) but my last boots were 150s and I downgraded to 130s because I'm a lightweight and soft. My fighting weight is around 61kgs.
My better half weights somewhat less than I do and skis on 130s as well. Powder and bumps as well...
I am tempted to suggest that the problem is not the stiffness of the boots...??
Did you mean you have done 100 days on snow total? or average 100 days per season?
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Hi, I see the direction you are going in here. The reason I want to soften the boots up is to make them more versatile. I love them on slalom skis, but found them to aggressive/stiff to really apply the forward pressure I wanted on GS skis or more general all mountain boards. I felt like I had more control in a variety of conditions with the softer boots (my other boots were Dalbellos in the 90-100 region, but that's just numbers the flex totally differently.)
Maybe you are right I need to just stick with the boots and try to improve technique and maximise a stiffer boot. I've skied maybe 250 days total in my life! Not all of it amazing!!
But as I "acquired" the boots and they fit my skinny foot so well I'd like to be able to strap them on in all conditions to save me having to buy more boots! Maybe though I should just run them for their intended use and stick to piste skiing with them and run something else for pow/sending it!
Thanks
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Condition, definitely not meaning to cast any aspersions... 250 days, I'd think you should know more or less what you're up to.
If you feel you have more control with a softer boot, well, hey, it's all about having fun isn't it? I know two ex-olympian downhilllers who ski(ed) on what I think were ridiculously soft boots. Seems as though if you do mod the Heads, you'll lose something on your SLs though, so maybe something softer for hangover days would be appropriate?
If you're in the Haute-Savoie, you could do worse than passing by Sole in Chamonix for a consultation and a beer.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hey all,
Just a quick late season update, I've skied more this year then in any other and in a huge variety of conditions. In the end I never touched the plastic on my Raptors, just strapped in and skied them, so obviously they are far more "broken in" now and actually I'm real happy withthe flex and how the flex, I've skied everything from steep chutes in 35cm of fresh to a new set of xorld cup GS skis with them. In total this year I've proably skied 30 pairs of differnet skis, slalom, public Gs, WC GS, soft easy to ski things like a Head Chip, umtimate fun like a Head GTO, stiff mid-fats like volkl Mantra and all the rest, BBR's, Chams, Jams, sould and Squad 7s etc...
the boot performed amazingly well everywhere, helped a little by the warm weather, but all in all the lateral stifness and precison is amazing and my skiing ability has come on another notch.
The question is now seen as I can get such good prices on boots I'd like to try a similarly lasted race type boot in the same flex range but possibly with less forward leana nd ramp for primarily powder and chopped with skiing. the head punishes mistakes in powder which has been fantastic for technique but I'd like to keep the head fresh now for endless piste laps on the GS and slalom skis and try something maybe with a little less forward lean in the same type of boot.
Looking at either a Dalbello Scorpian or the new Atomic Redster pro 120/130 (not the WC), they make a good looking white or Green redster for 2015 now in none race graphics for guys looking for what I'm looking for I suppose but the 130 comes with the decent booster style top strap, the 120 not..so would be looking to add a Booster to the 120?? Or si teh forward lean on the Redster very close to the Raptor?
So do any of the boot fitters on here have any ideas? I'm also open to suggestions, Lange, Technica, Nordica or even the new Rossignol Hero race boot?
thanks
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the current raptor you have is marked as a 95mm last but head measure their boots in a size 27 not a 26 like most other brands so it measures up as a 93mm last... the redster pro is a 98mm last so will probably fit like a bucket by comparison, possibly the world cup version (95mm) or the lange/rossi RP boot (92mm last in ZA flex or ZJ+...which is softer but also a mm or so wider in the forefoot due to shaping in the mold)
all depends on how the raptor fits your foot and how much work you want to have done or not have done as the case may be
both are more upright than the raptor
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right, simples, take out the liner, put the shells in the oven at 80°C, once hot, put it back together put your feet in and flex it like you wanna break it, keep doing so until cold to touch, job done. Merci Caio.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Chop 'em in for a pair of RS115s. 
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Head B3 Raps - Good Boots.
Ur in Haute-Savoie Fr. Take them to Sanglard Sports in Cham. Ask for Damien.(or Jules)
(If ur asking for advice on here then don't bother diy - take to B/Fitter)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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funny, thanks for the replies, but the last 3 posters clearly haven't read my most recent reply where I say that the b3 RD's are no longer in need of being softened as I broke them in a bit and learned to ski less like a Joey! So advice on softening is no longer needed. Thanks though.
@CEM - thanks once again for a detailed post, much appreciated. The B3 Raptors fit me perfect out of teh box, no hot spots, no major issues, except o some heavy pow days when the boots spent a lot of time under the snow hiking etc... the stiffened up witht he cold temps and caused a little bit of compression across the forfoot, both sides. Once I rode a lift, flciked open teh buckles and slapped a few high energy turns to get some blood flowing that goes away so no issues there. I do open the bottom buckles on all lifts tough, it's a habit now.
Your comments on the Redster are interesting, I tried on a 130 pro last year and it felt a little roamier then the Raptor for sure. Do you think it would pose me major control issues as a primarily all day, all mountain boot? Or would I be better going dozn the rossi road? Any thoughts on the less stiff Technicas? I like the idea of having all the adjustment options on the Redsters and the softer/harder footboards etc.. but maybe a WC version at 95mm would be better! Just FYI I'm in a 27.5 shell but I'm thining if stretched a little a 26.5 shell could work!
thanks again
Oh and @Mollerski - the RS115 is a certain no go for me, 98mm last is too big in the Heads and the 115s have those horrible cheap rigid pseudo spineflex buckles that pop opena dn cause all sorts of compression sots on the shell. The very reason I wend for an RD boot was lasting and to be honest I'm not even sure it's the same plastic in the RS boots feels and flexes different! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not sure of the origin of the term Joey...but I'm not British so never heard of Mr.Deacon. Sorry if it caused you offence!
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You know it makes sense.
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If your french Condition its like Regis fait le Ski?
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FAQ
I doubt if he ever put a pair of skis on.
