 Poster: A snowHead
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I've been snowboarding for a few years, but for last 2 seasons moved to skiing
while it's fun the problem I see is that even though I have carving skis, I'm told that you need to be very good with skidding (at least 5-6 years of skiing) before you start to carve
can I start to learn carving earlier - or even this season? or is it only for advanced skiers?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fraktale, what's your definition of seasons and years' skiing? Do you mean full seasons or one week's holiday? Can you carve your board?
IMV skiers with 6-10 weeks on snow should have sufficient skills to start trying to carve. Experienced boarders are often quicker to learn because they already know what the sensation is that they're trying to achieve and they're not afraid of the speed increase.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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fraktale, welcome to snowHeads. Develop all the important skills as soon as you can would be my advice. Can't see any need to hold back developing some skills because of an artificially imposed timetable.
The biggest problem I see in people learning to link cleanly carved turns is rushing the beginning of the turn, pushing or twisting their skis rather than simply tipping them on to their edges and standing on them at the same time. I think it is best to develop that particular skill on very gentle terrain, greens or easy blues, so that people don't have anxiety issues from skiing quickly, subconsciously forcing their skis to turn far quicker than they would by just tipping them on to their edges. If you can manage to develop that skill in your first season on skis I can't see what the problem is.
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Hi
I assume you mean skiing and not skidding as skidding and carving are an anathema. If you have been skiing for 2 years you should be at least starting to carve this season. Remember most people who say they can carve actually can't. would need to se a vid of you skiing if you need any more pointers.
Good luck and enjoy your season.
Andy
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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After you bring your perfectly roasted turkey out of the oven, remove it from the roasting pan and let it rest for about 20 minutes on a clean cutting board.
Be sure to start with a sharp carving knife and sturdy fork.
Does that help??
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I was taught to carve as soon as I was skiing parallel, skidding just meant you werent skiing properly so 5-6 years of skidding is 5-6 years of getting into bad habbits. Saying that it was very hard to skid skis back then, its these new fangled ones that make it easier to cheat (skid).
Im the opposite of you though, Ive been skiing all my life but taken up boarding the last couple of years. I found before boarding clicked I was skidding round every turn but now Ive got the hang of it Ive started carving on it quite nicely. I think its the knowledge I have about making a ski carve that has made it a very quick step to be carving a board. Do you carve on your board or just throw it round the turn?
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fraktale, Well at least you don't fit the stereo-type new poster that so often puts 'I've been skiing for a week and carved my first 'black' on the Thursday'. I would suggest that it is not time spent skiing that determines when you start to carve, but how quickly you progress and that depends on the person you are. You might argue that with 15 weeks or so under my belt that I should have been carving for ages - in reality I have just about the technical progress where I can start to think about it. Some rare, genuinely gifted individuals might well start at the end of their first week. In reality it's probably somewhere in between and I think your instructor will soon tell you if you are ready. You might even find that the work they have been doing with you is working towards that end anyway. 
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| medlington wrote: |
| I was taught to carve as soon as I was skiing parallel, skidding just meant you werent skiing properly so 5-6 years of skidding is 5-6 years of getting into bad habbits. Saying that it was very hard to skid skis back then, its these new fangled ones that make it easier to cheat (skid). |
Good luck with the pure carves in steeps, trees, deep, bumps, gullies, etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for quick replies!
Unfortunately I don't have a video of myself skiing. In 2 seasons I only spent 3 weeks skiing and I'm doing parallel turns. As for snowboarding I tried carving but honestly never learnt it.
I think I'll give carving a try this season
I'm going to Flachau first - can you recommend any instructor?
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| medlington wrote: |
I was taught to carve as soon as I was skiing parallel, skidding just meant you werent skiing properly so 5-6 years of skidding is 5-6 years of getting into bad habbits. Saying that it was very hard to skid skis back then, its these new fangled ones that make it easier to cheat (skid).
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Srsly? Old fangled skis were almost impossible for anyone without high level skills to carve and the "carver" revolution doesn't mean that suddenly skidding became hard. I read your post as saying that skidding has only become an issue with newish skis (maybe rocker) when I'd have thought it has always been a universal that is nothing really to do with kit other than the issue explored on the other thread that fatter skis are harder to pure carve due to simple physics.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fraktale,
| Quote: |
Unfortunately I don't have a video of myself skiing. In 2 seasons I only spent 3 weeks skiing and I'm doing parallel turns. As for snowboarding I tried carving but honestly never learnt it.
I think I'll give carving a try this season |
3 weeks to parallel is pretty normal, 3 weeks to carving isn't so don't be disheartened if can't do it. No harm in trying a bit of railing on some gentle gradients though.
If you can at least get a bit of the feeling of the skis turning you instead of you turning them, it will speed up your development and understanding of the mechanics involved in skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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fraktale, No specific instructor, but the Herman Maier ski school is just under the Acterjet lift in the village and you can book online with a debit or credit card with them now.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| medlington wrote: |
I was taught to carve as soon as I was skiing parallel, skidding just meant you werent skiing properly so 5-6 years of skidding is 5-6 years of getting into bad habbits. Saying that it was very hard to skid skis back then, its these new fangled ones that make it easier to cheat (skid).
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Srsly? Old fangled skis were almost impossible for anyone without high level skills to carve and the "carver" revolution doesn't mean that suddenly skidding became hard. I read your post as saying that skidding has only become an issue with newish skis (maybe rocker) when I'd have thought it has always been a universal that is nothing really to do with kit other than the issue explored on the other thread that fatter skis are harder to pure carve due to simple physics. |
I mean they were so much longer with much less of a side cut so just throwing them round took much more effort. When I say newish skis I mean ones after the mid nineties, when they got shorter with smaller radius sidecuts. The instructors I had when I was little always tried to teach to set the edge and let the ski turn itself NOT to turn the ski (skid) it went snowplough, step turns, then carving. Id say this was the right way as thats how the skis are designed to turn, once you've mastered that the you can cheat by skidding etc.
My old GS skis circa 1994 carve like an absolute dream.
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You know it makes sense.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| medlington wrote: |
| I was taught to carve as soon as I was skiing parallel, skidding just meant you werent skiing properly so 5-6 years of skidding is 5-6 years of getting into bad habbits. Saying that it was very hard to skid skis back then, its these new fangled ones that make it easier to cheat (skid). |
Good luck with the pure carves in steeps, trees, deep, bumps, gullies, etc. |
Unfortunately that's why my carvers don't make it out to the slopes anymore, not bad on steeps to be fair but Im mad about trees and off piste now so my newer skis get taken instead
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
5-6 years of skidding is 5-6 years of getting into bad habbits.
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Skidding is (an essential) part of the tool box. To suggest you can carve everywhere, all the time, is 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| medlington wrote: |
| once you've mastered that the you can cheat by skidding etc. |
Skidding ain't cheating, it's essential (if you substitute rotary skills for the perjorative "skidding")
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
5-6 years of skidding is 5-6 years of getting into bad habbits.
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Skidding is (an essential) part of the tool box. To suggest you can carve everywhere, all the time, is |
Im not suggesting you can carve 100% of the time but I am suggesting that you should learn carving before skidding as I was always told that carving was the correct way to ski. If you just learn to thrown your skis round all the time and not set your edges then your not really using the ski as it was designed to be used IMO.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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medlington, Taking teh normal learning pattern, you have to start with skidding (snowplough) and skidding (to stop) and more skidding (in stem turns) before you can really start to carve and steer, so no! you should not learn carving before skidding. I would agree that three weeks should get you starting to carve, but many will not really start to carve until six weeks in. Even then, as pam w and fatbob, indicated there are lots of times you need to skid.
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I think we have different ideas of what skidding is, I wouldn't say you skid while snowploughing. Yes you skid to stop parallel in a kind of way but Im talking about when people make a turn and they havent set their edge and so their skis are sliding sideways down the slope while turning rather than setting the edge. In which case they would end up finishing the turn several meters further down the slope then they intended to. From my memory (admittedly we're talking almost 30 years ago now) if you skidded around a turn the instructor would say your doing it wrong. So at no point would the 'skid' be a taught technique.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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medlington, skidding (or twisting, if you prefer) is an essential skiing skill, in exactly the same way as tipping/edging/carving is an essential skill. Skidding is the steering method that is taught first because it is a slower way to ski.
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medlington, I take your point, but what you seem to be talking about is just failing to engage the edges. Yet, this is precisely what downhill skiers do at the end of the run to come to a stop and to a lesser degree to make a turn when they need to wash off some speed.
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I think we can agree that skidding when you are claiming to be carving isn't great but in reality describes any move when the edges aren't fully engaged in the snow from a failure to bite (or a skip out of the track) on hardpack to a deliberate drifting or pivoting move - Ted's Stivot is a skid by another name perhaps done more athletically and partially off the snow surface.
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fatbob, the beauty in Ted's stivot, to my eye, is not the transition from carve to skid, but skid to carve. Much more skilful move than suddenly twisting the skis from a carve to a skid.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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medlington, I am still at an early stage of learning and I have def. had it presented that a skidded turn should be something actively taught and learned. rob@rar, has certainly advocated this approach and IIRC Fastman actually devotes some fair sections of his website to discussing the skidded turn and why it is important to be able to do. I am not an instructor, but I am a learner, I can see the point of learning it and I can't agree with your comment:
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So at no point would the 'skid' be a taught technique.
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As I am sure it IS a valid and taught technique because I have been taught about it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| medlington wrote: |
| I think we have different ideas of what skidding is, I wouldn't say you skid while snowploughing. Yes you skid to stop parallel in a kind of way but Im talking about when people make a turn and they havent set their edge and so their skis are sliding sideways down the slope while turning rather than setting the edge. In which case they would end up finishing the turn several meters further down the slope then they intended to. |
That's a 'slarve' (and a poo-poo-tonne of fun when done deliberately in steep powder!)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| fatbob, the beauty in Ted's stivot, to my eye, is not the transition from carve to skid, but skid to carve. Much more skilful move than suddenly twisting the skis from a carve to a skid. |
Actually I'm not sure beauty is the word because it must be an affront to purists but you're right. Locking in again is the bit that makes it work although I think there must be a lot of skill underlying the "chuck it sideways" phase in order to land it where he needs to.
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I (think I) found it pretty easy to learn as it is the same theory as doing loops of an ice-skating ring at speed. I suppose also similar to riding a motorbike/mountain bike in corners - just lean and let the equipment (and physics) do all the work for you
Not sure if advice any use or more confusing, but there it is anyway!
(Disclaimer: I am not a ski instructor nor do I actually claim to know what I'm doing, for all I know I am doing it wrong!)
**EDIT** I THINK (it was a while ago, and again this is providing I am actually Carving) the way I picked it up (or was told I was doing it) was practicing slalom trying to get faster and faster while thinking 'this is just like ice skating'
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You know it makes sense.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Actually I'm not sure beauty is the word because it must be an affront to purists but you're right. Locking in again is the bit that makes it work although I think there must be a lot of skill underlying the "chuck it sideways" phase in order to land it where he needs to. |
Yes, agree, it's just a skilful thing all round, at both the start and end of the move. I find it easier to twist the skis from a carve to create a big steering angle for the next turn without disrupting my balance too much, but feathering the skis on to their edges at that kind of speed is just a bit too scary!
While I think it is a bit of an ugly move from the purist point of view, from a "absolute limit, do anything to be fast' perspective it is pretty good 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A wise woman once told me. First you learn to skid. Then you up the performance and learn to carve. Next level again you relearn how to skid.
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Poster: A snowHead
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medlington, "hard to skid skis back then"
Back when?
Skidding skis was way easier pre-"carving" skis. Although it's probably easier again with poor technique on rockers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think you can learn to carve on your first day skiing, provided you have the right terrain and understand the basics of carving. I taught my kids this way, and they learned the concepts before they ever got on skis, then carved from their first day. They don't only carve, of course, but they understand that they can and how to work the skis edges.
How do you learn? Get on the flattest terrain you can find, ideally with an upslope at the "bottom" so you don't have to do anything to stop. Aim 'em straight downhill. Tip your feet gently to one side just barely. Then, tip them gently the other way. This movement is small, subtle, and limited. Make it rhythmic like a pendulum, but very small and slow. Your skis will follow their sidecut, first one way, then the other. Continue this through the upslope to a stop.
Repeat.
Repeat a few more times.
Examine the tracks you make. Practice in an effort to make the tracks to be lines in the snow. Listen to the skis and endeavor to have the sound be as soft and quiet as possible.
I have taught multiple novice skiers this approach. It is not the only way to ski and is not suitable for many situations. However, it's a boatload of fun and teaches edging skills that you can use for different situations as you gain experience and other skills.
Hope this helps!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ssh, exactly right, that's the approach I take. Terrain choice is key, and equipment choice is also very important. Hoping to do some of this kind of work tomorrow if the weather allows.
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ssh, I did/do this on flatter pitches/approaches to chairlifts, cat tracks etc as I need to improve my carving initiation....
makes a flat green a whole lot more fun as well
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Snow Arcs rob@rar, I would expect nothing less!
BTW, the tracks should look something like this...
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| kitenski wrote: |
ssh, I did/do this on flatter pitches/approaches to chairlifts, cat tracks etc as I need to improve my carving initiation....
makes a flat green a whole lot more fun as well |
I completely agree! As those who skied with me during the EoSB may remember, my mantra is, "Waste no terrain," and this is a great use of those areas of the mountain that are otherwise quite boring to navigate.
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ssh, important bit for me is the transition and what happens at the start of the turn. Difficult to cleanly initiate a series of linked carved turns (which is what you are addressing in your progression described above), but getting skis up on to their edges at some point of the turn is less difficult.
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Bit like this
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| ssh, important bit for me is the transition and what happens at the start of the turn. Difficult to cleanly initiate a series of linked carved turns (which is what you are addressing in your progression described above), but getting skis up on to their edges at some point of the turn is less difficult. |
I agree. I couldn't find a transition photo, but it's cool when the tracks show that you move from one edge to the other (effecting a "jump" in the track that's the width of your skis going from the uphill edge to the downhill one).
The reason I focus so much on limiting the movement is exactly for this reason. If the skier moves too quickly or too drastically or too much, it will be virtually impossible to maintain the arc. So, move slowly, a very short distance, gently, carefully, and just after you move to one edge, start back.
I love the sensations!
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| rob@rar wrote: |
Bit like this
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Hmmm... I get "photo unavailable"?
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FAQ
