 Poster: A snowHead
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... says Kieran Lee:
Ski rants: chalets are too luxurious
Less is more on the mountain so let's take chalets back to basics, says Kieran Lee
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/features/10404223/Chalets-are-too-luxurious.html
The key point (since presumably you can still buy whatever level of luxury or austerity you want) would seem to be ...
| Quote: |
| Ultimately, this seemingly endless drive by chalet companies to add ever more “luxury” – the buzzword when it comes to this kind of upmarketeering – is a not-so-subtle way to bolster profits. The result is that the supply of affordable chalets, particularly self-catered ones, gets smaller and smaller ... |
Is this actually true? Is that supply of budget accommodation diminishing, in the current market?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| Is this actually true? Is that supply of budget accommodation diminishing, in the current market? |
Does anyone care about pointless ski 'journalism'?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interesting juxtaposition to the photospread on the 150k - 200k per week chalet in Courchevel that went on the Telegraph site earlier today.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| Is this actually true? Is that supply of budget accommodation diminishing, in the current market? |
Does anyone care about pointless ski 'journalism'? |
+1
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think this is a valid point - are chalets going the wrong way yo differentiate themselves with luxury and would be better off competing on price
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Chalets in general are now out of our (familys) reach hence self drive becoming the norm.
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There's plenty of cheap accommodation around, and plenty of luxury accommodation, and plenty in between. Just basically too much, all round. Some people insist on "luxury". It's exactly the same with charter boats. These days, it's very difficult to charter anything less then pretty big. The average marina on a holiday weekend is full of the most enormous great things.
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Loads of cheap deals around, look at any of the 'high street' tour operators or something like UCPA. In my opinion the reason 'more luxury' works is that many people who have been on a cheap one decide that it's worth paying a bit more for a better experience. I'm not talking about doubling the cost of the holiday, just the difference between TUI and a decent independent operator.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Does anyone care about pointless ski 'journalism'?
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+2!! There seems to have been an avalanche of Ski related drivel this year! Complaints about the most benign €rap in normally respectable (DM excluded) news channels!
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| Quote: |
Chalets in general are now out of our (familys) reach hence self drive becoming the norm
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Unless you plan to sleep in the car I'm not quite sure how self-drive is going to solve the problem of chalets being too expensive.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Oh the article does paint a picture
"the shaking of the Scrabble letters bag in the evenings"
They must have been in St Anton
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Does anyone care about pointless ski 'journalism'? |
I find that people have a remarkable amount of time for pointless ski journalism at this time of year, especially on snowHeads.
| Johnor wrote: |
Oh the article does paint a picture
"the shaking of the Scrabble letters bag in the evenings"
They must have been in St Anton |
Are we talking pointless Scrabble games here, or the ones where you count the score?
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Does anyone care about pointless ski 'journalism'? |
I have a remarkable amount of time for pointless ski journalism at this time of year, especially on snowHeads.
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Edit for truthfulness.
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You know it makes sense.
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"Luxury" is just a commodity concept - every generic offering seems to use meaningless "luxury" words so customers either ignore it or have inflated expectations leading to disppointment. I stayed in a very respectably nice French chalet once where all the luxury in the world would have been entirely undermined by the chi-chi sleigh bed which wasn't long enough for me to sleep comfortably - idiots. Looked lovely in the bedroom photos though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Friends of mine have a luxury apartment in Arc 1950, it is very smart. I realised after an hour why it felt so right.
It was like being at home. Quality leather sofa, room to swing a cat, nice granite in bathrooms and kitchen, proper bedding etc.
Not luxury, normal.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Its normal for me not to have cake at home at 4pm. Any chalet that supplies cake at 4pm must be luxurious. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Luxury accommodation might be a bit too luxurious for us normal holidaymakers, but basic accommodation is way too basic in my book. I fail to see how sleeping six to a room with a shower the size of a coolbox constitutes a holiday. Especially if it costs 3 times the price of a week at home.
Oh, and while I'm at it, more single rooms please, 1 in 5 adults are single, please stop ignoring us!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
Luxury accommodation might be a bit too luxurious for us normal holidaymakers, but basic accommodation is way too basic in my book. I fail to see how sleeping six to a room with a shower the size of a coolbox constitutes a holiday. Especially if it costs 3 times the price of a week at home.
Oh, and while I'm at it, more single rooms please, 1 in 5 adults are single, please stop ignoring us! |
are you saying there is nothing inbetween 
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eddiethebus, well yes there is for me, I usually stay in nice guest houses or hotels, but I can afford to do so and I want a single half board room. I think people on a budget are poorly catered for. It's only a £100 or so a week cheaper than the type of places I stay but vastly inferior in terms of space and quality.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I dont really understand the issue
if you pay more you get more room and quality (generally speaking)
if i booked a holiday for 4 people for £250 each i'd be amazed to get anything other than a studio, property is expensive we pay 1k a month for a 1 bedroom flat in chamonix, its just the way it is ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I stayed in a very respectably nice French chalet once where all the luxury in the world would have been entirely undermined by the chi-chi sleigh bed which wasn't long enough
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Is any bed in France long enough?
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For a nation that makes silly loaf lengths, it makes no sense at all
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| eddiethebus wrote: |
| property is expensive we pay 1k a month for a 1 bedroom flat in chamonix, its just the way it is ? |
Jeez, best knock Chamonix off my list of places to live next 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eddiethebus, Exactly, its up to the holidaymakers to choose what type of accommodation they want. In our village we have chalets with differing standards and indeed prices that reflect this. Comedy Goldsmith,
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one of my mates is living in the flagship amazon creek chalet in chamonix at the moment....its ****ing mindblowing  Hate to imagine how expensive it would be to rent for a week!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
Oh, and while I'm at it, more single rooms please, 1 in 5 adults are single, please stop ignoring us! |
They are not ignoring you (collectively) they're just making a commercial decision that you (collectively) are too much of a PITA to deal with. A room with twin or double bed in it can be only marginally larger than a single but generate so much more revenue plus 2 heads in the restaurant, guzzling wine or schnapps etc etc. Plus most singles end up doubling up with mates or pay underoccupancy so there are limited number of Greta Garbos out there they miss out on entirely.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just call their bluff, "No I don't want to pay any supplement. Sure I'm on my own but I don't mind sharing if some random wants the other bed." What are the chances someone else will want to book a chalet holiday to share?
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albinomountainbadger, it isn't a bluff.
you wol dnot be able to make a reservation.
fatbob, has it exactly right.
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You know it makes sense.
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fatbob, flangesax, of course I understand the commercial reasons behind it. But I can't help thinking that since more and more people are single/divorced/widowed, providers should recognise the business opportunity. It's expensive to install ramps/lifts, etc. for wheelchair users, it's expensive to buy cots, highchairs and equipment for children, but some providers do this so that they can attract business from these people. Single rooms are a rarity and almost always booked up way in advance, demand outstrips supply, so if providers had more single rooms, they might sell more rooms. Better to have a couple of single rooms with paying guests in them than an empty double/twin room.
I certainly don't begrudge paying extra if I am using a room for two (or more) people to myself, after all my 3-bedroomed house cost me the same to buy as it would have done for a family to buy. I don't even object to paying a small supplement for a largish single room. But I have in the past paid an extra £12 a night for a room that was barely more than a broom cupboard with a bed in it, wasn't impressed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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For me it is not so much sharing a room, but I am choosy who I share a bed with. I have lost count of the number of hotels we have stayed in where some of the men (for some reason it always the men) have had to share a bed.
But back to the OP I actually like to read rants. I may not agree with them but I like to know some people feel passionate about something that to me is trivial. The point (not well said in the original article) is that the press carries these articles about ridiculous chalets in the alps. We know it isn't like that but my friends and family who do not ski think that this is the lifestyle I am leading.
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Poster: A snowHead
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queen bodecia, you know I don't mind that much 
I think if I was building somewhere new I would include single rooms!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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flangesax, I know and I love your place. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
They are not ignoring you (collectively) they're just making a commercial decision that you (collectively) are too much of a PITA to deal with. A room with twin or double bed in it can be only marginally larger than a single but generate .... |
Well it's a market, but I agree with the original poster, in that it's probably taking too long to catch up with the demographics.
I don't care much about the total cost, but I really hate being gouged. So I avoid anywhere they penalize me for being alone.
I can book helicopter time in BC with accommodation.. and one person costs half what two people cost. I'm not a PITA to them, just a source of revenue. All the nice people win, how cool is that?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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IME hotel rooms throughout France and Italy (the only ones I''ve recent experience of) are sold as rooms. Most are doubles or triples, a very few are singles (because except in a broom cupboard you can always add a slightly bigger bed and call it a double) and the room cost is the room cost, regardless of how many people sleep in it. The slightly higher cost of washing more sheets and towels is no doubt outweighed by the likelihood of two people wanting two breakfasts, or dinners, or a drink in the bar before retiring.
Seems entirely reasonable to me. If I want a room to myself I have to pay for it and if I thought the penalty I was being asked to pay was unreasonable, I'd go elsewhere. Sharing is an option in some circumstances - but if someone demands a room to themselves (as I do these days, if only not to inflict my snoring on anybody) I really don't see why they should pay only half as much as two people sharing the identical room next door.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would like to see basic accomodation more comfortable and a little more spacious. Then luxury would be indeed that, rather than the only option for a good mattress and some extras!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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My basic requirements for a chalet: would be bed, ensuite shower/ loo and food.
However, what I would always pay a bit more for: bed with 100% cotton sheets and decent pillows (not one small rubbery cushion), proper sound insulation between bedrooms, ensuite bathtub, and chalet staff who can actually cook a proper tasty 3 course meal! An outdoor wooden traditional hot tub would be good too. And when I open my (currently fantasy) chalet company-that's what the guests will get. (And there will be room for singles at no extra cost!!)
I'm not bothered by "4 course meal with canapes" (never stayed in a chalet that offered that). The most depressing thing is a chalet co that tries to add a touch of "luxury" with silly branded toiletries, when the food is still crap! Don't like TVs at all either. In my experience nobody misses them if they are not there.
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I do see a lot of 'luxury' stuff in chalets which isn't worth the apparent price hike.
Item's such as L'Occitane toiletries, those awful slidey slippers, bathrobes, 'gourmet' cooking which just has some added weird ingredient that doesn't taste too good and could be dispensed with, a luke warm hot tub balanced on a deck next to the main road, garish wall hangings and oversized houseplants and a bunch of other trappings.
The actual quality of the chalet is usually not that great. Paper thin partition walls, bad lighting, overshared en suite bathroom, French plumbing, poor layout, lack of electrical sockets etc.
It seems to be the fashion to do out a quaint old building with a surface that looks like a luxury chalet, but without the actual build quality or useful features and then slap on a four star tag by offering fois gras and slightly bigger towels.
Possibly the companies can't admit that they would be unable to provide the holiday any cheaper owing to the hard bargain driven by the owners, vendors of chalets and so they have to tinsel up what is actually a seventies chalet experience with the wall knocked through to the bathroom.
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| Quote: |
Don't like TVs at all either. In my experience nobody misses them if they are not there.
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Somebody swore at me last week when she found that there wasn't a TV in her accommodation.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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No tv required, kids have iPads. Really don't need a tv on holiday.
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Time for another 'Telegraph Ski Rant'. It's ...
Dave Watts on 'piste gradings need sorting'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/features/10451787/Ski-rants-piste-gradings-need-sorting.html
Includes 'literary gem of the day' ...
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| A former art editor of this magazine learnt to snowboard in Obergurgl in Austria and was cruising down reds and tackling blacks by the end of his first week. Next season he went to Val d’Isère, headed straight for a red and nearly lost control of his bowels before he arrived, black and blue, at the bottom. It put him off boarding so much he moved to Hong Kong. |
Most people just switch to skiing!
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