 Poster: A snowHead
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Here's an interesting take on the arguments re airlines and ski gear:
http://www.caa.co.uk/ORS4No993
It allows the airlines to assume these weights for the purposes of loading the aircraft, rather than weighing them all individually.
The values:
"Schedule
Skis 12 kg
Boot bag 7 kg
Snowboard 17 kg
Any other item of checked baggage The standard mass for checked baggage applicable"
Paul.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And for the passengers???
Isnt it time that Airlines stop bloody worrying about the weight of the bags etc and starting putting a limit on the total of everything that enters the aircraft.
Last Saturday Ryanair were concerned that we were .7 of a kg overweight on our one checked in suitcase. So we offloaded and put some in the hand luggage. How anal is that, yet my wife is 9 stone plus and I`m 15 stone, but that's not an issue. Yet the next person could be 25 stone and have no suitcase, and its not even checked. Its a mad mad world we live in.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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How can skis/snowboard weigh 12/17 kg?? That's dangly bits. Probably only half that - has anyone actually weighed their kit??
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| boardiac wrote: |
| How can skis/snowboard weigh 12/17 kg?? That's dangley bits. Probably only half that - has anyone actually weighed their kit?? |
Rossignol technical specs for the Experience 88 ski - weight 4.7kg. I'm assuming that's for one ski. So 9.4kg plus say 0.5kg for a ski bag (may be 2kg for a hardshell ski bag plus 0.5kg for poles. Total around 10.4 - 12.4 kg.
So your probably right mostly dangley bits but not to far off.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
my wife is 9 stone plus and I`m 15 stone, but that's not an issue. Yet the next person could be 25 stone and have no suitcase, and its not even checked. Its a mad mad world we live in.
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there's presumably a weight assumption for passengers, too, to avoid their having to be weighed individually. Presumably, with so many heavier people around these days, that is a big higher than it was 20 years ago.
and I expect a lot of people shove a few extra bits in a ski bag. If only to wrap them round to protect the ski bindings.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
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my wife is 9 stone plus and I`m 15 stone, but that's not an issue. Yet the next person could be 25 stone and have no suitcase, and its not even checked. Its a mad mad world we live in.
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there's presumably a weight assumption for passengers, too, to avoid their having to be weighed individually. Presumably, with so many heavier people around these days, that is a big higher than it was 20 years ago. |
See Air Midwest Flight 5481 Crash. Quote "Although the pilots had totalled up the take-off weight of the aircraft before the flight and determined it to be within limits, the plane was actually overloaded and out of balance, due to the use of incorrect but Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)-approved passenger weight estimates. When checked, the National Transportation Safety Board found that the actual weight of an average passenger was more than 20 pounds (9 kg) greater than estimated. After checking the actual weight of baggage retrieved from the crash site, and passengers (based on information from next-of-kin and the medical examiner), it was found that the aircraft was actually 580 pounds (264 kg) above its maximum allowable take-off weight, with its center of gravity 5% to the rear of the allowable limit." 
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This is brilliant news! Double ski bag loaded up the max and they don't bother to weight it? Win!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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clarky999, if only, I don't think I've been on any flight that didn't weigh my ski bag. I've got lucky getting on a flight with 40kg of luggage and an extra bag without getting charged for it though. Which was nice.
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I know we pack our ski/board bags with all manner of other stuff and they've never been over 15kg! Board bag has boots in too, probably both ski jackets and at least a pair of salopettes. Ski bag will have 3 or 4 hoodies, another pair of salopettes, maybe something more.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My snowboard weighs a lot less than my skis, and nowhere near 17kg. On the other hand, you can stuff a board bag with lots more extra gear (boots, clothes, helmet, gaff tape, Nutella) than you can a rather narrower ski bag, so I suspect they are correct. You would expect them to know their business after all, innit.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Alastair Pink, that's interesting (not to mention sad). Doesn't surprise me in the least. I know nothing about the technicalities of aircraft but I used to fly out of a Caribbean airport where they often had to take off with a tail wind. The conditions made a big difference to the load that could safely be carried. sometimes they would announce the good news that we were en route for Bridgetown, with an ETA of whatever, along with the bad news that all the baggage had been offloaded. And I also know that altitude makes a big difference. When I was working in Kenya a small charter plane with a load of Americans which had taken off from Mombasa without incident crashed when they took off from Nairobi. Thin air but fat passengers. 
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| meh wrote: |
| clarky999, if only, I don't think I've been on any flight that didn't weigh my ski bag. |
Interesting, I've never been on one that did!
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You know it makes sense.
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jafa, they would love to do it actually, but it's currently not possible/feasible due to a number of reasons. Mainly because weighting everyone on check-in would be too expensive and time consuming and they are trying hard to reduce checkin costs by implementing self service/online check in. And there is no way they will trust passengers to weight themselves at SS check-in or enter weights manually online. Also installing weights everywhere is a hugely expensive exercise, which airports are not keen to fund.
And then there are technical issues. Feeding the weights onto airline check-in system, changing the check-in and weight&balance systems to actually support this and using it in calculations. Plus alter data exchange protocol for through-checkin (connecting flights). And then there are fundamental problems like what happens if incarriage flight doesn't support individual weights, or there are no weighting equipment in the port of origin. etc etc etc.
I don't think this will ever happen tbh... For now best they can do is statistical models based on origin/desination, season etc. Works pretty well by the way.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Works pretty well by the way.
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though not in the instance cited by Alastair Pink above.
I've been weighed for flights in small aircraft in the Pacific. And told which seat to sit in, to get the weight right.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I have been on several planes where you had to load the people from the front first and then the luggage so it didn't tip up and wreck the tail although none were on regular ski holiday routes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
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Works pretty well by the way.
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though not in the instance cited by Alastair Pink above.
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Tragic error, what can I say.
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I've been weighed for flights in small aircraft in the Pacific. And told which seat to sit in, to get the weight right. |
I can see why. Even on large aircraft it's prohibited to reseat the passengers during the flight, esp for take off/landing, even though their balance tolerance limits are way larger. For small and light ones displacing 50 kg can be fatal, so weighting everyone may well be a safety requirement in some jurisdictions... Don't know much about light aircraft w&b though - my initial post was about big ones.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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but the error was in the statistical model. People were fatter than the model assumed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| meh wrote: |
| clarky999, if only, I don't think I've been on any flight that didn't weigh my ski bag. I've got lucky getting on a flight with 40kg of luggage and an extra bag without getting charged for it though. Which was nice. |
I've only had my ski bag weighed when it was my only piece of baggage; seems to be what they're suggesting above though.
One of the great things about kayaking trips out of Aberdeen airport is that creekboats don't fit on their scales, so you can load them right to the brim.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Also, you may be carrying poles, avi probe and shovel handle with your skis. That often takes the weight up another couple of kilos.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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oleksii, I've often been re-seated during the flight, usually on request, sometimes at the steward[ee]s' suggestion.
My skis, bindings and bag (double) come in about 10kg.
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| oleksii wrote: |
I can see why. Even on large aircraft it's prohibited to reseat the passengers during the flight, esp for take off/landing, |
Interesting concept.
Not one any of the cabin crew seem to be aware of though, based on the number of times I have seen people change seats after take-off.
Obviously it is prohibited during take off and landing, because the passengers are all required to remain seated and belted during those phases.
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Samoa Air introduces 'XL' Class for larger passengers....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| musher wrote: |
oleksii, I've often been re-seated during the flight, usually on request, sometimes at the steward[ee]s' suggestion.
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Well they shouldn't, the loadsheet issued by the load control agent specifies how passengers are distributed across cabin trim zones and captain uses this info to derive the flaps settings. As I said, large aircraft are usually balanced to leave significant tolerances, but technically speaking reseating the passenger esp into different trim zone should not be allowed. This is not an issue when aircraft is airborne but during take off/landing this may cause issues like early rotation. They may not be critical/fatal for large aircraft, but airlines make lots of fuss about this.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Alastair Pink, I have weighed-in for a flight with Samoan passengers. Nothing like it for making you feel really good about your size. It's the opposite of shopping in Singapore, when you feel like a gigantic scarecrow compared to all the beautifully groomed little Chinese girls in the shops.
With very large people and (on the whole) very small planes that makes good sense for Samoa Air. You can't rely on statistical formulae for the weight of half a dozen passengers. I doubt, incidentally, if Samoa's obesity rate can compete with that of Nauru, which for some time held the record for the world richest (in GNP per capita), smallest and fattest nation.
The first time I flew into Nauru airport and headed for the ladies there were no locks on the doors. I wedged the door of my cubicle closed with a sweeping brush and sat there giggling to myself at the sight, in the world's richest country and pondering the unwisdom of using GNP per capita as a proxy for level of development.
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