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Toddlers in a ski back pack

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
flangesax, +1.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Put him in childcare on alternate weeks or only certain days, or just mornings or afternoons? I'm sure there must be a local creche of some kind that would do that. That way you can at least get some skiing done together.

Disclaimer: I actually have no idea if creches in such places would allow that, but I know nurseries here in the UK do as it's what we do with ours.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yeah it's black n white - any parent who has ever put their child in a backpack on snow is a reckless idiot

Here's some sucky parenting

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/254615-development-of-a-little-ripper
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flangesax wrote:
T Bar, trolling nonsense rolling eyes


I am most certainly not trolling, I just disagree with others views and consider some of the discussion frankly nonsense.

Firstly the stuff about what if you are hit.

Well no one can ever guarantee not getting hit but the risk is low. Furthermore the risk to the child when carried by an adult is likely to be far lower than to the child when skiing on his own. An adult will be able to assess others around them better is far less likely to make unpredictable turns that are unavoidable by a skier in semi control is far more visible than a child and is likely to bear the brunt of any collision thus protecting the child. If you are really so bothered about a child not getting hit on the slopes the answer is not to let them on the slopes, a child carried by an adult is likely to be at far less risk than a child skiing on their own skis.

Next carrying the child , people carry their kids all over the place on walks, in houses, on pavements when they are tired.
Nowhere is it suggested that this is dangerous and statistically it appears safe, the vast majority of childrens injuries are caused by children climbing on things and sometimes exposing themselves to falls from heights. A snowy surface to a competent skier used to the slopes with decent edges is not a high risk area furthermore by being carried firmly strapped to the back they are less likely to fall onto something dangerous than a stumble elsewhere.

Clearly carrying children on your back can be dangerous I would not condone humphing an infant around all day in bitterly cold conditions whilst attempting a rocky icy mogul slope for the beginner skier. Equally a gentle family potter around quiet slopes need be no more dangerous than a family walk in the woods.

Statistically children are far more likely to die in a RTA than being carried be parents but I don't see high levels of opprobrium being heaped on people proposing driving their kids over long distances on icy unfamiliar roads when tired but it is clear that this is what some people do. I don't wish to denigrate those who choose to drive a perfectly rational choice but then criticising other forms of behaviour for imaginary or at least vanishingly rare dangers is nonsense.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thanks for the replies everyone.

The toddler in the backpack is definitely a no go now everyone.

The reason for using the motorhome rather than renting somewhere small is that it's fully winterised with a generator etc and at 8.5m long feels reasonable spacious for us and the only way we can justify going for an extended period is if we keep the costs to a minimum. We have a portable bath for the lad and we have a drying area for wet clothes so all of those bases are covered.

After researching on here the Grand Massif has very reasonably priced season tickets and the free motorhome parking at Vercland near Samoens with water and waste facilities which would make the whole season very cost effective.

The thought of moving around and using the Tirol Snow card might be a little optimistic with a toddler though trying out all the different resorts would have been fun.

Thanks for the link SarahJ - the creches certainly look like an option, and at 30euros for a full day a lot better value than those we use in the Uk.

I've sent an email to the 'Garderie Les Petits Loups' to find out more information about their prices in Flaine thanks for the heads up mishmash.

I guess the next route I need to be looking at is where I can find reasonably priced childcare for a season - and then combine it with a good value lift pass.
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Powderpete, If you are looking at staying in Samoens then it's a bit of a trek around to Flaine to look for a nursery - especially in a campervan.

There is a nursery in the centre of Samoens which we used very successfully for our youngest: http://www.garderielesloupiots.com/en.html


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 5-10-13 8:09; edited 1 time in total
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Powderpete, the GM tickets are certainly good value, and Samoens would be an excellent base as it is at low altitude, a proper place, not just a ski station. Not to mention very attractive.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks pam and rob -
I'll give the nursery there a call to see if they give any discounts for longer stays.

The Maurienne valley might also be a good choice for motorhomes and creches and the lift ticket is also well priced.

Looks like the idea of a cost effective winter season with a toddler is not completely blown yet!
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T Bar, I'm in some agreement with you on this. Provided of course that all steps were taken to ensure risks were minimised.

What is the difference between sledging with your toddler sat in front of you (which most would do) and skiing with your toddler on your back - apart from sledging being considerably less easy to control or stop?
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Quote:

What is the difference between sledging with your toddler sat in front of you (which most would do) and skiing with your toddler on your back

A vertical drop of nearly two metres.
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Some people won't even take their iPhone on the slopes in case they fall and break it. I probably wouldn't want to carry a toddler about either. Put them with a ski nanny - they'll have a great time, you have a great time - win!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w wrote:
Powderpete, the GM tickets are certainly good value, and Samoens would be an excellent base as it is at low altitude, a proper place, not just a ski station. Not to mention very attractive.


+1. Also about an hour from Geneva. Chamonix , the Lake at Annency for non ski days. And not on a windy road, unlike Flaine.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

What is the difference between sledging with your toddler sat in front of you (which most would do) and skiing with your toddler on your back - apart from sledging being considerably less easy to control or stop?


Why don't motorbikes have seat-belts?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
flangesax wrote:
Why don't motorbikes have seat-belts?

To make it easier to separate the organ donor from the metal bits.

I have been carried in a backpack as a child when hillwalking, regularly ski with a heavy backpack now and don't fall outside race courses. I wouldn't ski around carrying a child though, I don't see what they would gain from the experience, I would just let one that age play in the snow
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
flangesax wrote:
...

Why don't motorbikes have seat-belts?


Maybe they will http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/honda-working-on-motorcycle-seatbelts/17602.html
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think we have all forgotten the most important question. Will your son be wearing a helmet?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ray Zorro, a piece not written by Honda from 2011.... nice find though!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hmm, kid in a backpack... Depends a bit on who and where. I don't fall during normal skiing, and at some of the small, quiet, basically locals only resorts around here I might consider it. I'd probably be more inclined to do some super gentle, almost crosscountry-style touring (obv nowhere near avi terrain). More for sharing the mountains with the kid than skiing pleasure, if that makes sense. On busy pistes in a real resort though? (Oh dear, I'm rather losing my cool - I think I might have wee-weed myself a little bit :oops:). Also I don't have kids and don't plan too for a good while yet, so appreciate feelings may well change on that matter.

2.5 years is too old/big for that anyway though, pretty much time to start sliding on their own at that point.
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Quote:

More for sharing the mountains with the kid than skiing pleasure, if that makes sense.

that makes perfect sense. I see quite a lot of families with toddlers walking in summer. Dad has a carrier on his back but the kids walk a bit, and get carried a bit. Would be super boring for a lively child of that age to be carried round with no chance to do his own thing.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Well I'm glad this topic appears to have moved on from the faintly absurd skiing with a child in a backpack is inherently very dangerous and should not be considered to the rather more reasoned when is it reasonable?

From walking with my own children I would say that each child is different in their appreciation of being toted in a back pack. My son would enjoy it for hours on end, chatting away about what he was seeing whereas my daughter tended to get bored a lot more quickly.

Personally if I was doing it skiing it would be to have family time with the children and show them things rather than for my personal skiing entertainment. I would not restrict it to only minor resorts though most of the resorts I have visited with my kids have lovely scenic areas with quiet runs and non challenging skiing.
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Okay

Well everyone has made it pretty clear here skiing with backpack is a bad idea, I can only agree but for another unmentioned reason at this point. We have a backpack for our toddler and I would highly recommend it we have used it loads to get her around the resort on foot, I would not ski with her in it though, because its not like skiing with a backpack where the weight stays where you put it. Our little munchkin gets all excited by the things around her and throws herself about which can throw you even when you are just walking. Maybe you are a good enough skier to deal with 2 stone plus of toddler throwing themselves around on your back but I know that if my little one got her timing wrong/right at a certain point in a turn I would stack it.

However I highly recommended taking a back pack and giving it a go getting your son ski-ing, we took my daughter out last year when she was 2yrs 2 months, now she is pretty physical (was walking before 1 etc so you have to use your judgement) and we had put her in ski's just to acclimatize her the previous time we went and she was great (put her in the ski, turned round to pick up my backpack and she was already shuffle walking away from me with a big smile on her face).

We took the backpack with us when we first took her out and did not use it, it was purely a safety net in case we had to walk back because she had flipped out halfway down the run, thank god she did not but I was glad that we had it with us.

As it was we went down the Green Proclou run at Avoriaz, it took us most of the morning (stopped at the little hut halfway down for elevenses) my daughter skied between her mums legs and on 4 glorious occasions was upright and confident enough that my wife let go and she skied solo for about 10 meters. We probably never got about 5 miles an hour and did a run that normally takes me 5 minutes in 3 hours, but I can honestly say best mornings ski-ing I have ever had soppy ol bug that I am.

When we got to the bottom the lifty was more than happy for her to go on the lift on her own, we used a tip from a ski vid I saw and we put her between my wife and I. I had the backpack on my lap, and my wife put her arm around my daughter, and her ski poles across in front held between her two arms, it effectively created a lift bar for her and she was going no-where at the top we got off without incident and got a clap from the top liftie for not making a a*se of it.

We did the whole thing again the next morning, great fun. In terms of skiing with a toddler, the sad reality is that while this was fun it was not proper ski-ing my wife and I took turns to go out in the afternoons and we put our daughter in childcare for a couple of morning so we could have a blat together.

Still getting your son on ski's as early as poss will help get you to the point where you can all enjoy skiing together quicker, my daughter will be 3 this season and she will be going to the childrens village in Avoriaz in the mornings and ski-ing with us (if she is not too tired) in the afternoons, by 5 I fully expect her to own me Smile
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gordonrussell76, great post Very Happy
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks Ray, I am in the process of cutting together footage of said run from my wifes helmet cam, but a combination of having to sift through the many minutes of her feet, and my slightly naff video editing skills means I am a long way from finished, however I will post a link here once I have it up on youtube, probably just as next season begins Smile
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gordonrussell76, fantastic snowHead

We started skiing with ours in a similar way - the only downside is in a few short years they will be out skiing you Laughing
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This was posted a while back:


http://youtube.com/v/Z_F01eV0Iqw
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gordonrussell76, +1

I use one of those backpacks to carry my 3 y.o. when we go hiking. Well actually he was just over 2 when I did it last time, because now he refuses to sit there for any longer than 2 minutes.

Anyway, when he was excited by something ("I want to catch that bird, let me down now!!!") and started to jump in the backpack, I could barely keep on my feet. And I'm a heavy guy at almost 100kg. Confident walker too Toofy Grin

No way I would ski with him in the backpack no matter how good I am.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My kids were docile in the backpack for the most part I would not hesitate to ski with them in the appropriate circumstances
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
That's a great post - Thanks gordonrussell76.

I'm still keen to head to the slopes but after contacting the creche in Samoens (Garderie Les Petits Loups) it looks like they wouldn't be able to give a seasonal place as they are already fully booked and the standard day rate is a little cost prohibitive for longer periods.

I'm not giving up though - and a little fun time on basic plastic skiis - and a fair amount of creche time has got to be feasible somewhere Smile
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I was having group ski lessons in alpe d'huez a few years ago, just about to do the black run with a tunnel. A guy with a toddler in a back pack was just about to start the run. We pointed this out to our instructor, who saw what he was doing, stopped him, gave him an almighty bollicking and sent him back down in the lift threatening to take away his pass for even considering the black run. I thought he was nuts!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

We pointed this out to our instructor, who saw what he was doing, stopped him, gave him an almighty bollicking and sent him back down in the lift threatening to take away his pass for even considering the black run.

Almighty bollickings are not normally conducive to people changing their behaviour, and might frighten a child being carried and as far as I am aware ski instructors have no power to take away lift passes. Your description of your instructors behaviour sounds appalling, even if the gentlemans trip was ill advised.
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T Bar, "ill-advised" is something of an understatement when it comes to doing the Tunnel while carrying a kid in a rucksack.
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Lizzard wrote:
T Bar, "ill-advised" is something of an understatement when it comes to doing the Tunnel while carrying a kid in a rucksack.

Even more reason not to indulge in counterproductive rants.
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altis, That is a sweet video, do you think they were ever to teach the kid how to turn?
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IMV, no teaching required - he's a natural born skier and will just do it.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
It saddens me to hear the amount of negativity individuals' are spewing regarding the idea of taking a toddler on the slopes in a rucksack. I've been doing this for years without issue, it is possible, without injury or harm coming to the wee child, poor thing.

In Vermont where I live, people regularly drive their children around in bicycles and motorcycles on the road with cars. Is this not just a dangerous if not more? Imagine what will occur when a dump truck rolls over you and your child.

If you're not a strong skier, don't risk it, otherwise use your judgement. Don't let these fear mongers run your life. Celebrate your freedom to do what you like before others' worry steals it from you.

Please, have fun with your kids before you die. Dress them in clothes, place gloves upon their wee hands, place a hat upon theirs heads and ski without worry. Every now and then make sure they are not dead. Place a helmet upon them if you are very concerned for their fate and ignore the petrified sheep that have condemned the idea of skiing with a person attached to you. We jump out of planes with people attached to us, drive in terrible conditions with our kids in the car, ride animals bareback, it's called adventure, the joy of life.

Go, have fun with your kids, don't listen to these people, they will only limit you, you are beautiful, you are a good parent, give your child the experience they deserve.
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This isn't a 'live free or die' moral philosophy choice, it's a mater of risk analysis. Skiing with a toddler on your back isn't some statement of freedom against the Forces of Darkness. You can bring up your kids to be happy and independent and self-sufficient, without necessarily taking stupid risks. In this case, it's simply not a good idea to ski with a toddler on your back - the downsides so hugely outweigh the upsides that I can't see the point. You are obviously thoughtful and committed parents and I'm sure your child will have a great time, and develop a sound degree of self-reliance and independence whatever other activity you engage in.
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I've done a fair amount of hiking with a toddler in a rucksack - no way would I ski with her in it. Ignoring the whole cold situation...

Issue 1 - the rucksack plus toddler weighs a fair bit and that load is high and far away from me so can exert a lot of force on me - she is much easier to manage in a back carry in a sling but that offers zero protection to her.

Issue 2 - cold wind makes her very cross - tantrum in rucksack is rather difficult to deal with as she thrashes around.

Issue 3 - most toddler rucksacks are long and stiff - quite awkward to move in.

Issue 4 - fitness - is the person doing the carrying used to the extra 18kg or so? And ski fit too?

Issue 5 - Getting toddler to accept being carried when there's something exciting underfoot!

Issue 6 - how many hats can you replace - mine is an utter got with hats - sometimes she waves it past your nose before disposal - more often you glance back and it's gone!
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Holy thread resurrection Batman.
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Here are our experiences of young ones in the mountains and the lessons we learned...

We took our 3 year old boy to La Rosiere last year, paid for ski lessons and he hated it, he cried for three hours non-stop until we came and rescued him and took him to Kindergarten where he could be in the warm and 'play' as he wanted to. Actually looking back now I think the experience has put him off and we will find it difficult to get him onto ski's at 4 years old this year.

We realised that actually it was us who wanted him to ski at such a young age and not him, so try not to force your aspirations onto your kids. And if you do try to get them ski-ing young then don't be disappointed if they reject the idea.
There are some amazing Kindergartens in the mountains although I can't speak for the exact resorts you're talking about.
What we found as lovely solution was to meet him at 2-3pm from Kindergarten and go running in the snow, sledging and playing snowballs then somewhere warm inside for the afternoon such as swimming. (Kids get cold very quickly).
He loved the ride up the mountain on the chairlift (there are no gondolas in La Ros so they slow the lifts down for pedestrians and walkers who want to get up the mountain); but he was just as happy to come back down again.

Check out the max altitude recommendation for your little 'un before heading up to a 3000m peak!

Good Luck, I hope you have a wonderful holiday Very Happy
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@djmatter, well put, it agree with your post about other people imposing their own risk profile and subsequent avoidance at any cost onto someone else for no good reason.

The following three posts just serve to illustrate that.
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