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What is a black run?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
ansta1, Laughing Laughing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
landlockedpirate wrote:
northernsoulboy wrote:
Oh, I hate Santons - I don't personally find it particularly difficult, but it's always full of people struggling in the cruddy bottleneck at the bottom, and is littered with mud and rocks and gloves and little frozen puddles of salty tears.
La Face is a fairly easy run IMO. As someone above says, the challenge is to get down without stopping, which as I get older I find harder.


Agree with this completely, I stumbled on 'Le face' on virtually the 1st run of the week on holiday in Tignes this year, it was nicely pisted, soft snow and a really pleasant ski from top to bottom, I didn't even realise it was black.

I hit Santons in the afternoon, sun was out, snow was soft and the piste was carnage, it took nearly an hour to pick our way down round the hundreds (thousands ?) of people littered all over it. Easily my least favorite run of the week. It's a shame, I bet it would be fantastic if it was less busy, but at least the restaurant at the bottom was very good Very Happy


Which is why I always ski Epaule du Charvet...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
dsoutar, +1. Partly because I have never known Santons open
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under a new name,
Quote:

Far more fun to enter from the couloirs to skier's left.



yep +1 did that back in 1983 with a group of German lads I met in resort, who knew the area very well, was much more fun than the clear ice at the top the day before where 3 of my lot turned round and walked out!!!
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Kel wrote:
If you look at that video closely, you can in the shadow that the jacket is gaping open. Good look along with the helmet cam.

I cannot see the point in choosing to do runs like that if like me you are not capable of skiing it


Am I missing something (don't answer that) but does this mean you can only ski a run like that with your jacket done up?

PS If so, how else do I get my hairy chest and medallion out for the girls (seems a shame just to keep it just for Apres Ski)
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dsoutar wrote:


Which is why I always ski Epaule du Charvet...


Yep, so do I if over that side. But then occasionally you think, I'll have a look at santons and then wonder why. Or you're with someone who goes left instead of right at the top, despite you yelling at them.

The Wall is a proper black, in anyone's book.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB wrote:


Am I missing something (don't answer that) but does this mean you can only ski a run like that with your jacket done up?



I wondered that - guessing but is it chances of falling = > (say) 10%, so you are likely to end up covered in snow and ice and possibly cut to bits by rocks, whereas your jacket would have offered some protection.

I wonder how many people ski the Wall - and I don't mean traversing and side slipping - without a helmet Toofy Grin
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

how else do I get my hairy chest and medallion out for the girls (seems a shame just to keep it just for Apres Ski)

That's a euphemism I haven't heard before.
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I was actually reffering to this and not a pork medallion.



.... anyway back on topic to black runs
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Skiing in Italy (MdC) for the first time this year I was interested to see that at the top of each piste was a board that listed not just the colour and name of the run but also the length, average gradient and maximum gradient. Really useful stuff. I was wondering if they now do that elsewhere too.
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foxtrotzulu, there are signs like that in La Thuile too. But not over the border in La Ros.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
A few geographical definitions

Black Run (Austria) - Steep, pisted and polished to a shine, just like a red only more boasting points
Black Run (France) - I can't be naffed to piste this bit.
Black Run (Scotland) - rarely seen, possibly mythical beast lurking in the mist somewhere between the rocks and the cliff edge

In one small German resort I was presented with a choice between black markers and black markers with a skull and crossbones marking the "Kamikaziabfarht". It looked rather like the wall in PBs vid (alright not quite so long but long enough standing at the top. Toofy Grin )

Incidentally I am not sure about posting gradients and so on. It is only a small step to Ontario style madness. Seen at the entrance to s designated "glade run" - WARNING - TERRAIN MAY CONTAIN TREES
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One of my fave chairlifts anywhere has a Black Skull & Crossbones sign at the bottom, a further written warning sign in the middle of the liftline shuffle saying Advanced and Expert terrain only "There is no easy way down" and usually a flashing strobe warning of potential avy, severe weather etc etc.

Every day you still see someone trying to negotiate with the lifty for a ride back down (no downlift) or stranded despondent on the unpisted slope. Conclusion - people are muppets.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
fatbob wrote:
One of my fave chairlifts anywhere has a Black Skull & Crossbones sign at the bottom, a further written warning sign in the middle of the liftline shuffle saying Advanced and Expert terrain only "There is no easy way down" and usually a flashing strobe warning of potential avy, severe weather etc etc.


My favourite is one where they have a row of gibbets containing the bodies of various skiers who tried and failed to get down, in varying stages of decomposition.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
northernsoulboy, Laughing There's a black run in Notre Dame de Bellecombe which has warning signs at the top saying it's only for "very good" skiers. I avoided it for years, fearing the ignominy of coming a cropper on it and being shipped off with people nudging themselves and pointing "and she thought she was very good rolling eyes ".

When I did eventually ski it, one day when the moguls weren't too big, I "got down" it OK, no worse than most of the othes on the slope and better than some. A tiny handful were skiing it well and fluently. The alternative is a lovely long wide sweeping cruisy blue piste which is, frankly, more enjoyable. I was pleased I'd done it, but had no big yearning to do it again.
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At Arapahoe Basin there was a sign saying 'Warning Avalanche Forecasting is an inexact science' ....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Something I won't voluntarily ski down unless I have been able to size it up from a distance and top to bottom first and it needs to have decent snow on it.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

It's not a very good picture, but this short section was the very first black marked run that I ever skied. It had rather better hero type snow on it when I skied it!!
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I'm not sure how the status of your jacket zip affects anything, perhaps it's a fashion issue?

Obviously the "grade" covers a multitude of sins. I'm not sure if there's a formal definition, but if there is then it's clearly not followed. But then you may think that there would be a formal definition of something as simple of total piste length, but if there is then that's not followed either.

Out in the real world, grading pistes seems to have a couple of purposes:
(1) To help people avoid going somewhere they don't want to go.
(2) Marketing, as in: "our resort may be small but we still have tough runs"; or "it may be my first week on snow but I rode a black run".
Sometimes those conflict.

I think it's a bit like people who grade their on-snow ability using some sort of scale; if you're much bothered about it then you're probably not at either end of the scale.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

http://youtube.com/v/wxLvp1MXcoA
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DB wrote:
Kel wrote:
If you look at that video closely, you can in the shadow that the jacket is gaping open. Good look along with the helmet cam.

I cannot see the point in choosing to do runs like that if like me you are not capable of skiing it


Am I missing something (don't answer that) but does this mean you can only ski a run like that with your jacket done up?

PS If so, how else do I get my hairy chest and medallion out for the girls (seems a shame just to keep it just for Apres Ski)


Possibly, the jacket is totally undone flapping about in the wind, not a particularly good look along with the top mounted helmet cam. Especially on someone who is not capable of skiing that piste as in the video, not that I could do it any better, but as I say by choice I wouldn't.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Also ski a black run in some NA ski areas. Explode the easy skiing myth. Lake Louise in CN for example.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
What black should mean is that it's difficult for your level of ability and often where lack of technique comes out in all it's shapes and forms

Whats black on one day can be blue on another, its all down to time of day, snow conditions and busyness of the piste. I've often found its skiers in your way stopping you pick your best line or upset your rhythm create the most difficulties
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Black is black
I want my baby back.
It's grey, it's grey,
since she went away

Oh-oh, what can I do??
'cause I-I-I-I-I,
I'm feelin' blue.
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Kandehar in Les Houces is black. There are about 3 scary turns for the less confident along with several signs stating 'experts skiiers only'. One small pisted steep bit. Most of it is challenging blue/cruisey red.



I did ski one run in the states somewhere that had skull and crossbones flags on the piste markers. It was wide, straight and pisted, but from what I could see when I opened my eyes, a stumble could very well result in a need for a parachute. Smile You know when you are standing upright, your left leg is fully extended, your right ski is touching your testicles and your right shoulder is touching the snow.....That was a proper black
Evil or Very Mad
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