Filthyphil30k, reactive armor should get you moving pretty quickly, possibly in new and exciting directions, and possibly in several at the same time!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I do like the three inch gash on the back of my mates helmet due to the time he fell and his gf skied across it. Now that would have been very messy without one. I've had one extremely hard flip back when hitting a bump in bad vis that really cracked my head sharply into an icy piste; I believe that the lid did reduce the impact quite a bit. But I also ski a lot of forests and rocky gullies so it is more the glancing blow likely to cause lacerations that I am worried about.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Richard_Sideways wrote:
Filthyphil30k, reactive armor should get you moving pretty quickly, possibly in new and exciting directions, and possibly in several at the same time!
Sounds like I would be going to fast and out of control, should I have my iPod turned to max as well?
Would armour be better than lessons? As an investment? And most importantly does it look cool?
I do wear them sometimes though from peer group pressure.
really?
Yep, family all keen on me wearing them .
Yep, me too. Oddly, I learnt without one, but once we got on mountains my wife started saying I needed to wear one all the time, think that was around the time Liam neesons wife was killed too
It has of course - not that I would admit saved me at least a very nasty headache which is a good reason the wear one. That and the fact the I generally stop myself with my head
Mine was a nice cheaply one from whistler that makes me look like a cannonball...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
All your helmet AND armour needs solved in one purchase:
Even if you have a 10 yr old helmet that has sat in the sun all day, it will still be far better at preventing head injury than not wearing one IF your head hits something hard.
Do helmets help reduce / prevent head injury IF your head hits something hard? YES! you don't need any statistic study to prove this, rather like asking "will I get wet if I jump in a swimming pool?".
Do helmets prevent / reduce head injury whilst skiing?, not such a simple question
I don't wear one because I really hate wearing any type of hat, especially when doing some kind of physical activity, i wish I could get away with wearing a helmet as there have been a few times there has been an interesting route through the rocks but I have followed a less risky route due to my lack of protection, I also worry about offpiste if I should get caught in an avalanche, the thought of icy snow packed around my bare noggin!. Did someone say risk compensation doesn't exist?.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Jeezuz: Not another 5 page Helmet Thread. Ski-accident rates are in parts per hundred thousand. Head injuries are in the parts per million. They are only good to 25 KpH. Wear a helmet on yer knee 'cause yer knee will get it first. People make other people wear helmets so that they don't have to feel guilty and they can seek some solace in the crappy phrase: 'At least he was wearing a helmet'. This phrase is right up there for the loser under the avi-debris that some turkey above cut loose: ' At least he died doing something he loved'. Ski smart and obey physics: F=Ma. Avoid ski-career ending leg injuries. Watch out for over-the-shoulder-skis in lift lines. Wear a helmet while you drive to your favourite resort on winter roads.
After all it is free
After all it is free
talking of avalanches.........5.4.3.2.1.........
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Hitler set off my avalanche
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Filthyphil30k wrote:
What other body armour should I be thinking about so I can really go fast!!
This should be useful - would work for an avalanche as well
How about we get a large number of skiiers to sign up to some information sharing internet thingy, then give them a space to discuss injuries and rehab. After a couple of years someone can count up the number of head injuries. We would probably need 35k plus people to sign up
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thornyhill, OT That's interesting, maybe a bit OTT, however, I could see M/cycle riders wearing the same sort of inflatable jackets that horse riders can get which are triggered when the rider parts company with the horse - they don't protect arms and legs but might prevent a whole load of other injuries to the upper body.
I think the problem with equiv. systems for skiers is that it must be difficult to get them to deploy automatically. With a horse riding jacket the trigger is attached to the saddle - part company from the saddle and the trigger is pulled for the inflation. The trouble with a skiing crash is that nothing consistently parts company - even the skis can stay on, and for some people crashing seems an occupational hazard and often more minor (boarders spring to mind and park rats) they would be constantly needing new trigger cans and repacking which could come expensive) even if an effective trigger could be found. It seems the skier is therefore left with the deployment of rather more manual methods of safety like helmets, and fixed body armour if they feel the need for such devices.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
2 to 3 years? Shite, better wash my beanie.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Megamum, would it not be better for the scare mongers to focus on some sort of wearable comfortable protection for knees. I know people personally who have died from head injuries in car, bike and horse accidents (and bicycle.) I have yet to have personally known someone who suffered brain trauma or death from a ski accident where a helmet would have made a difference. Sure - it happens, but then pedestrians should really be walking round in full bike leathers, boots with Titanium shin plates, full face helmets and back protectors. I do know 3 people who have suffered neck injuries from falling backwards wearing ski helmets. Your skull is much stronger than your neck, but the helmet serves to transfer the impact from your strong skull to your relatively weak neck. It isn't a skinflint thing or a comfort thing. I will happily spend 30 minutes climbing into 2 grands worth of bike gear that stops me from being able to walk. I've tested it a few times and it works.
For a ski helmet to work you need to hit the ground head first at a fair rate of knots. How many times have you fallen and landed head first? Natasha Richardson didn't die because she wasn't wearing a helmet. She died because she banged her head and refused treatment. If she had been wearing a helmet she would have been getting treated for a broken neck instead.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thornyhill wrote:
If she had been wearing a helmet she would have been getting treated for a broken neck instead.
You sure? I thought it was a fairly mild impact.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mosha Marc, From what I read she fell over backwards. You can break a neck fairly easily. Takes a fair whack to create an epidural haematoma as all the bits inside the skull are soft and tend to cushion each other. It probably wasn't a mild impact. (Try driving your car at 5MPH and jumping on the brakes as hard as you can...fairly brutal stop.)
Even with the best motorcycle helmet, if you hit something head first at 20 MPH you are probably dead. A motorcycle helmet saves you by taking the minor knocks and the bounce on the ground, then stopping the tarmac from abrading through your skull and letting out the soft bits.
Undoubtedly Scott McCarthy benefited from his helmet, but he didn't hit the ground head first and his head was travelling directly towards the ground, so the speeds quoted are irrelevant.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
They are only good to 25 KpH.
This is CEN1077 again
Why does it only work up to 25kph/12mph? Because thats the speed it'll hit the floor at from the 1.5m static drop test done during the CEN1077 certification.
CEN1077 sets out the minimum performance of a helmet, NOT the maximum, NOR does every manufacturer build only to just pass CEN1077.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
My other half took a dim view of my offer of a helmet for Christmas, and told me she does not want to look a ####. Edit for sensitive types.
Obviously I used the wisdom from this thread , and the other 400 to convince her she needs one.
Bode Swiller, was not the C word. But your point is valid, who does need one?
Only the nice, polite, smart people. Obviously I don't wear one. It's natural selection dontcha know.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I HATE to join this argument but...,
Maybe it's just me but I have never met a top skier (racer, Freerider or freestyler) who does not support wearing a helmet.... I know lots (including myself though i am far from a "top skier") who accept the risk for practicality and comfort especially on powder, but none has ever said to me that helmets are a bad idea when snow gets harder!
There must be some out there, do you think they are just making a bigger noise because it goes against the common way of thinking (like creationists for example )
After all it is free
After all it is free
Filthyphil30k wrote:
... who does need one?
an excellent question. Well, technically, nobody. But practically, racers and freestylers and those who haven't acquired the knowledge/skill to keep themselves out of harms way. What amazes me every time I go skiing, is that there are parents who stress about their kids wearing lids and then proceed to take them down the middle of an icy, overcrowded home run where they are sitting ducks. It's not just their head that's in peril so, in that instance, choice of terrain is a more important safety factor than if they are wearing a helmet.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
At least shes honest in her reasoning. You do look a bit of a #### sitting in the trauma centre with sick down your front because you've had your bell rung after smacking your head on another skier and then a hard piste, and a nurse poking drugs up your bum because you can't keep anything down.
You feel a bit #### when you're handed the bill at the medical centre for the X-Rays, MRI and the overnight stay which cost more than double what you spend on your trip.
You also look a bit of a #### looking out of your window at the other people on the slopes when you're stuck in the hotel as you've been diagnosed with a concussion and told you can't do anything which could cause you another head injury for another 3 weeks.
You feel a bit of a #### when your friends tell you that the doc said that if you'd been wearing a lid, you wouldn't be in this situation - the doc told you too but it was during the big black void of time you still can't remember to this day.
Fortunately this is all anecdotal so can be filed under the catagory of ####.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Richard_Sideways wrote:
and a nurse poking drugs up your bum
.
So not all bad news.
You seem to feel strongly about this. You obviously wear a helmet, does everyone you ski with use them?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
northernsoulboy wrote:
blahblahblah - to be fair, I suspect those who don't wear helmets are usually a mix of very good skiers who grew up not wearing them
But each to his or her own.
There's folks who get reeled in by the marketing & trends (I must have one of them) & then there are folks who are not that fickle or insecure.
Ear Piercings
Tattoos
v
v
v
v
Mountain Bikes ( City folk)
Helmets
BackPacks,shovels,probes (Piste grinders)
Go Pro Cameras
Ask yourself are you one of them?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Bode Swiller, +1
I don't wear a helmet, but haven't ruled out the possibility at some time in the future. Mrs Ansta1 will be wearing from this season following a spill earlier this year when she took a bit of a bump to the head which made her feel a little sick for a while. Junior1+2 Ansta1 have always worn helmets and they would not be allowed on the slopes without them, but as they have always worn one (as do pretty much everyone else of their age) it's the norm for them so they think nothing of it. In the same way that they always wear helmet and back protectors when riding, be it in the indoor school, out on a hack or over the cross country jumps. This causes occasional moans form the eldest when we ride on Holiday and 90% of the other riders choose not to (as they are not always compulsory) but it's simple. Helmet/ Back protector and ride or don't ride.
My reasons for not wearing a helmet are mine, but they are primarily around my risk perception based on where and how I ski and my comfort. A helmet is certainly going to stop or at least reduce any damage in an impact where there would be any damage to the noggin, of that there is absolutely no doubt.
I may well choose to wear a helmet in future but for now I am comfortable with my favourite (mostly unwashed) beanie I bought in Les Arcs in 2007.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Richard_Sideways wrote:
You do look a bit of a #### sitting in the trauma centre with sick down your front because you've had your bell rung after smacking your head on another skier and then a hard piste...
The reason you look a #### is because you lost control in the first place and you've injured someone else.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Here's a related point. I happen to work at a location (below) where - for 37 years - skateboarders have skated and fallen on raw (or more recently graffitied) concrete, with their heads snaking between thick concrete pillars. Spot the helmets. Don't know the head injury count. Are these skaters stupid, or would their risk compensation (risk taking) be affected if they wore them? This is reckoned to be a factor in skiing too ... we need to constantly monitor the incidence of serious head injuries as helmet purchasing goes up [it's recently been reported that they have not decreased] ...
You do look a bit of a #### sitting in the trauma centre with sick down your front because you've had your bell rung after smacking your head on another skier
Glaswegians eh
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
You feel a bit #### when you're handed the bill at the medical centre for the X-Rays, MRI and the overnight stay which cost more than double what you spend on your trip.
You mean you don't have to have insurance if you are wearing a helmet
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Filthyphil30k, Most do - some because of the event described. Happened in 2000 in Mammoth, on a thursday, around 11am. The unfortunate was a friend who was having a freestyle lesson. Collided with another rider who poached a kicker next to the one he was on, and came off at a bad angle, landing into him.
My friend was heavily concussed, the other guy a seasonaire from NZ who fractured his skull and had to be air-lifted out to Los Angles.
I bought one day one of the next years trip and have worn ever since; I needed it in 2004.
If people don't want to wear one, I have no problem with that, its a matter of personal choice, I don't preach use, I won't refuse to ride with someone who chooses not to wear a lid like some do. But I do get annoyed when people trot out these techno reasons like the 25kph CEN test as to why wearing one is pointless. Frankly, I have more respect for your OH for saying 'No, they look stupid' than I do for people like that.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum wrote:
Thornyhill, OT That's interesting, maybe a bit OTT, however, I could see M/cycle riders wearing the same sort of inflatable jackets that horse riders can get which are triggered when the rider parts company with the horse - they don't protect arms and legs but might prevent a whole load of other injuries to the upper body. .
That being said, I'd not use an airbag jacket for most of my riding, as you expect to come off the bike when trail riding or off-road racing, and it would be pointless if it inflated after every minor tumble, but there would be some benefit in higher speed road riding incidents.
Here's a related point. I happen to work at a location (below) where - for 37 years - skateboarders have skated and fallen on raw (or more recently graffitied) concrete, with their heads snaking between thick concrete pillars. Spot the helmets. Don't know the head injury count. Are these skaters stupid, or would their risk compensation (risk taking) be affected if they wore them? This is reckoned to be a factor in skiing too ... we need to constantly monitor the incidence of serious head injuries as helmet purchasing goes up [it's recently been reported that they have not decreased] ...
I think you'll find if you go down to any skate park, most of the skaters, BMXers, roller-bladers and scooters will be wearing helmets. Also, using a production film isn't really a good example. You don't see the hours of training done prior to the filming, and whether or not a helmet was worn for all of that and only not worn for the final shoot. I'm not saying it was or wasn't, just that we don't know and it's a poor example.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
stanton wrote:
northernsoulboy wrote:
blahblahblah - to be fair, I suspect those who don't wear helmets are usually a mix of very good skiers who grew up not wearing them
But each to his or her own.
There's folks who get reeled in by the marketing & trends (I must have one of them) & then there are folks who are not that fickle or insecure.
Ear Piercings
Tattoos
v
v
v
v
Mountain Bikes ( City folk)
Helmets
BackPacks,shovels,probes (Piste grinders)
Go Pro Cameras
Ask yourself are you one of them?
I don't have ear (or any) piercings, tattoos, shovels etc, or a Go Pro camera (though I have rented one to film my kids skiing).
I do have a mountain bike, but I live in the country.
I do wear a helmet and as I've said I'm pretty sure it saved my life, or at least saved me from very serious injury. (There's a half-inch deep crease in it right at the base of my skull.)
I don't care even a tiny bit what other people do, hat-wise - in fact, more people braining themselves is good for me, as the slopes are emptier.
Well I was there on a snowheads bash when Duke caught an edge on a fast blue and just flicked forward banging his temple on the piste. Blood, unconsciousness, stretcher evacuation, concussion, partial blindness, 2 or 3 days in hospital. It was very serious. I believe he did buy a helmet after that episode.
As said though, for many skiers there is minimal risk of a head injury. If you like to hit high speeds, play in the park, ski forests and jump rocks then they are probably a damn good idea.
I'm hoping the snow comes soon so I can stop talking about bloody helmets
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
This is 90% about learning to ski with skill levels that reduce the risk of falling - and hitting objects - to very low levels. 10% about helmets.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
Here's a related point. I happen to work at a location (below) where - for 37 years - skateboarders have skated
1977, the year of the skate board. Top stuff Dave.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Helmets were certainly an issue in the first summers of skateboarding (I was working in Alpine Sports - predecessor of Snow+Rock - during the initial skateboard boom, 1976 onwards, before joining Skateboard! magazine) ...
... we stocked cheap ice hocket helmets for the kiddies, and all parents snapped them up.
But many/most early action photos of skaters show naked heads. Most skating at Southbank today is without helmets. Skaters are just as intelligent as skiers ... some choose to wear them, some don't.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
that makes me look like a cannonball...
)
