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Avalanche/off-piste training

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
All, any recommendations for somewhere to learn this stuff in the Portes Du Soleil. I have never had any training, and am about to spend a season there - and want to be as safe as possible on the mountain, and learn new skills etc...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Perhaps there will be someone along who knows. Meanwhile we had a thread on books to read, and whenever you ski with a guide, ask them to explain why they avoided certain slopes and skied others. (Of course this will often have to do with snow quality rather than avalanche danger, but there is no harm in knowing that too!)

Edit: You also mention "off-piste training". Not sure what you include in that?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
thank you _ I meant learning about snow conditions, terrain, how weather affects risk off-piste etc. some actual skiing training would be good too - but more focussing on "snowcraft"...
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Have you skied off piste before? Do you have a transceiver, probe and shovel? If I was you, I would be looking to make connections, preferably with some decent, sensible and knowledgable off piste skiers, but also perhaps like minded adventurers. I would then learn on the job as it were. Taking advice, looking at the weather forecast, snow conditions. If you read up before hand about how the snow pack builds, terrain traps, etc. There are some specific courses in some places but I've no idea if there are any where you are going. Oh, and you need to find somewhere to practice the use of the transceiver. Here and in the mountains.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I have skiied plenty in the "sidecountry" and very happily have spent time in powder (10 year skier, probably about 20 weeks or so by now), but never gone into the proper backcountry or done any touring i.e. anything that requires real hiking - which I would like to do. Thanks for the advice - worth me buying a transceiver in the UK, or does it make little difefrence in resort?
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
maybe these guys will be able to help:

http://avalancheacademy.com/courses.asp
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
When you say you are spending a season out there. Is that purely skiing or are you working? Will you have transport?

Going out with a good guide can be a real help. They can tell you about the area, places to be wary of, when is a good time to go to certain areas. They can also teach you about the snow pack, what to look for and give technique tips. Even if you only do the odd day it would be worth it.

I did an introduction to touring course many years ago. Unfortunately I haven't toured since. But it was a great course. That was in Switzerland though but I am sure you can find something near to you. Though tbh if I was out for the season I'd probably just do some day tours with a guide and learn that way.

I don't think it matters too much whether you buy ava gear or in the mountains but it may be easier while you have the time to shop around here. If you are going to do a lot of off piste you may want to consider an airbag. Again it may be easier to sort all that out now. Once you are out there it would be nice to be set and get straight on!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
A quick search led me to this ....
http://www.portesdusoleil-outdoor.com/#/hiveren/3866431

Do the french have an equivalent of the BMC, Alpinverein or DAV i.e. a mountaineering club that offers ski tours?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
DB wrote:
A quick search led me to this ....
http://www.portesdusoleil-outdoor.com/#/hiveren/3866431

Do the french have an equivalent of the BMC, Alpinverein or DAV i.e. a mountaineering club that offers ski tours?


Yes, the CAF.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Also check out 'Free Skiing' by Jimmy Oden as useful background info before you do a course
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Harry Flashman,
Quote:

worth me buying a transceiver in the UK, or does it make little difefrence in resort?



I dont know that area very well, but funny enough I can sort out the transceiver and gear side of things for you, which TBH you should be using even if your side country skiing Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
livetoski - thabnk you: link or pm? I know nothing about these things, so some education before buying would be good...
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
PM or drop me a mail via the snowshepherd link happy to help out
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
For a fully qualified guide try contacting Reflex ski school. they are based in la Plagne centre. Also ESF belle Plagne used to have an 'old' guide working for them. Ps this info is from some years ago and arrangements may have changed by now. Pps if you go on the snow reports weather thread for la Plagne you will find a few friendly locals who may have the latest beta on guides.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
PP wrote:
For a fully qualified guide try contacting Reflex ski school. they are based in la Plagne centre. Also ESF belle Plagne used to have an 'old' guide working for them. Ps this info is from some years ago and arrangements may have changed by now. Pps if you go on the snow reports weather thread for la Plagne you will find a few friendly locals who may have the latest beta on guides.


Bit of a long way from the Portes du Soleil though?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Harry Flashman, have you skied mostly in North America? Side country and Back Country are a US term and means nothing in Europe. In Europe there is a huge amount of lift-served off piste skiing and officially none of it is avalanche patrolled (though in practice they do set off avalanches in some places - mostly, of course, where the resulting avalanche might affect a piste).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowball - Skiied mostly in Europe, and lots in the US too; but have an American other half, and seem to have adopted her terminology.

Damn.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
sah, Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed i should really refrain from posting after a bottle of wine.
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PP wrote:
sah, Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed i should really refrain from posting after a bottle of wine.


I know the feeling...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
In Les Deux Alpes the Tourist Office do a Free Respect day (which is free with all gear provided ) once a week. Morning of theory and practise in the tranceiver park followed by an afternoon with a guide. Worth looking if there's anything similar in PDS.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Try this for Morzine mountain guiding: http://www.morznet.com/ski/guides.html Why not email some of them and ask.
And this about the off-piste http://www.morznet.com/ski/area/off-piste.html
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
snowball wrote:
[In Europe there is a huge amount of lift-served off piste skiing and officially none of it is avalanche patrolled (though in practice they do set off avalanches in some places - mostly, of course, where the resulting avalanche might affect a piste).


In France, each resort has a PIDA (Plan d'intervetion du Declenchement des Avalanches) which the pisteurs work to to make the resport safe. This will include risks to the pistes and commonly-accessed (or readily-accessible) off-piste routes. As a 'rule of thumb' they work hard to make safe stuff that's accessible without hiking and not roped off. There's good reason for this - they don't want a reputation for their guests regularly being killed for skiing between the pistes and close by,

But agree with Snowball, that it's hard to classify any of this as 'official' despite the existence of an official document (the PIDA). Another 'rule of thumb' is that if a lift is not opened yet after a dump, they have not yet completed their PIDA work. Using devious routes into such areas not recommended (Mad Nancroix Canadian Boarders please note!).

If you are caught in an avalance outside the PIDA that has a 'poor outcome' whether the area was in or out is often used in court as one of the factors leading to a prosecution.

http://www.toraval.fr/livre/chap13.pdf

Anyone know where to get hold of Les Arcs' PIDA... Puzzled
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've never seen the PIDA (though I've heard of it). Where can you get a copy?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I've failed to lay my hands on one so far... will keep trying!
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
If the PIDA is not publicised and easily obtainable (and it isn't) I don't understand how areas being inside or outside it can be a factor in prosecutions.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
That's a good point... But a peruse through the judgement summaries in the link shows they are taken into account. Most cases seem to be brought against people who are in positions of responsibility (guides, instructors) - I wonder if they would have access to the doc? Or take part in briefings each season from the pisteurs / resort managment? The more you and I debate it snowball, the more I'd like to actually see one!

Just had a thought on this though - I heard that a neighbour in Nancroix last year was training to become a pisteur. If I bump into him this season I will press him for more info.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Can't remember if I've posted this link before but this is a good intro to off piste & avalanche safety information.

http://www.ortovox.com/xfiles/Flippingbook/Safety-Academy-Guide-Book/English/HTML/
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Wow, what a great little digest. Might be just the sort of thing that john1231 is looking for ... ?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
bobski62, are you sure about how much offpiste is covered by the PIDA? I'd certainly expect slopes directly above pistes to be covered, but would be very surprised if pretty much everything lift-served is; surely the classification of 'offpiste' means it's not their responsibility to rope it off/secure it, unless a slide would endanger pistes/property/etc below?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Hi clarky999, no, I'm not sure at all! Hence wanting to get hold of one. But I do think that resorts have a responsibility to make safe what's easily accessible or alert (read rope off with warnings) what's easily accessible but 'out of bounds' 'cos they don't bomb it. One reason for lifts remaining closed for longer than you might like after a big dump. In my view, it's about duty of care towards their clients who will go off piste where there are easy opportunities.

Let me press the locals and the pisteurs this season and come back to the subject if they are forthcoming.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi there

We have three avalanche safety courses timetabled for the Portes du Soleil this winter. Currently, 11,15,22 Jan. More details at http://www.avalancheacademy.com.

We will also be giving two free lectures at Beanies cafe in Morzine in December. Dates TBC shortly.

Have a safe season
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Avalanche Academy, can you add anything about PIDA (or any equivalent in other countries) to the discussion?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Avalanche Academy, thank you. I'll have a look at the site and get in touch.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Regarding the PIDA, every responsible ski area has an avalanche safety plan. The names differ from country to country, but essentially the head pisteur in charge of safety usually devises a plan. The plan includes areas likely to be high risk due to certain weather conditions, and the best way to reduce risks (whether by GasEx blasting, hand charges, or other methods). There will also be a plan for monitoring risks once the resort is open, in case conditons change. Unfortunately, the standard way for many resorts in Europe to reduce risk is to simply close lifts, thereby denying access to those risky slopes, until the risk has been reduced. No matter what signs people put up, or cordons across slopes, if a lift is open people will usually ski everything accessible off that lift.

PIDAs are not usually published, but ski patrol offices are usually happy to discuss how they control the slopes with any visitors. They would much rather help you stay safe, than dig your body out later in the day.

Hope everyone has a safe season.....
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