 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all, quick question to see if anyone has any thoughts on this.
I have K2 Rictor 2011/12 model with Marker Mx bindings. I bought the 181cm model as was advised this was the correct length for my height and weight 6'2 and 16 stone.
I have skied it for 2 seasons and have struggled with it, i feel like i am always in the back seat and traditionally i have never had problems getting forward on my skis. So I started doing some research and found an interesting article regarding the difference even 1cm can make in terms of binding placement. This got me thinking. While I am 6'2 I have small feet (keep all manhood jokes to a minimum please  I am in a mondo 28.5 boot. The sole length of which is 328mm, I have binding set at 325 as that was nearest. Now average mondo size for someone my height is 30-31 which for my boot has a BSl of 348-358 somewhere between 2cm and 3 cm difference. As i understand these bindings given that they are anchored at the rear moving the toe piece forwards moves the boot forward on the ski, so if I had bigger feet my foot or at the very least my COB would be further forward on the ski.
I should also add as well as feeling in the back seat on these ski's the tip of my skis feel pretty wayward, they skitter out and I am having to use what I feel to be excessive force to keep them parallel (my knees did not like me last season) and again this is not something I have had an issue with since first learning to ski (about 20 years ago)
So 2 questions
1) Firstly is my reasoning correct do you think the binding position on skis is designed with the average height and therefore accosiated average bsl of the user in mind and this would make a difference.
2) I am planning on changing the boot size anyway to see if it improves performance, I will be moving it on the binding rail from 325 to 335 or even 345 to effectively move the boot forward, will the heel track have enough play in it to screw up to the boot if I do this and will the binding be safe if I do this or will I adversely affect forward pressure. I understand that if the screw is not flush when I try this then I will have to give up, but I am worried there could be a situation where the screw is flush, but something internally is at the limit of its play etc and could be causing an issue. How would I test this, or would I need to take it to a shop. My ski's are kept in resort where we have a apt so I cannot sort this till I am on the snow without incurring an air fare.
Appreciate anyone help and for reading war and peace above.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There's a number of things that could be the cause of your problems but to answer your binding position question you can be position the bindings anywhere on the rail providing the forward pressure adjustment is set correctly - ie the screw head is flush with the face of the outer housing when the boot's clicked in. The idea is that the centre line of the boot aligns with the mounting line of the ski but many people benefit from being a bit further forward than that.
Could be that your boots are too big &/or the combination of the boot's internal ramp angle, it's forward lean angle & the delta angle of the bindings is putting you in the back seat.
Take an accurate measure of your foot length in mm? Do a shell check in your boots (bare foot in the shell with the liner removed, toes just touching the end of the boot & measure the gap between the back of your heel & the shell of the boot in mm). Shouldn't be more than 20mm, 15mm ideal for good recreational skiers & down to single figures for a performance fit.
Colin & Andi at Solutions4Feet in Bicester can sort all this for you or if you state your location we can recommend a good boot fitter.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gordonrussell76, bear in mind that this could be technique related.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Boot was fitted by Bartletts uxbridge they shell checked it and did a very good job, I am happy that the boot is the correct size given that I am a Uk size 10 and they have me in a Mondo 28 which is essentially a size smaller, I tried a 27.5 and it crucified my foot, i am all for avoiding too big a boot, but i draw the line at sacrificing a toe.
I understand how to adjust forward pressure, so basically while there is still travel in the screw I can move the toe piece forward, great, I shall experiment away then.
Appreciate you answer as it offers other thoughts I had not considered, the angle you mention;
Boot ramp angell, boot is head vector, it comes with inserts for the back of the cuff that are supposed to push you forward, given my shrek like calves bartletts recomended not using them, should i try them and see if that helps, I am aware that Heads are quite upright in there angle. I have a foot bed in there that bartletts put it to deal with my high instep, it is not particularly angled as far as I am aware, but it was more built up at the back than the front leading me to think thats not too bad.
Ramp angle of bindings, not sure I am going to be able to mess with that, the ski's are k2 with integrated Marker Mx bindings so probably a dead end there.
I guess I am going to try the easy fixs' moving binding forward and playing with the angle inserts on the boots, first, if that does not improve things then its back to the drawing board.
Again thanks for your help.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Elston
Always happy to take on board it could be technique related, but I have never had any problems getting forward before, however I am not proud, if my technique is sloppy I would rather adress it and respond to constructive critisism rather than suffer on.
So any pointers as to area in technique I should address or should i try the adjustements and then if no improvement go and get a refresher tuition lesson to see if an instructor can spot any issues
G
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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In the best tradition of specualtive internet advice, I'm going to guess that you have much forward lean in the set up. I suspect your calves are pushing you too far forward in the boot and you are sticking your butt out to balance yourself. If that is the case then you will need to be made more upright somehow - sometimes this can be done by sticking shims under the toe of the binding, although this may not be possible in your case. Some shops can also stretch the back of the boot cuff - from what you describe that may be a better approach to the problem.
I would go and see Colin Martin at Solutions for Feet in Bicester. In the interim, maybe put your boots on and experiment with raising and lowering the toes/heels - by standing on a newspaper for example. See what happens to your pelvis when you do this - whether or not it moves forward or back. You will be surprised by how much difference a small heel or toe rise makes to your stance.
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Ha ha Too much forward lean and I am overcompensating, well I had never thought of that, its just so weird it could be true
I appreciate your comment about trying to go into a shop to get this sorted, but unless they have a 181cm pair of rictors and a 28.5 Vector 120 pair of boots, its mute because all my kit is in our apartment prive in Avoriaz, hence why I am relying on internet info. I could go and see someone in resort, but my french is so bad that I think trying to convery the words ramp angle and have a vaguely techical conversation with them is not going to end well.
APpreciate everyone trying to help. Bottom line I am going to try moving the boot forward on the ski first and see if this makes a difference, and if that fails then maybe I will take a flex bolt out of the boots so its less effort to get forward. No-one has yet suggested that my issues getting forward might be becuase I have too higher a flex boot, which I have jujst thought of myself.
SO many variables, and lets face it the best answer is probably more time on the snow to just get used to the damn things and work around there failings, that and pack extra neurofen
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just because your fitter did a shell check doesn't mean it's not excessive. For peace of mine do an accurate shell check using some lengths of differing diameter dowels/screwdriver handles etc.
+1 re your large calves (in combination with all the other angles) could be pushing you too far forward. Definitely remove the calf spacers on the boot. Colin has a pucka cuff stretching machine for large calved folk - don't know of any other UK shop that has one.
Note that the internal ramp/zeppa angle on the boot is not the same as your footbed.
You're screwed with the MX binding re raising the toe height but depending upon your boot it's possible to add thickness to the toe pad & then route down the top of the lug back to the correct thickness. Colin also has the kit to do that.
As Gorilla says, experiment with standing on some shims to raise your toes up. It sounds counter intuitive but by standing more upright you won't have to stick your backside out to balance.
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spyderjon, not possible to gas pedal the vector as it has a replaceable sole pad (well you could, but it ain't very safe)
the only other cuff stretcher in the UK (proper one which does a pair at a time rather than someone holding the boot bent with a pair of pliers hoping for it to cool in the right place) is in a storage unit somewhere in kent as the guy who owns it sold his shop in Morzine and came back to the UK, he is not set up anywhere quite yet
gordonrussell76, measure around your calf at the point where it is at the top of the boot, 11" off the floor is pretty close on most 28.5 ish boots, let me know that circumference and i will tell you how far out the boots are and how much the need to be pulled back... the Head is not that upright at all, certainly not compared to the langes, Salomons, and most of the Atomics
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Right to recap
1) I will double check the shell when next in Avoriaz, but I am very happy with the fit of the boots and am certain that they are not too big.
2) I will try moving binding.
3) Internal ramp angle is different to footbed, can it be changed?
4) I was experiencing the problem with the calf spacers removed so if that is it it will need calf stretching. I must admit the calf clasps are at the beginning of the day at the limit of their extension, but this is nothing new with my calves.
5) Marker MX no option to change binding angle.
6) Head vector, shimming boot not a practical option for me.
COol, I am not a world cup level skier, I will have a play with moving the bindings forward 1cm and see if that helps, and of course make sure I bend ze knees
Cheers for all your help
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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gordonrussell76, if the calf is pushing you forward in the boot too far no amount of moving the binding 1cm or 10cm will help you, being pushed forward as it sounds you are will automatically put you out of balance and you sit back to compensate.
the internal angle can be changed using a heel lift, but this is mostly only appropriate if the calf is tight rather than just big... even if it is tight and you use a 8-9mm lift iif it is big it will still be a problem
currently your boot has around 60mm of forward lean, i measured a 28.5 vector from stock excluding the cuff spoiler (not going to talk angles as that will confuse people) measured from the back of the shell to a vertical line where the boot heel touches the wall / a builders square if your calf measures 14" (35.5cm) in circumference at the top of the boot then all is fine....... for every 1" (25mm) over 14" you are being pushed froward by 1/3" (8.33mm) being as people have a spectrum of around 3-4mm where they are in perfect balance this is the only thing that will help you
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All this technical stuff is really interesting but surely if you've tried these skis for two seasons and don't get on with them the answer must be: buy new skis! The OP describes the problem as relating to the new skis and not the boots. Unless the boots were bought at the same time as the skis then maybe the calf size/rampe angles etc are just red herrings.
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You know it makes sense.
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gordonrussell76, if you have any video of you skiing then post it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Firstly, thank you to everyone for your responses, I came in only to see whether it was safe to move a binding and I really appreciate everyone chipping in with more holistic solutions to my problem, I have only asked a couple of questions on this forum and I am blown away by helpful everyone is. I am on some completely unrelated forums (music production) and they are not always as friendly.
I see that I have missed a critical bit of information.
I have changed boots since buying the ski;s, but I was unhappy on the skis before changing boots, and if anything the new boots have reduced the issues a lot, they were a distinct improvement, now the fronts of my ski's only skitter about at the end of the day when I am tired, not all the time. However I think that I am still having to fight the ski all day and that is why I am getting tired.
First season I was ski-ing them on a Salomen Mission R7 boot, I had picked the boot up for a steal in an end of season sale and it had done the job of saving me money on rentals and not having to break in a new boot every time I went ski-ing at that point i was going 3-4 weeks a year before I had a daughter, but I had outgrown them and it was time to change up.
So coming at this psuedo-scientifically I have had the same problem with both boots which suggests the issue is with the ski. Valkyrie believe me I have thought about ditching the ski while it will still have a relatively decent re-sale price and getting something else, but 3 things are stopping me
1) I am a stubborn s*d
2) I am tight and I don't like wasting money if a simple tweak could solve the issue.
3) I could buy an equally useless ski, at least if I try to get this one to work, and its still not right I am hoping that in the process I will learn more about what I DO want from a ski, so that my next purchase is informed, if it does not work and I am still struggling I plan on renting a few pairs of skis in resort and buying the ones that feel best, which is what I should have done in the first place instead of buying blind because I got a good deal online see point 2 above.
I think I may be describing it wrong as in I am saying that I am finding it hard to get over the front of the ski's but maybe I should have described more the symptoms than the conclusion I had drawn from it. Namely the symptom I am having is that I am finding that the front of the skis are hard to keep straight, something I have never had an issue with before, and that I find turn initiation at slower speeds not to be as easy as before, it feels like I have to be going mach 10 to get it to turn. IN addition I find these skis turn beautifully in powder, I remember one particular morning I had been making a pig of everything I tried on piste and my wife (super confident skiing for ever decided to cut off piste to get to a restaurant, I was grumbling about the chances of me nailing that after my morning and i went down it like butter, another reason why I suspect my bindings are a little too far back.
Now most of the reviews of the Rictor I have read praise its early turn initiation etc thanks to the rocker, so I feel like either there is something wrong with the setup or something wrong with my ski-ing, I am hesitant to blame the ski to much at this point.
Again appreciate everyone reading my ramblings, I would feel so much better if we were in a bar slope side and I could buy you all a beer to say thanks
G
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Poster: A snowHead
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Firstly, thank you to everyone for your responses, I came in only to see whether it was safe to move a binding and I really appreciate everyone chipping in with more holistic solutions to my problem, I have only asked a couple of questions on this forum and I am blown away by helpful everyone is. I am on some completely unrelated forums (music production) and they are not always as friendly.
I see that I have missed a critical bit of information.
I have changed boots since buying the ski;s, but I was unhappy on the skis before changing boots, and if anything the new boots have reduced the issues a lot, they were a distinct improvement, now the fronts of my ski's only skitter about at the end of the day when I am tired, not all the time. However I think that I am still having to fight the ski all day and that is why I am getting tired.
First season I was ski-ing them on a Salomen Mission R7 boot, I had picked the boot up for a steal in an end of season sale and it had done the job of saving me money on rentals and not having to break in a new boot every time I went ski-ing at that point i was going 3-4 weeks a year before I had a daughter, but I had outgrown them and it was time to change up.
So coming at this psuedo-scientifically I have had the same problem with both boots which suggests the issue is with the ski. Valkyrie believe me I have thought about ditching the ski while it will still have a relatively decent re-sale price and getting something else, but 3 things are stopping me
1) I am a stubborn s*d
2) I am tight and I don't like wasting money if a simple tweak could solve the issue.
3) I could buy an equally useless ski, at least if I try to get this one to work, and its still not right I am hoping that in the process I will learn more about what I DO want from a ski, so that my next purchase is informed, if it does not work and I am still struggling I plan on renting a few pairs of skis in resort and buying the ones that feel best, which is what I should have done in the first place instead of buying blind because I got a good deal online see point 2 above.
I think I may be describing it wrong as in I am saying that I am finding it hard to get over the front of the ski's but maybe I should have described more the symptoms than the conclusion I had drawn from it. Namely the symptom I am having is that I am finding that the front of the skis are hard to keep straight, something I have never had an issue with before, and that I find turn initiation at slower speeds not to be as easy as before, it feels like I have to be going mach 10 to get it to turn. IN addition I find these skis turn beautifully in powder, I remember one particular morning I had been making a pig of everything I tried on piste and my wife (super confident skiing for ever decided to cut off piste to get to a restaurant, I was grumbling about the chances of me nailing that after my morning and i went down it like butter, another reason why I suspect my bindings are a little too far back.
Now most of the reviews of the Rictor I have read praise its early turn initiation etc thanks to the rocker, so I feel like either there is something wrong with the setup or something wrong with my ski-ing, I am hesitant to blame the ski to much at this point.
Again appreciate everyone reading my ramblings, I would feel so much better if we were in a bar slope side and I could buy you all a beer to say thanks
G
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gordonrussell76, stubborn yep that sounds about right, the ski is just showing up the problem caused by the boot (both boots, in fact) the ones you have now have less forward lean than the older ones, but never the less have simply too much for the "shrek like calves"
sort out the boot forward lean issues THEN you can blame the ski or not blame the ski, but right now 2 if not three people have told you the most obvious cause of the issue yet you are choosing to ignore the advice
go on, post the same question in the ask the boot guys forum on epic ski, i promise i won't respond see waht response you get, i am pretty sure it will be about forward lean and calf size
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Right updating this to reflect the fact that I have had time to measure my calf
Its 16 inchs around the calf so I am 2 inchs from ideal (insert appropriate "that what your wife says" joke here)
So I need to get my boot worked on at some point, I am a little disappointed to hear this as I thought I had resolved boots, and also because I just find it amazing as a recreational skier that I need this level of tweaking to get me there. I thought that was reserved for the Racers.
Thanks for everyones help, I will try moving binding forward this season as a stop gap and I guess my boots are coming home with me at the end of the season and a trip to Bicester is on the cards 
G
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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HI everyone
SOrry to re-surrect this thread but I thought people might be interested in my findings post this seasons ski-ing.
I move the binding forward 1cm on the Ricktor, this did manifest in a noticeable improvement, but i was still experiencing the same problem, it was just not as severe.
The next thing I tried, as it was an easy thing to try was I took out 1 of the flex adjustment bolts on each of my boots, this had a massive impact, suddenly everything fell back into place and everything just worked again. My pseudo science on this is that while my old boots were too low in flex, I overcompensated and a 120 flex boot was too much forcing me to be more upright. I.e I was not properly flexing the boot. Taking a plug out I believe drops the flex to 110 (115) depending on which thread you read. Whatever the arbitary figures 1 bolt seemed to be the charm for me and made the ski's much more skiable for me.
In the spirit of evaluation though I also hired a shorter pair of ski's that I am interested in Salomon q90's in 169cm length just to be chalk and cheese.
I have to say that again ski-ing a shorter ski also made a huge difference, I think 169 was probably too short for me, but in conclusion I think that adjusting bindings and boot have been worthwhile, but ultimately I need a shorter ski, probably around 172-5 mark. The Salomon were a revelation, I lost some stability on piste at speed, but off-piste and in bumps they were a joy. THis was not a scientific comparison as while shorter then were also 10cm wider underfoot.
I plan on attending the Snow dome ski trials if snowheads run them again like last november and trying out a bunch of skis, probably between 85/90 underfoot and between 172 and 177 iun length. Models I have identified as wanting to try are Salomon q90 in 177, Head Rev 85 and 90's in relevant lengths, and possibly some Dynastar OUtlands in 80/87.
HOwever I will probably keep the Ricktors as for the first time since I bought them the adjustment to my boots really made me enjoy them, and for ski-ing a circuit when you have to push hard and fast and are staying on piste they were great, and the adjustments made them ski-able enough to cope with bumps etc when needed. I did one particularly narly bit of off-piste while skiing with an instructor friend that I would never have though possible on these ski-s a year ago.
So while yes I probably should have all sorts of technical things done to my boots and that probably would be better ultimately, I did however manage with a few tweaks to masively improve the situation and for my needs this was probably enough.
Thanks everyone for your input to the thread. It was all really useful information and made me think about my boots as a possible sourve of the problem when in the beginning I thought it all with the ski's
G
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