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The evils of artificial snow

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello Chaps,

After a good base clean and hot wax with Datawax Universal I took my skis for their first jaunt to Tamworth Snowdome for a couple of hours of skiing. When I got home I thought I'd have a mooch at the bases and was surprised that there was absolutely no wax remaining on the bases whatsoever and they were a complete mess. Clearly Universal wax is far from ideal for the 'white sand' of Tamworth and I have read some posts suggesting that Holmenkol indoor ski wax followed by a layer of indoor fluid wax (again Holmenkol) might be the way to go. Given that you have far more expertise than I do, I would be grateful for your opinions...

1. What do you guys reckon? Would you recommend the above treatment?
2. Are there any good alternatives to Holmenkol stuff?
3. Would the wrong wax (a hard indoor wax) be a nightmare in a resort like Val T in March/April should I choose to use harder waxes generally?

Many thanks in advance

R
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I use the following:

1, prep with any of the universal soft waxes; couple of hot scrapes to clean all the crap out; once it comes of clean; time to move on
2, datawax soft graphite
3, datawax hard graphite
4, CH4.

if doing my sons skis for racing; there will be some Zardoz in the mix too as per this post: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2019823&highlight=felix#2019823
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Butta do excellent wax. We don't use anything else now. Good range and super easy to use.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
rjb1, Tamworth "snow" isn't snow, it's shaved ice from the ice rink, hence it's abrasive.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thanks all for the replies so far...

Spyderman, that explains a few things. I thought I 'd look up what they do and you're right... As far as I can see Tamworth is essentially a sloped ice rink which gets scraped to form "snow"! No wonder my skis looked so unhappy...
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Has Tamworth changed how they make their snow then? AIUI, when it was first built it used a chemical injected into the water to make it freeze at above freezing so they could make snow. Has that changed or was I misinformed when it was first built?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The website claims its real snow.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Filthyphil30k, there's a lot of variation in real snow so that claim doesn't really mean anything. Smile
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I may well be wrong; after all the site on which I found the info was a random Australian website.
Having said that, snow is just ice crystals after all, so I guess even scraped stuff could be described as 'real snow'.
I might ask them next time I go how they make it.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Lifted from snowboardclubuk.

"The indoor ski slope allows you to ski and snowboard all year round on real snow. It utilises a process developed by ProSnow International of Adelaide, Australia which now jointly owns the slope. Their process allows the manufacture of snow that will stay in top class condition, while the ambient temperature of the building remains at a comfortable 5-8°C."

However, Prosnow International and Daltrek the trademark owner appear to be dormant, or at least not have active websites.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
http://www.snow365.com/#!__snowmakers

"The ProSnow idea was the 'sloping ice rink' which has subsequently been used in about a quarter of the existing snow domes for skiing and snowboarding. There are different ways in which this technology can be applied, and the manufacturers and naturally cagey about the technology party as the history of indoor snow making has been one of patents and in some cases manufacturers fearing their patents have been ripped off.

However some of the slopes using a ProSnow (or ProSnow-like) system have a refrigerated grid identical to that use in ice rinks around the world. However instead of keeping the surface smooth for ice skating you encourage ice crystals to form and scrape the surface to create a soft snow surface. At some slopes, such as England's Tamworth, some users have complained that the surface layer is very thin, only half an inch; but this need not be the case. In fact ProSnow can create snow of a more reasonable depth. The surface is also not scraped in many versions and the snow is created using another, confidential, process."

All other UK domes use the Acer Snowmec process or something similar.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'm strugglingh to understand why frozen water from a fridge would be any more abrasive than frozen water from a pipe in the Alps. Air pressure notwithstanding...
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
particularly remelt frozen water mixed with grit...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

I'm struggling to understand why frozen water from a fridge would be any more abrasive than frozen water from a pipe in the Alps
under a new name, because they add chemicals as well, and the structure of the crystals will be different. But, you are right there are more abrasive mixes around naturally.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I dunno what's in the snow, but it will strip the same wax out of a ski in two hours that will last the best part of a week in the hills.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
beequin, ah, OK, plausible
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I wonder if they do add chemicals as from what I can see, its not necessary given the process that is used and as no nucleation is necessary... I reckon that anything with any solubility in the ice/snow would also decrease the melting point making it melt more readily.

I suspect that its abrasiveness is down to particle size and density... A snow cannon generally blarts a very fine mist of water (and sometimes insoluble materials to provide nucleation) into the air which freezes and falls to the ground as 'proper' snow. I'm guessing that it would have a fairly small particle size and homegeneity and would retain the nice snowflake structure of lowish density. The scraped stuff however is probably (again I'm guessing) more like a bunch of non-homegenous sharp higher density lumps. Having fallen over more than a few times and can say for sure that the snow does feel very grainy and more than a bit hurty, although perhaps that also because there a great lump of ice sitting beneath it!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Chemicals are used in nucleation

http://wiki.fis-ski.com/index.php/Snowmaking#Snowmaking_101_.5B1.5D

or to harden the snow as in race piste preparation

http://www.skidome.org/content/Ski_Slope_Preperation.pdf
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Agreed, but I mean at Tamworth where they probably use the Prosnow system...
Great second link BTW...
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