colour scheme matches my Atomic boots and my existing gloves so am happy. Only downside is the lack of zips/pockets. I am a bit of a nightmare and the Marker has about 27 Zips or pockets (You need to see me doing the old pocket tapping dance when I am trying to find something, its very funny).
first venture out will be on the IOS Tignes trip on the 7th of Nov...
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Snowmoment wrote:
For the Sweet range I would strongly recomend, its 3 layer pro shell gore tex and every bit as good as Norrona. The Supernaut is slim fitting and I have this from last season. The Crusader is baggier...... Duke is lower end and insulated
Norrona Lofoten is a good bet for classic style...
For the ultimate though, Orage Retallack - You will be one of the few with that jacket!
Supernaut (at least last season's) is a LOT baggier than my Lofoten. Still an excellent jacket though.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
hmmm. sweet protection webby not very helpful, and the sportpursuit site has a popup obliterating the pic of the product (and I'm not registering to make it go away).
Looking for something to replace my shöffel jacket, and to use up €100 voucher that expires in December. Need lots of pockets, since I never use a backpack. Don't like the new colours from Schöffel.
In any case - I admit there's something I think I'm missing here... When I go into a shop & pick up say this - www.arcteryx.com/product.aspx?model=Theta-AR-Jacket (just an example mind you!) my thoughts are as follows...
* "There aren't any pockets, just holes! Where the hell do I stow my gloves, ski-pass sleeve etc. Keep my hands warm?". Most hardshells I've seen seem to like only have one pocket on the inside.
* It feels like I'm paying a few hundred quid for basically the outside, with the warm lining removed.
* No snow-skirt or hand gaiter (at least not on the thin hardshells I've seen)
I just don't know - what exactly am I missing here? Don't get the impression I'm against hardshells - it's more that I'm trying to understand how a hardshell would work and why people recommend these.
Thanks!
Hardshells are the way forward. As they're just a waterproof/windproof layer, you can use them whatever the temperature. -20ºC, layer up underneath with a decent merino base and a thick fleece. +10ºC (and/or raining), just wear a thin merino base layer. Stay warm and dry (from sweat as well as snow/water) whatever the weather. It's the really high levels of waterproofing (particularly useful on mild but still snowing days - snow will melt whenever you go into a crowded gondola), windproofing and decent breathability (so you don't get soaked by sweat) that you pay for. Wearing an insulated jacket on a -2ºC day while it's snowing, you'll get soaked with sweat from the inside, and unless it's comparable quality to goretex or the like, get soaked from the outside when the snow melts on you in a lift/as you sit on patches of it on chairlifts.
All decent ski hardshells come with a snow skirt, and mostly a lift pass. The climbing ones don't, and are usually a fair whack cheaper. Your gloves keep your hands warm, not your shell, why do you need pockets for that? Plenty do come with a hand-garter, the Norona Lofoten has by FAR the best one I've ever used. Most shells will come with at least two pockets on the chest, but bulky things are much better off in your salopette pockets where the bulk doesn't matter. Cargo-trouser style salopettes (also hardhsell ftw) are great - though it's only my phone and hipflask that go in mine, usually, the rest in my backpack.
Worth pointing out that a snowskirt is only really essential if you're regularly falling over in really deep snow, and that lift passes work just fine in your salopettes - nothing wrong with saving money and getting a climbing shell without the bells and whistles!
Personally, even when it's colder than -20ºC, I couldn't fathom skiing in a down jacket. FAR to sweaty. Even in a normal insulated jacket, with only a thin base layer I sweat whilst skiing unless it's below -10ºC. Don't get me wrong, I love my down jacket, but for low-energy stuff only!
I have to say this is one of the most illuminating statements on hardshells as it relates to skiing I've seen The issue I had with most articles/posts on hardshells leans towards "what hardshells to buy" rather than "why buy hardshells".
I went to a local Snow + Rock & tried on a proper ski hardshell (I found out that I'd been looking at hardshells more suitable to climbing in the past which tends to be more basic) & now it makes more sense. I do recognise some people tend to prefer softshells but after having had a down jacket which has served me well, I fancy a change, not to mention more adaptable clothing depending on weather.
FWIW I've gone for the Supernaut jacket off the Sport Pursuit sale - I admit I was seduced by the fact it was 40% off not to mention the strong recommendations online! Here's hoping it fits!
On a related note, I came across this article today which I found rather interesting in light of this thread. http://dressed-down.com/blog/2013/5/15/intro-to-techwear-part-4-the-glossary I've not read the other parts yet, but if they're as good as this glossary, I daresay the other parts should be well worth a read.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 20-09-13 3:26; edited 1 time in total
The nick comes from a series of sci fi books by Anne McCaffrey I used to like many, many years ago! "Mrdini", never "Mr Dini"
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
On a related note, I came across this article today which I found rather interesting in light of this thread. http://dressed-down.com/blog/2013/5/15/intro-to-techwear-part-4-the-glossary I've not read the other parts yet, but if they're as good as this glossary, I daresay the other parts should be well worth a read.
That was a good read. The rest is a bit more fashion focussed.
Still haven't decided what I want re hard/soft shell. More concerned about breathability than waterproofness. Anyway, will be interested to hear how the Supernaut works out.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Dibergio wrote:
Quote:
On a related note, I came across this article today which I found rather interesting in light of this thread. http://dressed-down.com/blog/2013/5/15/intro-to-techwear-part-4-the-glossary I've not read the other parts yet, but if they're as good as this glossary, I daresay the other parts should be well worth a read.
That was a good read. The rest is a bit more fashion focussed.
Yeah. A bit zzz-y As long as it fits & does its job, I'm happy
Quote:
Still haven't decided what I want re hard/soft shell. More concerned about breathability than waterproofness. Anyway, will be interested to hear how the Supernaut works out.
If I remember this thread, I'll let you know! But not sure if I'll be doing skiing early in the season - maybe a bit later.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Just make sure you get decent pit zips. My hardshell Changabang (climbing and skiing jacket) is comfy in -20C and +10C and I am happy to venture out in it in very extreme conditions. The hood even stows in the collar yet is fully articulated and wired for use with a helmet. If you are likely to be skiing in storms then it makes sense to go for something which is designed specifically for those mountain environments, and is versatile enough to combine with a variety of insulation layers. The most I've ever had to wear underneath it during activity is two thin baselayers, and that is only in the worst case. For climbing a little more due to the periods of standing around. I carry a small synthetic duvet in my pack which takes up very little room but is ideal for popping on during stops.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Avalanche Poodle, the Changabang has been on my radar for a while. The pit zips look small compared to others. When you say you only wear it two thin baselayers are they merino? Also by activity you mean downhill skiing?
Do you have the 2013 version? I hear the fit has changed a bit - it was quite short in the older one?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Many of the hard shell jackets from climbing manufacturers are very slim fitting. Often, they are so slim that it is hard to fit much more than a single mid layer under them. This isn't enough for me when I'm ski touring because I can't nip into a cafe to warm up.
The best solution I've found is to wear an insulated vest over the top of a hardshell, as suggested in this video...
Layering over the top of your shell also has the advantage that you don't have to strip off to add another layer.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I thought I'd pop back in & comment...
After getting the Supernaut from Sports Pursuit, I went to Val d'Isere last week and I have to say that I'm pretty much happy with my jacket now
Yes, it does appear to be thin, but it does indeed keep out the wind, so I had no problems with keeping warm whilst skiing. However, if you go a bit too light on the thermal layer as I did on one day, I found I got a bit chilly on the chairlifts as the heat from skiing dissipated pretty rapidly so will need to bear that in mind when choosing the right clothes for the thermal layer. However I didn't even feel the need to wear the warm gilets I'd bought just in case you folks like clarky999 was wrong
Signed A Satisfied Customer
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Dibergio wrote:
Avalanche Poodle, the Changabang has been on my radar for a while. The pit zips look small compared to others. When you say you only wear it two thin baselayers are they merino? Also by activity you mean downhill skiing?
Do you have the 2013 version? I hear the fit has changed a bit - it was quite short in the older one?
The pit zips are pretty big, they extend all down the sides and are 13 inches long. I have one about 7 years old, I prefer it shorter for wearing with a climbing harness. The snowskirt adds a little warmth in very cold conditions, and the sleeve lift pass packet is handy too. 4 large pockets allow plenty of gear to be stashed.
I just wear a Helly Hanson synthetic lifa top, or similar from Berghaus under the shell for most winter conditions. Very rarely I have added a similar t shirt but I usually overheat then if skiing. I use the jacket for ice climbing, DH skiing, off piste and ski touring as well. I do ski hard though so tend to run hot, for long ski tours I stick the jacket in a pack as long as the weather is clear.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Mrdini, Nice one I get the same on chair lifts but just grin and bear it.
Oceanic, Yup, a lot of climbers do the same with belay jackets in winter. Climb in the shell, belay with a synthetic over the top. My old Buffalo pile shirt is good for that as it's so hard wearing, but bulky. These days I'll use a light duvet jacket.
After getting the Supernaut from Sports Pursuit, I went to Val d'Isere last week and I have to say that I'm pretty much happy with my jacket now
Yes, it does appear to be thin, but it does indeed keep out the wind, so I had no problems with keeping warm whilst skiing. However, if you go a bit too light on the thermal layer as I did on one day, I found I got a bit chilly on the chairlifts as the heat from skiing dissipated pretty rapidly so will need to bear that in mind when choosing the right clothes for the thermal layer. However I didn't even feel the need to wear the warm gilets I'd bought just in case you folks like clarky999 was wrong
Signed A Satisfied Customer
Doesn't that mean I was right?
Glad you like it anyway though.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
finestgreen wrote:
Quote:
After getting the Supernaut from Sports Pursuit
Does it have the zip on the wrong side? I bought a Sweet jacket recently that did - confusing
Hmm? No. I'm not sure what you mean but zip wasn't on the inside if that's what you mean by "wrong side". It's not an asymmetrical jacket like the Arc'Teryx Sidewider SV.
pam w wrote:
Mrdini, glad you like your jacket but don't forget you were skiing in pretty mild conditions - you'd need that extra layer if it was cold, probably.
Perhaps... But given how well it works, I don't think I would need significantly much more.
Hmm? No. I'm not sure what you mean but zip wasn't on the inside if that's what you mean by "wrong side". It's not an asymmetrical jacket like the Arc'Teryx Sidewider SV.
As in, the toggly zip pull bit is on the right rather than the left.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
finestgreen wrote:
Quote:
Hmm? No. I'm not sure what you mean but zip wasn't on the inside if that's what you mean by "wrong side". It's not an asymmetrical jacket like the Arc'Teryx Sidewider SV.
As in, the toggly zip pull bit is on the right rather than the left.
Hmm? No. I'm not sure what you mean but zip wasn't on the inside if that's what you mean by "wrong side". It's not an asymmetrical jacket like the Arc'Teryx Sidewider SV.
As in, the toggly zip pull bit is on the right rather than the left.
Sorry, I'm not explaining this very well. On any jacket, the slider thing is on one side of the zip, yes? On every jacket I've ever owned, that slider thing has been on the left half of the zip - to do it up you take the bottom of the right half and slot it into the slider on the left half. On my Sweet jacket, it's the other way round - the slider goes up the right half of the zip.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
finestgreen wrote:
Mrdini wrote:
finestgreen wrote:
Quote:
Hmm? No. I'm not sure what you mean but zip wasn't on the inside if that's what you mean by "wrong side". It's not an asymmetrical jacket like the Arc'Teryx Sidewider SV.
As in, the toggly zip pull bit is on the right rather than the left.
Sorry, I'm not explaining this very well. On any jacket, the slider thing is on one side of the zip, yes? On every jacket I've ever owned, that slider thing has been on the left half of the zip - to do it up you take the bottom of the right half and slot it into the slider on the left half. On my Sweet jacket, it's the other way round - the slider goes up the right half of the zip.
Ah! Just checked - yes, you're right. The slider is on the right, zip on left. Didn't realise that was unusual - my other (UNIQLO) jackets are the same.
This is a great jacket and doesn't break the bank.
I've got a mixture of Haglofs, Mountain Equipment and Arcteryx .... prefer the ME gear
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Alex A, I got mine for £230 with a mountaineering club discount. I see last years models coming up in the sales a bit too. Best value for money jacket on the market IMHO.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
The issue I had with most articles/posts on hardshells leans towards "what hardshells to buy" rather than "why buy hardshells".
which tends to be more basic) & now it makes more sense. I do recognise some people tend to prefer softshells but after having had a down jacket which has served me well, I fancy a change, not to mention more adaptable clothing depending on weather.
