 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, I don't know if this should be in equipment or in BZK, but I want to know if anyone else thought 'Oh shit!' the first time they took a file to the edge of a set of expensive skis?
I've got all the right kit from Spyderjon and I've printed out all the sheets from his website, and done what the sheets told me to do with the bits of equipment they said to use. I've had a bash at the edges on one set skis tonight (I'll try the iron and wax etc. another evening). If I have followed the destructions is there a fairish chance that I have got a sharpened set of skis or a better chance that I have wrecked a set of skis?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I must admit I was very apprehensive about servicing my ski's, so i booked myself on Spyderjon's lesson, which was money well spent - particularly when looking after the whole family's skis and snowboards.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ennalsj, I did the same course a few years ago, but still felt a bit nervous!
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Once you've done it a few times it becomes a lot less worrying.
To be honest, you'd have to try hard to damage them badly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum, nice one. I have found looking after my own stuff is much cheaper, plus I'm keeping an eye on it better. Me and an engineer mate did the end of season tune and I picked up tips on "professional" filing just when I thought I had it cracked. Its a journey.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yep ruined many a pair of expensive skis, best left to the ski shops.
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Quite like the idea of learning too. Think I'm going to do the one down at Edge & Wax using my old junker board as a practice target...
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It's great to do but it does take a bit of practice. Do you have any old skis you can make your mistakes with? Are you just sharpening the side edges? If so, it's unlikely you'll have made any errors that can't be easily rectified especially if you followed instructions. For now I'd leave any base edge stuff to a shop and they don't need the same attention. When it comes to waxing, be on the safe side with your iron (probably about 120 degrees) Keep the iron moving and only go over parts with wax on ( no bare bits) If the wax smokes it's too hot. I like to drip wax on a third of the ski then iron in, then move to the next third. That way the wax hasn't hardened so much and it's easier to melt without worrying about the bases getting too hot. When you've sharpened your edges just keep on top of them with a diamond file and a stone. Don't use your sharpening file unless it's really necessary.
The process can become quite addictive! Have fun.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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the instructions he gave you and youtube are your friends in this instance. On Youtube you can see and follow world class tuners on a step by step process - its not that hard
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Thanks all, I'm off to buy masking tape today I had forgotten that was needed - I dug out a roll for last night's pair, but more is needed, I also need a squirter for the water for the files (I nicked mother's last night). I haven't got old skis to play with so I am starting with the kids ones (OK, 'unfair' I hear you all cry, but they are not worth as much as mine are). For the wax I want to put it on and then leave the skis in a warm greenhouse to soak in prior to scraping them, so I'm hoping to get some done this weekend.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ade57, yes, I'm just sharpening side edges and waxing bases. Spyderjon has also provided ptex candles in the kit I got, but I think if I need to use those in the future I will give him a call for further instructions. We covered it on the course, but it's a while back. I'll watch the iron temp as you suggest too. Shopping list for today is masking tape, squirter, maybe some IMS to put in the water, and a strong bag to lob all the gear in. I'm going to visit one of those cheap 'bin' shops with all the cheap tools in they should have all that.
Richard_Sideways and anyone else - lets face it if I am having a bash at the process I should think it can't be beyond anyone! I must have one of the last folks on here that anyone would have thought would have ever tried ski servicing!
Of course in order to gain an err.... 'advantage 'I could always 'forget' to brush the kids skis out!! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Lilledonmarco wrote: |
| the instructions he gave you and youtube are your friends in this instance. On Youtube you can see and follow world class tuners on a step by step process - its not that hard |
There's also a lot of stuff on YouTube that's poor or just plain wrong - even from some of the commercial outfits.
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spyderjon, I went with your instructions as I done your course and had your gear - printed them off and took them outside with me. I'm nicking my brother's metal working bench, great height, quite long enough and a solid as a rock 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Ade57 wrote: |
| ....Are you just sharpening the side edges? If so, it's unlikely you'll have made any errors that can't be easily rectified especially if you followed instructions. For now I'd leave any base edge stuff to a shop and they don't need the same attention...... |
Base edges should always have skiing/rock burrs/dings removed with an alu-oxide stone but after that, yes all tuning should be done on the side edges. An occasional polish of the base edges with a diamond stone(s) is ok but you do not want to remove material from there. You have to accept minor scatches/blemishes on the base edge which will be removed when the skis eventually need a base grind.
| Ade57 wrote: |
| When it comes to waxing, be on the safe side with your iron (probably about 120 degrees) Keep the iron moving and only go over parts with wax on ( no bare bits) If the wax smokes it's too hot. I like to drip wax on a third of the ski then iron in, then move to the next third. That way the wax hasn't hardened so much and it's easier to melt without worrying about the bases getting too hot. |
No need to just iron a third of the ski at a time if you first crayon on a smear of wax over the whole base (like doing a brass rubbing) before dripping on the wax. Only a little bit of the wax you apply get absorbed in to the base, the rest is effectively acting as a hear sink between the base & the iron. Crayoning the wax on first ensures that there's a thin protective film over the base so you can move the iron everywhere. There's loads of waxing clips on YouTube but not one shows this really important step! Also you need to iron until you can feel heat (warm but not hot) come through to the top sheets of the ski at it's tips & tails (ie the thinnest parts of the ski) - most people don't iron for long enough. Your vices should be slackened off when ironing as the ski with decamber as it warms up - which is another reason why iron in thirds is not recommended as you get differential expansion along the length of the ski.
| Ade57 wrote: |
| When you've sharpened your edges just keep on top of them with a diamond file and a stone. Don't use your sharpening file unless it's really necessary. |
Agreed however most DIY tuners don't actually use their metal file often enough. Remember that an edge is only correctly sharpened if a slight hanging burr has been raised so using a diamond only is fine so long as a hanging burr is created - if there's no burr you need to first use a metal file. A medium (16 teeth per cm) cuts very little, especially when compared to a machine tune) & using it regularly for one/two passes will not create excessive wear.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
most DIY tuners don't actually use their metal file often enough
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Good point and one that most rec skiers get really wrong. It took me a year or so to figure out that the files create a sharp edge the diamonds just smooth and hone it further. I had wonderfully polished, but very dull skis by over using the diamonds but rarely the files...
Also I would add that on new skis it is imperative to relieve the side wall with either a sidewall cutter or panzer file or setting the edge angles doesnt work well. I just did a new set of skis yesterday and had to take a load of sidewall off before the files were engaging metal.
masking tape is not really needed imo, just use an old paint brush to clear off the filings after each pass and a squirter can be replaced by an old pint glass to dunk you files in.
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Poster: A snowHead
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spyderjon, The reference to base edges being left was because of the level of experience as of course the bevel can be adversley affected if it's messed about with too much. I've never heard the crayoning tip and will definitely use it. I find the diamond file maintains the sharpness for a decent amount of time and again I was trying to discourage the poster from hacking away at the edges on a daily basis. I will maybe think about using my file a little more though. Always good to keep learning!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My top tip when waxing is to leave the skis out in the sun for half an hour first, as this gets them nice and warm and means you spend a lot less time using the iron to heat them up. If you're just doing one pair it's probably not a big deal, but when waxing hundreds of skis for the local dry slope it would cut hours off the total time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Have an old washing up bowl full of warm water next to you, just dump all your files and diamonds in it while you are servicing.
Pull them out wet and that is plenty wet enough, no need for squirters and/or lube (as the bishop said to the actress!).
Waxing...I use two irons
1) An old flat iron with a linen type cover on it that I load up with wax (you can buy the covers from ski servicing suppliers). A quick smear along the ski and that deposits a decent amount of wax quite evenly
A second Toko ski iron is then used to iron it in nice and smooth.
Dribbling is much slower and more wasteful (bishop etc!)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I quite enjoy the dribbling... anyway.... about ski servicing.....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, Great to hear you've taken the plunge and got into servicing ( skis that is ) - just something I do regularly is leave the skis in the hot press overnight, not too warm but better than room temp and the bases really do absorb a lot of the wax ( mind the good towels etc ) Also make sure you check the melting/ironing temp of the wax, it should be on the pack. I do lots of skis very regularly and enjoy it, wont be long before you need a second garden shed !!!!! Enjoy
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Megamum, Great to hear you've taken the plunge and got into servicing ( skis that is ) - just something I do regularly is leave the skis in the hot press overnight, not too warm but better than room temp and the bases really do absorb a lot of the wax ( mind the good towels etc ) Also make sure you check the melting/ironing temp of the wax, it should be on the pack. I do lots of skis very regularly and enjoy it, wont be long before you need a second garden shed !!!!! Enjoy
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OK, I've taken the plunge made the wax iron dirty. This morning I followed the instructions and scraped a set a bases, then brushed (I like this big brass brush - very satisfying it was brushing along the skis), then brushed with a large paste brush that I think will find its way into my ski service bag). Then I crayoned on the cleaning wax, quick dribble (I put the iron on 120C for this as it didn't have a temp on it) and ironed it in until the warmth came through the ski, then whilst the ski was still warm I used the big metal scraper (didn't really know which one to use, but it seemed effective) to scrape it off and, wonders will never cease, it did come away with dirt in it. So after the scraping I had another go with the brass brush and paint brush and got the Dominator zoom on the go.
Pack said 120C so checked the iron and repeated the crayoning and ironing. Skis are now in Dad's poly tunnel and I wouldn't mind the sun coming out a bit more so they get nice and warm. However, if it doesn't happen today I guess I could always wait until tomorrow and see if conditions get warmer then.
spyderjon, about the scrapers, could you (or someone) please remind me when do I use the metal one and when do I use the big plastic ones? Cheers.
I'm still on the same set of skis, but I thought I'd go through the whole process on one set first, just to check that I can complete the process before trying any of the others.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, Always plastic scraper for wax. The metal one is to scrape excess ptex after repairs and things like that.
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If you're going to be doing lots of repairs a plastic scraper sharpener (Toko do one) is a good idea. It's not cheap to begin with but the scrapers get blunt very quickly and unless you're prepared to scrape away for ages, you end up buying them relatively often. I had a bunch of about 6 that had gone blunt. About 5 years ago a friend of mine who owns a ski shop recommended the sharpener which he uses himself in his workshop. I haven't bought a new scraper since. I sharpen a couple of scrapers before I do all the skis and it speeds the job up nicely.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ade57, great thanks - plastic one from now on (hope I haven't done damage) and I'll look at a sharpener I think.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, I just hold a bit of sandpaper on a flat surface with one hand then rub the edge of the plastic scraper against it to keep it sharp.
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You know it makes sense.
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I've just been an inspected the 'cooking' they are nicely warm all the way through in the polytunnel, and I am surprised to see what briand6868, suggested, much of the wax does indeed look as though it has disappeared and it can only have been down into the skis. I assume that this is good thing, though I guess I will have to let them cool down properly before scraping.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Megamum wrote: |
| ....much of the wax does indeed look as though it has disappeared and it can only have been down into the skis. I assume that this is good thing.... |
Yes
| Megamum wrote: |
| .... I guess I will have to let them cool down properly before scraping. |
Yes
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, Let them cool down at room temp (or so) don't leave 'em out in the freezing cold to "speed up" the cooling.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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briand6868, I went and got them at about 5pm and stashed them in the house so they didn't get too cold . The wax is still on them at the moment - if we get a decent day tomorrow I'll stick 'em back in the poly tunnel for another session before scraping. Plenty of time to get 3 sets done if I start now, not skiing until next Feb!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I don't need top performance from my kit I just want it last in serviceable condition for as long as possible. Given the cost of ski wax I think a couple of 'cycles' will do me 
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| Quote: |
probably give them 15/20 cycles before they go on the snow
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wow, that's a lot unless you're a full time racer ? I would suggest you are better off doing a few wax cycles and with the time saved getting on your bike for a "cycle" will do more for your times..
says the guy who just waxed his GS training skis cause it was raining and couldn't face a wet cycle 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Regularly sharpening your side edges using a good side edge tool with either a diamond stone or ski grade file followed by a diamond stone (and knocking off the hanging burr that a file will produce) can make a large improvement in your skis performance in firm snow conditions. Waxing your skis at the correct iron temperature with an iron having an accurate thermostat is simple and quick and your skis will love you for it. You will find that they will glide and turn more smoothly and, yes, go faster if you chose to. The slipperiness of freshly waxed bases also helps to avoid base damage.
Typical hardware store files are not hard enough to effectively sharpen the higher Rockwell grades of steel used on most skis. A home iron can work but their thermostats often produce widely varying temperatures at any given setting.
Get a plastic scraper and a nylon ski wax brush for soft wax and a bronze or brass brush for harder waxes to brush out the wax sufficiently to expose the ski base structure.
As has been mentioned by others there are a lot of "How To" videos on the internet. Some are better than others. If you can take a class from spyderjon or purchase his tuning DVD or learn from another reputable ski tuner, it may well be better.
As with many other things, some, particularly racers, will prep their skis more rigorously than others. However, for most recreational skiers, a modest investment in tools, wax and a few minutes time can produce big dividends.
New skis can frequently also benefit from a tune to insure consistent edge angles and properly ground bases and that the skis are properly waxed (the factory wax is applied for reasons other than actual use). Although all major ski manufacturers are capable of producing excellent designs and most use high grade materials, various factors can and do work to produce varying consistencies in the finished product.
Among companies with excellent production quality control, if the skis you just purchased happened to be among the last produced before a routine recalibrating of the machinery or changing a dressing stone, the base and or side edges may vary along the skis length or simply be off by a degree or more from specifications. Or a ski that left the factory with a flat base may develop one that is concave, convex or both owing to the skis having been finished before the epoxy curing process was complete. Moreover, design and manufacture are separate parts of most ski companies and not all companies excel equally at both.
With wider skis, complete flatness at the tips and tails is often not practically possible but the mid length portion of your skis should at least be flat. If there is a reputable ski tuner available, ask that person to first check the edges and the base for conformance to the correct bevels and for base flatness. It will give you assurance that the major investment you just made will perform as designed.
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FAQ
