 Poster: A snowHead
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Harry Flashman wrote: |
| He then stated as the Defender has no driver aids or ABS, |
Wrong, ABS and Traction Control were available on Defender from the TD5 model onwards.
Winter tyres aren't just for snow & ice, they're for when temperatures drop below 7C, they'll outperform an A/T all season tyre on dry cold tarmac. On a vehicle like a Defender they'll be fine for all year round use also, the loss in performance in the summer will be negligible. |
Yes, but mine doesn't (as I told him).
Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme x 4 plus some cheap black modular steel wheels to hang them on = £600, which seems like a good plan. I can always sell them when I get back/next winter (I really don't need them for the UK - the Mud Terrains were fine for the 10 miles or so I did in London in last year's snow)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Harry Flashman, if you really 'worship' your car it's best not to take it to the alps. Everything out there gets damaged in one way or another, even if not by you then by someone else. Even when it's not moving it can fall victim to other people, snowploughs and snow falling from rooftops (seen a couple written off this way!).
Mine is covered in scratches for example, which I assume are from people leaning skis against it or maybe just falling onto it as they slip on the pavement.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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albinomountainbadger, very good point. We have "parking" insurance which is a bit of a Swiss standard to let you no more than once a year get scrapes and scratches from other's rubbish parking (or indeed, skis, etc.) be repaired.
It tends to be invoked in the springtime...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
Harry Flashman, if you really 'worship' your car it's best not to take it to the alps. Everything out there gets damaged in one way or another, even if not by you then by someone else. Even when it's not moving it can fall victim to other people, snowploughs and snow falling from rooftops (seen a couple written off this way!).
Mine is covered in scratches for example, which I assume are from people leaning skis against it or maybe just falling onto it as they slip on the pavement. |
It's a matt NATO olive green Land Rover. A few bumps and scatches really don't matter - they'd make it look better!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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albinomountainbadger, that sounds all too familiar. The suspension on mine took a battering the first few winters when our roads were not made up, and even now with all the potholes, solid chunks of ice, etc. Skis, boards and ski boots inside and on top. Salt. I am not, fortunately, "car-proud" and provided it's safe, roadworthy and goes, that's all I ask. I can't blame the Alps, though, for the latest dents and scratches incurred when I tried to get close enough to an Italian motorway toll booth for my passenger to reach the machine out of the window and got too close. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The thought of that long drive in a Defender makes me ache.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| The thought of that long drive in a Defender makes me ache. |
Should not be so bad in mine, actually - last owner used to take it to his place in Chamonix (he had a heated garage, though). Mine has 190+ bhp from a Twisted tuning package, big Brembo brakes, Range Rover transfer box (so cruises at 80 happily), extended fiorst gear (so no stupidly short first gear to drive you nuts in town) steering damper and proper soundproofing. It's no Range Rover, but it is probably one of the most civilised TD5 Defenders out there! Last owner threw his considerably large chequebook at having it taken to pieces and rebuilt to a rather nice spec. It seriously needs air conditioning, though...
I've driven it to Scotland for shooting, and it's pretty good, as long as you are happy cruising at 75mph, rather than pushing it to 90, at which point it's all a little scary...
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 3-09-13 12:20; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman, jiagedaping, yes, I think I was just unlucky with my Subaru - I guess even the best of factories put out the odd "dud". But I bought it in Fiji where the choice wasn't vast (and where 4WD was occasionally useful on unmade roads - certainly a lot more useful than it is in a normal winter in the Alps).
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pam w, old Scoobys were very sensitive to fuel quality as Japan runs on 100 octane fuel and most of the rest of the world doesn't. If it hadn't been adapted to run on whatever the norm in Fiji was, that would be the problem.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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mishmash, your post highlights perfectly the tyre symbol confusion in play! The three peak mountain symbol is a level up from the M+S which makes the M+S tag unnecessary on that fire truck's tyres (other than for marketing purposes). Daft analogy but imagine a teacher giving a school report a grade A and then sticking a grade B on too - the latter serves no purpose because clearly the standards of grade B are included within grade A.
Just took a look at Continental's range via your link and it's a great example. Some of the CrossContact range is rated M+S, but then some of it isn't, and only the CrossContact Winter actually has a mountain snowflake. I had the WinterContact which is also mountain snowflake rated, but it's not part of the CrossContact range... I don't know how people are meant to understand all that when comparing across a variety of manufacturers with their own interpretations.
It can't help at all that M+S is supposed to stand for Mud + Snow, but could easily be misunderstood as meaning Mountain + Snowflake (and therefore the higher rating).
pam w, I also have to admit that the worst damage to mine was self-inflicted in an under ground car park in the very unsnowy south of France.
under a new name, excellent idea from the Swiss insurers, sadly I feel such a policy would bankrupt French companies or at least treble premiums.
I might spend the interseason developing some additional features...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Defender's a cool car in the Alps when the weather's lousy; just a PITA to get it there. Sounds like yours will be less of a PITA than most though.
The Wintrac Extremes you're looking at are a highly rated tyre but if you don't want new rims there are a couple of snow rated (proper snowflake symbol) all season tyres on the market that would work and get fantastic reviews.
One is the Nokian WRG2 which I have on my Legacy and they were fantastic commuting to work every day around Meribel from La Tania. Drove past abandoned SUVs (on summer tyres) and people struggling with chains on all winter. The SUV version is here http://www.nokiantyres.com/tyreid=11195214&group=2.01&name=Nokian+WR+G2+SUV
They outperform a lot of pure winter tyres on snow in the German Autobild tests while being perfectly suitable for summer use also. I've done 20,000 miles on mine and they've still got 6mm of tread left with no uneven wear. The other is a Vredestein Quatrac 3 SUV.
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Raceplate, the worst of the problems were actually after it had been imported back to the UK. On one occasion my OH was driving up to Manchester with son and car-load of stuff for university. Car lost power almost completely in the outside lane of a busy M6 in the rain. AA Relayed them north and left car with main dealer. OH came back on train. Went to fetch it, paid very expensive bill, exactly the same thing happened on the way back. AA Relayed him home - given that he had done everything possible to get the car fixed. The main dealers should presumably have known about the fuel issue, as would the importer into Fiji, where there were almost exclusively Japanese cars? It was after that that we decided the car had to go - Chichester Car Auctions. Bought an 18 month old Toyota Carina - extremely boring car but which ran impeccably for years and years and years and over 120K miles.
My present Multipla (also just passed 120K miles) recently developed a similar problem, solved by disconnecting the Mass Airflow Sensor. Now goes like a bomb (and still does plenty of MPG) but I suspect I will have to reconnect it for the MOT next week. I reckon cars can be too clever. Certainly too clever for me.
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You know it makes sense.
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Shame I just flogged my 2003 4motion passat with 140k and 4 decent nokian winter tyres for £1k. I'm going to have to pay a bit more than that for 4 tyres and winter wheels for the new one. Any tips were best to go, looking at mytyres.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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jbob, http://www.oponeo.co.uk/ were cheapest for me. Polish parent company with German warehouses and distribution so plenty of winter tyre stock.
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, Mass Airflow sensor is certainly a modern problem. They can be cleaned, you know, but a dealer won't tell you that and new ones are usually a few hundred quid.
The problem with fuel is it depends what the car was originally designed to run on. Toyota design their engines to run on a low octane rating so if the user puts a higher quality fuel in it's no issue. Arguably, though it means they're not maximising the engine's performance. OTOH it's one of the reasons why (until recently) they had a worldwide reputation for being indestructible.
Subaru were notorious for doing it the other way round - designing an engine to run on 100 octane for maximum performance and letting the customer worry about how to maintain that performance in other markets. My own Legacy (2006) had "holding back" problems and I reckon that's why the previous owner sold it. He'd already paid £400 for a new MAF which had only fixed it temporarily. I had the Engine Management Module reprogrammed for £50 and it's never done it since.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bit unreasonable from some of you, i drive all winter (not just a weeks holiday here or there) in harsh winter conditions, using what i use and driving how i drive, if thats of no interest to people less accustomed to it then thats ok. So typical of this forum sometimes, time for a break me thinks
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just wanted to say what many others have said many times over.
My citroen picasso on winter tyres is much better in the alps than my discovery was on summer AT2s. Especially on just cold icy roads. You don't see many people with big 4x4s in the alpine resorts. I know several people who drive up to Val Thorens every day and they just have 2wd cars with winter tyres.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| meh wrote: |
| ...........basically just slap on 33" siped, studded AT tyres for winter. |
Monster truck, by any chance?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
mishmash, your post highlights perfectly the tyre symbol confusion in play! The three peak mountain symbol is a level up from the M+S which makes the M+S tag unnecessary on that fire truck's tyres (other than for marketing purposes). Daft analogy but imagine a teacher giving a school report a grade A and then sticking a grade B on too - the latter serves no purpose because clearly the standards of grade B are included within grade A.
Just took a look at Continental's range via your link and it's a great example. Some of the CrossContact range is rated M+S, but then some of it isn't, and only the CrossContact Winter actually has a mountain snowflake. I had the WinterContact which is also mountain snowflake rated, but it's not part of the CrossContact range... I don't know how people are meant to understand all that when comparing across a variety of manufacturers with their own interpretations.
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I dont think you are quite right - the symbols mean slightly different things in different legislations.
Conti explain it here : http://www.continental-tires.com/www/tires_de_en/themes/van-tires/winter-tires/markings/markings_en.html
My simplification of it is : M+S : Good in Mud and (fresh) Snow on a 4 x 4 or pick up type due to knobbilness. Not actually a tested standard. Not good , on its own, for ice,compact snow, ice ,et etc
Mountain with a snowflake: EU standard for winter tyre ie below 7deg c, especially better on ice, compacted snow, cold weather, fresh snow (with undercarriage clearance!!) - due to compound and "Sipes"
So WinterContact is regular car winter tyre, CrossContact is SUV and CrossContactWinter is SUV winter - SOME of which are all so M+S, probably where some off road may occur. So Haute Savoie Sapeur Pompiers do need both the Mountain/snowflake (to drive on ice) and the M+S (to drive offroad). I only need the Mountain Snowflake, because i never intend deliberately going off road!
Also agree re Oponeo as often the cheapest but all seems to depend on brand and sizes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Red Leon wrote: |
| meh wrote: |
| ...........basically just slap on 33" siped, studded AT tyres for winter. |
Monster truck, by any chance? |
33" that's a pansy size, I've got 37" on mine. 
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Red Leon, in the land of the Super Jeep that's genuinely pretty small. You see stuff like this out and about all the time:
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| Quote: |
squirrelshit buscuits
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Muesli bars  . That's the standard terminology in our family; coined by a sailing friend, in disgust, when it was about all we had left when what we wanted was a bacon bap.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Don't we all just love a winter tyre thread!
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| barry wrote: |
| Bit unreasonable from some of you, i drive all winter (not just a weeks holiday here or there) in harsh winter conditions, using what i use and driving how i drive, if thats of no interest to people less accustomed to it then thats ok. So typical of this forum sometimes, time for a break me thinks |
So where do you drive all winter?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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foxtrotzulu, oh yes - popcorn anyone
Out of interest I just checked out my tyres, they are marked as Vredestein M&S but also have the snowflake symbol. Running them on Disco and do all year!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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All Terrains are for people who want a jack of all trades master of none, OK on the road but not as good as a pure road tyre, pretty useless in mud once it gets past something that you'd attempt in a car, alright in snow, but you'd rather have winter tyres. My Land Rover plays in mud and for that I've fitted extreme mud tyres, nothing better, the places I go they won't let a 4x4 with A/T tyres fitted even enter the course. Proper winter tyres come the winter, I'd kill myself driving with the mud tyres on.
If you want to get where you want to go fit the right tyres for the job, not some mamby pamby compromise, otherwise why did you buy a Land Rover.
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| jbob wrote: |
| Shame I just flogged my 2003 4motion passat with 140k and 4 decent nokian winter tyres for £1k. I'm going to have to pay a bit more than that for 4 tyres and winter wheels for the new one. Any tips were best to go, looking at mytyres. |
jbob, check out: http://www.tyremen.co.uk in Hull & ask for Phil. Super helpful guy who reckons the Conti TS850 is the best winter/snow tyre on the market at the moment for cars, closely followed by the Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme. Phil will be sorting out a set of rims/tyres for me in a few weeks when my new motor arrives
I'll be keeping my winter wheels/tyres on all through the UK winter (when I do very few miles anyway) so for aesthetics I was thinking of getting a set of alloys rims instead of steel as the e/o for not too fancy 16" alloys isn't that much. Apart from them being easier to ding is there any reason why this isn't a good idea?
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You know it makes sense.
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Boris,
Boris, we used M&S tyres for 5 years until Bridgestone changed the Duellers to a high performance type. Never had any trouble with them, and I drove in bad conditions over the Lauteret for several days when hubby was in hospital. It is better with the Conti winter tyres we have now though not so noticeably that I would swap if our next car had M&S tyres.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've gone back and checked - they are Vredestein, Wintrac 4 xtreme
Checking the reports, including German ones, they always do well in tests
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| shep wrote: |
| - Forget the cab heater. Rule 5, that's why winter clothing is warm. |
How good are you at driving in ski boots ?
I guess the driving position in the Defender may be ok, people seem to manage fine in Transits wearing boots.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm rubbish! Don't try anymore. Once made an emergency call to EDF on behalf of a friend with a flaming meter, the guy showed up 20 mins later in works van, skiboots, one-piece! Perhaps they have good electrical-insulation properties??
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rjs, shep, bit of a faff but one of my colleagues used to drive home wearing his ski boot liners as slippers everyday...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
jbob, check out: http://www.tyremen.co.uk in Hull & ask for Phil. Super helpful guy who reckons the Conti TS850 is the best winter/snow tyre on the market at the moment for cars, closely followed by the Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme. Phil will be sorting out a set of rims/tyres for me in a few weeks when my new motor arrives
Apart from them being easier to ding is there any reason why this isn't a good idea? |
Thanks for the tip. The issues with winter alloys are, salt, and kerbing the wheels in deep snow. I think I might need an odd size so may have to go for alloys, they are not that much different in price. I guess alloys wouldn't good for over regular tyre changes. I had spotted the Contis, but the 830, seems more available. My Nokians were fine, had two sets in all, don't think Microsoft bought them.
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| DB wrote: |
| barry wrote: |
| Bit unreasonable from some of you, i drive all winter (not just a weeks holiday here or there) in harsh winter conditions, using what i use and driving how i drive, if thats of no interest to people less accustomed to it then thats ok. So typical of this forum sometimes, time for a break me thinks |
So where do you drive all winter? |
Hemel fridge?
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| barry wrote: |
| Bit unreasonable from some of you, i drive all winter (not just a weeks holiday here or there) in harsh winter conditions, using what i use and driving how i drive, if thats of no interest to people less accustomed to it then thats ok. So typical of this forum sometimes, time for a break me thinks |
So where do you drive all winter? |
Hemel fridge? |
Nah, never make it up the ice on St.Albans Hill using A/T's 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| mishmash wrote: |
My simplification of it is ... [above]
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Suspect you're quite right, I hadn't considered the off-road aspect and was just looking at it in 'snow' terms.
| mishmash wrote: |
Also agree re Oponeo as often the cheapest but all seems to depend on brand and sizes. |
Have used oponeo a lot too, often a very good deal but delivery times are very sketchy. Order a set of four and you might get two within a week but have to wait another week for the other two! Also found Blackcircles to be worth a look as fitting at a local independent centre is included in the price. That could become a useful selling point as in France now a lot of garages are refusing to fit new tyres that they haven't sold, so beware if you just roll down from Calais with shiny new rubber in the boot expecting to change them here.
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| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
| mishmash wrote: |
My simplification of it is ... [above]
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Suspect you're quite right, I hadn't considered the off-road aspect and was just looking at it in 'snow' terms.
| mishmash wrote: |
Also agree re Oponeo as often the cheapest but all seems to depend on brand and sizes. |
Have used oponeo a lot too, often a very good deal but delivery times are very sketchy. Order a set of four and you might get two within a week but have to wait another week for the other two! Also found Blackcircles to be worth a look as fitting at a local independent centre is included in the price. That could become a useful selling point as in France now a lot of garages are refusing to fit new tyres that they haven't sold, so beware if you just roll down from Calais with shiny new rubber in the boot expecting to change them here. |
Yes I tried to get 123pneus or pneu-online to use a UK card and it just blew up even though they were the French equivalent of a UK site - ended up using a family French card though and getting delivery to a French fitter in the end. Maybe that way around it.
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FAQ
