Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Pole planting - useful or not?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mike Pow, interesting, do you ever bring pole plant / touch / flick back into ski teaching, or your own skiing?
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
At tux this summer the disability snowsports crew were there doing some stuff and there was either 1 or 2 1 armed skiiers anyway they didn't miss that pole although they did have a single pole if I remember rightly, my point is that there is no doubt you can ski hard and fast without poles but I have also no doubt it's a a lot more difficult at least at first, and what 1 person can do and make look easy another person can only hope of achieving it, which makes me think of another point of how pointless these arguments over teaching methods are given the learner plays a MASSIVE roll in how things turn out
Quote:

Never claimed this. I've criticised the forceful pole plant to initiate the turn that so many skiers perform.



isn't that a bit silly as that's just a bad pole plant being used, you could pick anything and disapprove of it when done badly.
snow conditions
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Haggis_Trap wrote:
^ I suspect you teach a lot of intermediate skiers on well groomed slopes or perfect powder ?
No one is denying that in this scenario that you can happily get by without planting poles.


For most of the winter this is the case, but Hokkaido sees the gamut of snow conditions that most mountains receive each winter -

powder, packed powder, crud, wind crust, sun crust, bolier plate refreeze, spring slush.

Admitedly we don't get the "blue ice" that some resorts get.


Quote:
However what would happen if you had a student that wanted to learn how to ski moguls ? (...or steeps ... or variable snow).
Would you stick by your dogma that poles "just confuse the issue" ?


Yes.

I teach students to ski moguls, steeper terrain, mixed snow conditions.

The Hokkaido steep doesn't compare with steeps in other parts of the alpine world. It maxes out 35 degrees. But that's plenty steep enough for the majority of recreational skiers that I teach.

I've successfully skied slopes between 40-45 degrees without feeling the need to pole plant so if I had students who were capable of skiing that type of terrain I wouldn't introduce pole plants to them.

And I've already written that we get moguls, just not the size that you get on mountains where there are large timeframes between snowfalls.

I don't ski the zipper line and I don't teach zipper line mogul skiing. If someone wanted that type of tuition then I'd recommend an instructor who is far better suited.

Same goes for race training and anything beyond small jumps and box slides in the park. There are better suited instructors out there.
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
megamum In a number of other skill based sports I've done in the past (I'm thinking of golf and swimming), I've become aware of a number of different schools of thought re technique and learning methodologies. I sympathise with your confusion and frustration. What I've learned, and would recommend to you (if I can be so bold) is to find one person, professional, coach, instructor who you trust implicitly; listen to them and them alone and ignore everybody (and I mean everybody, including all the wise sages here on BZK!) else. The alternative is many frustrating years with little progression.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
kitenski wrote:
Mike Pow, interesting, do you ever bring pole plant / touch / flick back into ski teaching, or your own skiing?


Only to show the student what he/she may be doing when I first ski with them as a comparison with what my alternative looks like, feels like and why I advocate it.

As I've written earlier in the thread, Nerys is the only never-ever I've taught in the past 5 seasons and she's not been taught to pole plant / touch / flick.
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
geeo wrote:
Quote:

Never claimed this. I've criticised the forceful pole plant to initiate the turn that so many skiers perform.


isn't that a bit silly as that's just a bad pole plant being used, you could pick anything and disapprove of it when done badly.


I've seen far too many instructors teaching this for it to be just a confused interpretation on the student's behalf.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Bad instructors? no one thinks they exist tho Toofy Grin
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Mike Pow wrote:
geeo wrote:
Quote:

Never claimed this. I've criticised the forceful pole plant to initiate the turn that so many skiers perform.


isn't that a bit silly as that's just a bad pole plant being used, you could pick anything and disapprove of it when done badly.


I've seen far too many instructors teaching this for it to be just a confused interpretation on the student's behalf.


BASI manual describes pole plant as "flick of the wrist"

Anything else is just a bad pole plant.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
abd - I basically agree with your advice although in my case I found it good first to try some different instructors to find what worked for me personally. For me I find it does not need to be the same instructor or even the same nationality as I have found it helpful to have different perspectives but they do all have to have the the same commoon philosphy which in my case is that they all preach the fundamentals.
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Haggis_Trap wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
geeo wrote:
Quote:

Never claimed this. I've criticised the forceful pole plant to initiate the turn that so many skiers perform.


isn't that a bit silly as that's just a bad pole plant being used, you could pick anything and disapprove of it when done badly.


I've seen far too many instructors teaching this for it to be just a confused interpretation on the student's behalf.


BASI manual describes pole plant as "flick of the wrist"

Anything else is just a bad pole plant.


BASI instructors may well teach this and their students may well do it but as the BBC says "there are other providers besides BASI".

And there are a multitude of non-BASI taught skiers doing more than a flick of the wrist on the mountains of the world.
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Does BASI advocate keeping the chest facing down the fall line when performing short radius turns with a "flick of the wrist" please?
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

http://youtube.com/v/KQajwvQLOXM&list=TL8WAN1pkf_CQ

Official BASI level 4 short radius turns
latest report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Beaten to it!


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Thu 29-08-13 14:31; edited 1 time in total
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
Does BASI advocate keeping the chest facing down the fall line when performing short radius turns with a "flick of the wrist" please?


^ not just BASI. The Canadians too Wink
Here is a wee lesson on pole plants / short turns for ya.


http://youtube.com/v/pY8z1hTeG0w
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Apologies for not chipping in earlier, I've been travelling.

A pole plant is an indispensable part of my skiing in many, but not all situations. That's why I teach it. I have no idea what the BASI "official line is, or even if there is an official line. I can't recall a single detailed discussion about pole plants in a teaching environment in any BASI course I've done, and only once has there been a detailed discussion about pole plants in a technical context and that was at L3 when looking at performance short radius turns. As a drill I've been made to ski bumps without poles. I found it impossible to ski them, instead I was just "getting down". In long radius, high speed turns my pole plants are completely different to what I would do in short radius turns down the fall line, perhaps being nothing more than just a twist of the wrist where the pole tip doesn't even touch the snow. In shorts, steep terrain, bumps my pole plant will be much more forceful and range in position from ahead of my feet to level with my heels depending on the terrain and the snow.

I think about introducing a pole plant to my clients when they are capable of linked turns of reasonable shape, and will be at or close to parallel skis at turn initiation. For me the key factor is whether they have the capability of making a pole plant to it supports other aspects of their skiing rather than breaking their good habits. I don't worry if initially the introduction of the pole plant means another aspect of their skiing degrades slightly. That often happens when you introduce something new, at all levels of skiing. It doesn't take much focused practice for the new skill to begin to develop and the other aspect(s) of their skiing to return.

There are two reasons I teach a pole plant. One, as I said, it is an indispensable part of my skiing. If I were to not teach it I would be denying my clients an essential tool in their skiing toolbox, and that's not what they pay me for. Secondly, it is a useful teaching tool for other aspects of their skiing. I am firmly in the camp that the pole plant has value as a trigger or initiation for movements the skier needs to make at the start of the turn. I will often introduce the pole plant when my priority at that moment is the movement(s) I want them to make at turn initiation, rather than the pole plant per se. IME this is very powerful teaching tool. Pole plant drills can also be useful for all sorts of things around timing and coordination.

Megamum, IMO you ski better when you make a good pole plant. You can abandon it if you want, but I think that would be a step backwards in your skiing. You might think it is an unnecessary distraction to your skiing, but that's because you have only just learned how to use pole plants and it is not yet an acquired skill. When I learned to drive I thought changing gear was very tricky and a terrible distraction. If I had abandoned the gear stick at the time I would now be limited to automatic cars and would be denied the pleasure of changing gear...
snow conditions
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Thanks kevinrhead and Haggis Trap.

Far more instructive and applicable than the Mogul competition footage.
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar wrote:

I think about introducing a pole plant to my clients when they are capable of linked turns of reasonable shape, and will be at or close to parallel skis at turn initiation.


I was taught to pole plant relatively early on by a Slovenian instructor I had who was probably quite old school, I was probably around the level rob@rar describes. Pole planting for me is essential for anything other than lazy piste skiing and I'm really glad I was taught it quite early on as it is pretty instinctive in my skiing now and not something I need to think about. I can understand the argument that it can be difficult but in my opinion that is usually put forward by people who have been skiing for quite a while and can't pole plant. They can already ski a lot of the mountain and control their speed so they find it difficult to see why they have to learn something new. Skiing as a whole is difficult to do well, so why don't we all ski on blades as they are so much easier to turn?

If I am having a bad day and struggling a bit concentrating on making a strong pole plant can be one thing which really helps. This does not involve my upper body flailing about but can actually help quieten it as it will make me aware if I am leaning into the hill, leaving my inside hand behind or dropping one side. My turns to the left are my weakest but after seeing loads of pics of myself over a day I realised I was consistently dropping my left (inside) hand. Concentrating on keeping my left hand up and forward with a nice pole plant really helped fix this.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Mike Pow,
Quote:

Nerys is the only never-ever I've taught in the past 5 seasons and she's not been taught to pole plant / touch / flick.


Off to Boris' Bar with you! wink
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
rob@rar, I intend to persevere with them as I have a lot of trust in you - I'm trying to work in a clinic at HH this Autumn too so you can see how I'm getting on - I skied at Chill Factore on Monday evening and planted poles for the whole night (except when I practiced one legged skiing and there seemed to be too much to concentrate on with one foot in the air to worry about poles too!). You will be pleased to hear that my daughter also thinks that I've stopped stemming that turn as well - I asked her to watch me closely Very Happy .

I just started the thread as I was so interested in Mike Pow's, comment on another thread that he didn't teach them, and the fact that this had cropped up so close to my starting to get to grips with them and that I knew you were very keen that I did so. I just wanted to find out why his view was so different more out of pure curiosity than anything else, and I thought it would make an interesting discussion - which I think it has done.

What I take from his, and others, comments is that my skiing probably hasn't gone amiss to any great extent because I haven't pole planted until this point in time despite being encouraged to do so from very early on by other instructors. I think I am relieved as I have often worried that I couldn't nail them before now, but perhaps this isn't the problem that I previously thought if some people are never taught them.

Mike Pow, does seem to be in a minority with his methodology, but I am pleased that he is willing to defend his viewpoint - it is a poor argument that can't be defended (as I well know Confused wink ). However, despite finding some comfort in finding out that some skiers never use them, I would like to continue with them as it does sound the more conventional approach and I may now be well on my way to doing something productive with mine.

Mike Pow, again thank you for entering into the fray and being willing to discuss your viewpoint even though I think it was clear from the outset that you appeared to be in the minority which is never an easy position to defend snowHead


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 29-08-13 20:03; edited 1 time in total
snow conditions
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Haggis_Trap, I love the shape the Canadian coach left in the snow - matched curves either side of the line. I'd kill just to be able to do ski the line like that let alone do the pole plants - I wonder if I ever will be able to?
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Megamum, pole planting doesn't make anybody into a great skier by itself, but I find there are definite times when it makes a significant contribution to my skiing (as well as finiding it a very helpful teaching tool). However, as Mike Pow has shown, there's more than one way to teach and plenty of room for different approaches and individuality when you ski. At the end of the day it is about outcomes (can you ski the terrain in front of you, and still be smiling when you reach the bottom) rather than inputs.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum, thanks for starting one of the most interesting debates on BZK for a while, certainly got me thinking.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I am not that this thread is asking the right question but I do think a number folk have put this type of view forward. The answer (for me) is not the pole pants are good and no pole plants are bad, in the same way the short turns are not better or worse then medium or long turns.

For me, i tend not to pole plant when i am carving and certainly not on low gradients runs. I find pole plants very helpful in the situations discussed above - powder, bumps, short turns. What I would say is that all decent skiers should have pole plants in their armoury to go along with the rest of their toolkit. Some extreme skiers have even suggested a double pole plant (on the same downhill side) for particularly steep/ challenging terrain. Fortunately or not, I don't have the confidence for the terrain or that particular pole plant!
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
SkiingQuinHat, double pole plants both downhill on steep terrain!? Who does that? I find regular double-plants kind of pointless but both poles downhill of the skier would be particularly unique.
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Meh, I may not have explained the double pole plant very well here! Remy Lécluse (now RIP is an avalanche) was a pretty famous mountainer. He did the double pole plant - the pole are down hill - but not on the same side. Perhaps you can see what I mean here: http://www.tvmountain.com/video/glisse/7711-triangle-du-tacul-glisse-pente-raide.html (around the 1:20 mark)
snow conditions
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
SkiingQuinHat, explained in detail in this clip:
http://youtube.com/v/_E2wBno6kpU
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
If you speak French - but thanks!
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
meh wrote:
SkiingQuinHat, double pole plants both downhill on steep terrain!? Who does that?


Aurelien Ducroz and our very own Admin edit: both double pole plant but not both poles downhill of the skis.


http://youtube.com/v/1h1bOcCUzCM[/b]


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Fri 30-08-13 10:31; edited 2 times in total
snow conditions
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
So just a normal double pole plant then. Smile
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
SkiingQuinHat, yeah you had me thinking of something almost ski ballet-esque!
latest report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
meh,
Quote:

almost ski ballet-esque!


those were the days, front flips over a double pole plant to the stomach!

I am sure its been said already, pole plants vary depending on what your doing and the slope your on, off piste and more freeride usually means there is a lot more movement in the arm rather than just a flick of the wrist as per small turns on piste.

The other thing I have found is that the fatter the ski the pole plant changes somewhat but hey I move my arms around too much anyways!!!!
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum wrote:


Mike Pow, again thank you for entering into the fray and being willing to discuss your viewpoint even though I think it was clear from the outset that you appeared to be in the minority which is never an easy position to defend snowHead


Thanks for posing the question and starting the discussion.

It's fascinating to read people's motivations to improve their skiing.

I've been very fortunate to train and become certified under two countries' systems - Canada and the US; receive instruction from British, Australian, NZ, Austrian, & Italian instructors; and ski with and observe ski racers and competitive freeriders.

I've taken all of that along with countless hours reading ski books and manuals and my 10 years of ski teaching and questioned what to me seems unnecessary, superfluous, and just down right wrong with many aspects of the learning process.

I work for myself and don't have to toe the line of any one ski doctrine.

I teach what I feel offers the safest, most efficient, logical and least physically taxing way for my students to have a great time on snow exploring more of the mountain than they previously had.

It's different and I know it's met with derision.

I explain the what, the how and most importantly the why to my students. They and I have been the recipients of the Nike school of ski teaching - "Just Do It" - which I've always struggled with.

My contributions to threads like this aren't intended to say that my way is right and the established way is wrong.

Just there is more than one way, and the one I'm presenting may be right for you.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
^ I don't doubt you are a great / enthusiastic and knowledgeable teacher.
However what your are teaching isn't actually that radical or different from the "norm".
i.e No pole plants until student can make basic standard parallel turns is fairly standard (in BASI / CASI / NZ etc)

Where the disagreement comes with is your suggestion that more advanced skiers wont benefit from proper use of poles in bumps, steeps and variable snow.
That is simply wrong - "no pole plants" will eventually restrict your ability to progress beyond a certain skill level.
Though being honest most "1 week a year" ski school students never really get to the level of proper off piste or mogul skiing.

I think you would agree skiing is a fairly simple sport.
Usually when people argue about difference in technique they are not thinking about the wider picture.
For example carved turns are a great technique for a groomed piste but on moguls you would turn the skis differently.
To become a good all round skier you need to learn all the skills and also where to use them (including proper use of pole where appropriate!).
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You're all missing this point, this is what it's all about - pole plants, twirlys and tassles.


http://youtube.com/v/-KCS2raOFFs
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Mike Pow, what troubles me is the way you promote the idea of not learning with poles as if you are the only instructor that doesn't, you thought of it, it's your magic instructing dust that you sprinkle on your clients and every other instructor is waiting at the door ready to plant a pair of poles into every client's hands the instant they've got their boots on (I exagerate, a little).

In fact, no instructor teaches the pole plant from day one and for much longer after that ... up to a point. After that point, you continue without it - fair enough, interesting to debate.

What I see in your videos is that your pupils do have their arms in "pole position" (great). Whether they're holding poles or not - at the level of skiing we've seen - for what they're doing it isn't actually necessary to make a plant/touch but if they knew how to pole plant, they would ski more dynamically and a lot more of the mountain (in other resorts) would open up to them. However, as you've already stated, your motivation for not teaching the pole plant or doing it yourself is, chiefly, the terrain you're skiing on and the aspirations you and your pupils have to not take it too gnarly. I read that as making the pole plant unnecessary in those circumstances - not all, as you seem to be espousing.

What worries me about that is that the inference less experienced/technical skiers could easily draw from the way you put forward your case is that skiing without poles means they don't have to think about their arms - and for many that will equal dropping them to their sides (a common issue). No one has actually suggested that - not you, me, no one - but my concern is that some reading will think "well that's me off the hook for having my arms up - it was difficult anyway, hooray" ... and continue with them by their hips - whether they're holding poles or not.

Isn't the incisive point that skiing with one's arms in "pole position" (low'ish, outward'ish and forward'ish) is best for stability - whether holding poles or not, whether planting/touching poles if you have them?
snow conditions
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Haggis_Trap wrote:
^ I don't doubt you are a great / enthusiastic and knowledgeable teacher.
However what your are teaching isn't actually that radical or different from the "norm".
i.e No pole plants until student can make basic standard parallel turns is fairly standard (in BASI / CASI / NZ etc)

Where the disagreement comes with is your suggestion that more advanced skiers wont benefit from proper use of poles in bumps, steeps and variable snow.
That is simply wrong - "no pole plants" will eventually restrict your ability to progress beyond a certain skill level.
Though being honest most "1 week a year" ski school students never really get to the level of proper off piste or mogul skiing.


"...there is nothing new under the sun."

- Ecclesiastes 1:9

I've taken what I've been taught and eliminated what I feel is unecessary for my personal skiing and for the learning experience of my students.

I've explored other sports and skill based activities and taken from those what I think will benefit my student's understanding of learning and skill acquistion.

The outcome for my students is safe, fun, efficient, exciting skiing that makes them feel happy.

I present my ideas to my students as alternatives to what they've already experienced (the vast majority of skiers I teach in Japan have skied before they meet me).

It's their choice if they trust me and my methods. Most do. Some don't. The ones that don't seek instruction from other instructors.

What I teach is not for everyone.

Your interpretation of "proper off piste" is different from mine. I've posted vids on this thread and vids and pics on my SR reports from Hokkaido of students successfully skiing ungroomed slopes with variable snow conditions and snow depths with or without natural obstacles such as trees and rocks.

To me off piste is any terrain that hasn't been pisted.


Quote:
I think you would agree skiing is a fairly simple sport.


Definitely. And as many threads on forums such as snowheads show, complexity is baffling most recreational skiers and limiting their enjoyment of the sport.

My goal when I teach, when I contribute to forums, and in the process of putting my teaching ideas to paper this summer is to demystify skiing and the learning experience.


Quote:
To become a good all round skier you need to learn all the skills and also where to use them (including proper use of pole where appropriate!).


That must be correct because you've already told me theat "no pole plants" is "simply wrong" above.
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
flowa wrote:
Mike Pow, what troubles me is the way you promote the idea of not learning with poles as if you are the only instructor that doesn't, you thought of it, it's your magic instructing dust that you sprinkle on your clients and every other instructor is waiting at the door ready to plant a pair of poles into every client's hands the instant they've got their boots on (I exagerate, a little).


I've already responded to this false claim of yours.

I don't normally make definitive statements on forums, but you're wrong.

I've never said any of the things you've written.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Mike Pow wrote:
I've already responded to this false claim of yours.

I thought your previous response (particularly the last line) did nothing but reinforce my point of concern, which is why I didn't respond to it, and you have continued to insinuate this is your brilliant idea since. It's irritating and insulting to other instructors.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Fri 30-08-13 11:20; edited 1 time in total
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Most arguments about ski technique arise when someone doesn't consider the bigger picture.
In this case Mike Pow assumes that pole plants wont help students, even when skiing in moguls or steeper terrain.
That is very questionable.
Keep on digging a deeper hole Wink

I am out.
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
flowa wrote:

What I see in your videos is that your pupils do have their arms in "pole position" (great). Whether they're holding poles or not - at the level of skiing we've seen - for what they're doing it isn't actually necessary to make a plant/touch but if they knew how to pole plant, they would ski more dynamically and a lot more of the mountain (in other resorts) would open up to them. However, as you've already stated, your motivation for not teaching the pole plant or doing it yourself is, chiefly, the terrain you're skiing on and the aspirations you and your pupils have to not take it too gnarly. I read that as making the pole plant unnecessary in those circumstances - not all, as you seem to be espousing.


I still find it confusing that if a skier carries their hands in "pole position...whether they're holding poles or not" and then adjusts their hand placement to balance with the mountain and snow conditions then this constitutes pole planting / touching.

Pole planting / touching may be essential for competitive skiers and skiers trying to pass higher level certification exams but I don't feel it's necessary for my personal level of skiing and the skiing level of my students.

I would posit that the majority of people reading ski forums are at an ability level comparable to that of my students.

I am under no illusions that I have neither the skill, experience nor expertise to teach high level mogul skiing, racing, park & pipe. If any of my students develop beyond my capabilities I'm delighted to pass them up to someone who can.

Here's a good example.

I don't teach Kai (the skier). He has his own instructor. I just film him


http://youtube.com/v/-JTN49xB_C0



Quote:
What worries me about that is that the inference less experienced/technical skiers could easily draw from the way you put forward your case is that skiing without poles means they don't have to think about their arms - and for many that will equal dropping them to their sides (a common issue). No one has actually suggested that - not you, me, no one - but my concern is that some reading will think "well that's me off the hook for having my arms up - it was difficult anyway, hooray" ... and continue with them by their hips - whether they're holding poles or not.

Isn't the incisive point that skiing with one's arms in "pole position" (low'ish, outward'ish and forward'ish) is best for stability - whether holding poles or not, whether planting/touching poles if you have them?


I'm happy you've written that I've not suggested that.

And I agree that what you call "pole position" is integral to stability on skis.

I just feel that the physical action and thought process of flicking the pole is unnecessary for the vast majority of recreational skiers.

That final statement is the one that we will disagree on until the last person to leave turns the lights out Smile
snow report



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy