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Ski instructor recommendations for Megeve?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm taking my 12 year old daughter to Megeve for a few days at the beginning of January and would like to book a few private lessons for her while we are there. She has been skiing for five or six years but missed out last year and is pretty comfortable on reds. Ideally a native English speaking female instructor. I saw there was one lady recommended in the ski instructor recommendation list but if there are any more recomendations they would be gratefully received.

Thanks for any help.
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ashton parker, can't recommend any individual, but in your place I think I' get in touch with BASS Megeve. bassmegeve.com
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Talk to Mike Beaudet, http://www.skiprosmegeve.com/ He transformed our technique last year. Not cheap, but very worthwhile.
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Ty Simon BUtler and his crew good bunch of guys & have a really good product

http://www.simonbutlerskiing.com/
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Another recommendation for Simon Butler Skiing. Female instructors available. As it were.
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laundryman, can you get ad hoc lessons with SBS if you are not staying with them?
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pam w, Yep he does, think they have a stand at the ski show this weekend too.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
simon butler's instructors got outta prison then Laughing
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eddiethebus wrote:
simon butler's instructors got outta prison then Laughing


I was only joking, but now it seems he maybe doing 4 months Shocked
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Is this story about Simon Butler then? If so, he also pleaded in court that he has no revenue, which doesn't sound great if you're thinking of paying a deposit. I realise people don't want to Wade through the ESF thread so here's the story from yesterday's paper again.



My translation - not by a trained translator nor a legal expert!

Quote:
The director of a business offering Brits all-inclusive holidays to Megeve once again appeared before the criminal court of Bonneville to respond to the usual charges of ski instructing in disregard of the laws and regulations governing the profession.

The British citizen who has undertaken this activity since 1989 is proof of a rare pig-headedness. He has for a long time feigned to be ignorant of the necessary procedures such as making an advance declaration of his business activities, something done miraculously after ten years of proceedings just a few days before this hearing.

He employs instructors who don't have the necessary qualifications, and doesn't respect community [EU] policy on seconded foreign workers. He has already been sentenced four times, including last year. That judgement was confirmed, in part, by the Court of Appeal of Chambery. He had been solemnly warned last year that checks would be carried out during the forthcoming season. Two took place the 27 Feb and the 2 April 2013, allowing it to be proven without doubt that he was still using his staff to supervise groups of British skiers, one even filming the skiers for evening debriefings.

After having ironically expressed his joy at seeing this British subject so regularly, the prosecutor quickly changed his tone. "As every year at the same time, he appears in exactly the same situation. He deliberately persists in ignoring French law. He doesn't understand - or doesn't want to understand - what we're asking of him. This die-hard wants to set up a British Empire in Megeve!" deplored the prosecutor before adding, "He has to resign himself to respecting our laws. When in Rome, do as the Romans do!"

This time it was the last straw and the prosecutor asked for a four month mandatory jail term and a 10,000€ fine. That amount, as with the damages sought by two groups of ski instructors, ought to be difficult to recoup as the accused, who is unable to provide his business accounts, claims to have no income - no doubt as a result of the crisis. Judgement is reserved until 2pm, the 14 November.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sat 2-11-13 11:45; edited 1 time in total
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i think so yes, well a member of his team anyway. I may of course be wrong, but to my knowledge megeve police have only "targeted" his company.
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albinomountainbadger, He has enough money to take them through the courts, & pay for a stand at the ski show! I think he is doing all right, I know Simon through skiing and know a few of his staff socially, If Simon was short on cash he would not be the sort to take bookings.

eddiethebus, There was more than one company hit for this a 2nd one in St Gervais was in the firing line of the local police.
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Fattes13, well interesting last paragraph of the article then, the director was unable to provide the court with accounts for his business saying it had no revenue...
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You know it makes sense.
who in st gervais? Shocked
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
albinomountainbadger, I am sure he has paid for the stand at the ski show in fairy dust & runs 2 substantial chalets in one of the most expensive resorts in the alps by paying wages and tax and suppliers in magic beans. Maybe the local French police dont like magic beans that might explain some of the issues.

What paper is that? How reliable is the reporting, It would be interesting to see the actual court transcripts, to support that claim. That said I can think of plenty of reasons why a business would not reveal its accounts in a court in case that is solely based on commercial interests despite what he esf would like you to believe.
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Fattes13, I don't doubt he has considerable assets, even if you do measure them in grains or magic potency. Which makes the reported denial to the court all the more interesting.

The paper is Le Messager, but I'm sure the others will cover it too.
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albinomountainbadger, My understanding of the story and the case details is that defendant refused to hand in his personal accounts as their was no legal requirement, but the company accounts were submitted to the courts, but of course a local newspaper would have no vested interested in reporting the story from a certain point of view or not giving full details as to benefit the ESF perceptive! Its also easy for you to publish something in a non native language to the forum to support an argument with no foundation or fact.

It is pretty bad from to question the liquidity of a business without anything to back it up! In fact it is bordering on the lowest form of Internet life.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
As far as my French permits, there seem to be a number of oddities in that article. Firstly, it states that Simon Butler has habitually broken the law relating to ski instruction in France. While he's certainly been charged in French courts for such offences, none of the charges has stuck. Secondly, while the prosecution is quoted, the defence has not been, which would seem to indicate the publication has a certain bias. Thirdly, it seems to state directly that he is guilty of the current charges, on which the court is still deliberating. I am not a lawyer, but I think that would count as a serious contempt of court in England. I have good reason to believe that other statements in the article are flat out untrue, but I'm not going to get in the business of reporting court proceedings myself. What I would say is that this case will go to Europe if necessary (as a similar case did previously), when it would be the French law itself under examination.
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Fattes13, I haven't made any argument at all, just expressed my view that I wouldn't want to give money to a someone claiming in court to have no income - would you? You're actually the one linking this all to Simon Butler with your insistence on knowing him and details of the case. I merely asked if anyone knew if the article was about him given his well publicised troubles in the past. I understand he had quite a surprising victory at such a tribunal a few years ago.

The paper is a local small news affair and as such of course it's biased against this holiday operator. The language used is very emotive and on a par with that the Daily Mail would employ if a foreigner had been accused of ignoring English law, but the quotes are from participants to the tribunal and I doubt they have the legal budget to risk just making these things up.

I posted the article in it's original language so that no one could accuse me of spinning it. Do try not to fall off your horse, sounds like quite a way down.

laundryman, the article doesn't once mention Simon Butler so saying it states anything incorrect about him is a bit rich.Yes though, the paper has jumped the gun in clearly deciding the unnamed director is guilty (Daily Mail again?) as the judges are now considering the case and will announce their decision in two weeks. As the hearings are finished and there's no jury I dont think there's any risk of contempt or such, but it doesn't go unnoticed that at no time does the article name the director or his business so perhaps they are just ranting.
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albinomountainbadger, yep Daily Mail playbook. Curiously, and unrelated, I've a pal who has successfully sued them for defamation.
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albinomountainbadger, You are casting aspersions in his income & questioning his liquidity, also he never said he had no income in court He refused to submit his personal account at but submitted the business books!
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Fattes13,nonsense. I'm sharing a published article relevant to this thread and discussing its content. Tour operators go out of business or have problems all the time, if that's happening to one in Megeve people reading this will be interested. You say that's not the case with Simon Butler. Cool, hope he and his customers have a great season.

I've now attempted to translate the article in the original post.
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Having just read the article, (and it is available on PDF, http://www.lemessager.fr/Actualite/Faucigny/ then go to the PDF area on the right in blue for €1); it is quite clear that this concerns Simon Butler and Simon Butler Skiing Ltd.

The main text is a precis of the facts of the case as laid out by the prosecution (procureur), followed by 2 direct quotes. There is no appeal yet since the verdict is due on November 14th at 14.00hrs.

There seems to be no substantial alteration of material facts in the article but of course since it is journalism, there is no reporting of what the defense have said. Simon was expecting this result, so is it any surprise that his company (presumably the French subsidiary) has no income? This kind of thing happens in the UK too before a trial. It would really surprise me if he does not carry on business more or less as usual and I would be even more surprised if clients money would not be safe.

That said, it is entirely possible he will get at least a small prison sentence for persistently flouting French law. It is not the local ski schools who are persisting with this action but the French ministry of sport, the article is quite correct in saying this has now been going on for over 10 years.
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albinomountainbadger, Now come on you can not fain innocence on this case from your translation

"The British citizen who has undertaken this activity since 1989 is proof of a rare pig-headedness"

"his die-hard wants to set up a British Empire in Megeve!"

This sounds like fair and impartial reporting all right, you have attempted to twist a very poor and biased media report and implied that a business has liquidity issues. The accounts you refer to are not the Business accounts they were submitted as requested. The defendants personal accounts were not submitted as there was no legal reason for the request.Even the article you have published sates he has submitted his business accounts.

"making an advance declaration of his business activities, something done miraculously after ten years of proceedings just a few days before this hearing"


Your behavior in this thread is certainly not in the spirit i believe this forum operates, and the comments you have made have no evidence to support them unless you can provide some it is very poor behavior on your part.

Saint, You know SB skiing has actually one two cases against the French all ready in that 10 year period?
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Fattes13 you need to slow down and reread the thread . You're carping now and your personal attacks are unwarranted.

Firstly, I *asked* if it was about Simon Butler. I never said it was true, I never said it was right, I never said it was fair, carved in stone or directly from the Bible. I said it was reported and gave you the source as proof that it was reported. I wasn't in the court, but I doubt you were either; if we're going to be arsey about it, where is your proof for the statements made in defence of your mate?

I said from the outset here or in the ESF thread that the language in the paper was emotive and I later made two comparisons to the Mail; a paper which is also offensive and biased but gets linked to in this forum every bloody day. Saints posted above and seems sure the article is about Simon Butler and that 'journalism' aside the facts are correct. If anything was legally wrong with the discussion so far I'm sure a mod would have acted, and if it was morally wrong the entire SH community would have turned this into a fifty page thread overnight.

So other than saying I would have reservations about giving money to *any* business that has told a court it has no income and who's director might get locked up during the season, what have I said to annoy you?

I appreciate it might hurt Simon Butler Skiing to have this sort of stuff out in the open but ski instructors who get arrested and taken to court make the news on a skiing website. I have no doubt whatsoever that if the director of this firm - Simon Butler or whomever - wins this case we'll be hearing a lot more about it.
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Fattes13 wrote:
the article you have published sates he has submitted his business accounts.


No it doesn't, it says he was unable to provide the accounts for his business. No mention at all of personal accounts. It could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time a paper made a mistake or something up.

And the line about a British Empire in Megeve is quoting the prosecutor, nothing to do with me. The rest is just the writing style of Richard Littlejohn 's béret wearing cousin.
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albinomountainbadger, You have questioned the liquidity and security of a business without sufficient evidence, or support. It is at best an attempt to attack a business at worst the lowest form of ill-informed internet commentary

I have quoted the article you published form your translation that states he has made a declaration of his business activities, which would suggest that he has submitted his business records and according to those familiar with the case the business accounts have been submitted to the courts.
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Fattes13, I haven't questioned the liquidity of a business. I've produced a report saying the director of a business has said he has no revenue. Take it up with the paper if you think it's wrong.

As for your second point, you've clearly misread it. The line you quoted isn't about accounts, I suspect it means business registration ('advance declaration') but don't know the ins and outs of French business regulations. The accounts bit is at the end; "the accused, who is unable to provide his business accounts..." In French, société means business/company, fournir means furnish/provide and incapable means incapable/unable.

You say this is also wrong. Fine, take it up with the paper too.

If the article is proven wrong I'll apologise for sharing it and delete every comment I can about it. So where's your transcript or other proof?

Edited for clarity.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Sun 3-11-13 14:01; edited 2 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
O.K. it's Sunday morning and I have a bit of time. There is nothing wrong with Simon Butler's business model, indeed all of his clients that I have spoken to love his services. The fact that he has been in business for such a long time proves this.

Let us put this into context, it is not unusual under these circumstances to claim "no income". Simon's declaration was that of the type of business he was running not of his liquidity or otherwise of the business itself. This in a way is a bit if a red herring because all if this will come out in the wash on the 14th November.

On the legal side of the court case let us give some back ground to the whole issue of skiing and guiding in France, a "ski guide" was arrested in the three valleys for taking groups on the mountains, for payment, without being either a) a ski instructor, or b) a high mountain guide.

Under French law that is that, whether we agree or, not the law is black and white and has been there for a long time. It was the police who prosecuted, not the ESF, who were just joined onto the action as an "injured" party by the invitation of the prosecutor.

Simon was originally, (over 10 years ago) prosecuted for running an illegal ski school, and in spite of paying heavy fines he eventually won on appeal by being able to show that his model of ski school and the instructors he employed was not that much different from the French model. The original complaints came - mainly - from the ESF. The ESF then took no further action.

Then came a random control by the French sports ministry. These happen regularly, all over France, they are not announced in advance and are there to make sure local ski schools are following the regulations. It was found that among the teachers Simon was employing were those who were not fully qualified and should be stagiares, or trainees. Simon's ski school, under French regulations does not have training status. 1) there are not enough Instructors and 2) They are British qualified, so although they have the right to work they do not have the right to act as trainers under the french system. This current prosecution is a follow on from that and is in the hands of the French sports ministry.

It is Simon's viewpoint that he should be allowed some trainees. At the moment under French regulations this is not the case. The regulations will have to be looked at under European law if anyone has the money to pursue it that far. I believe BASI are doing so, but the process is a long one.

Therefore according to french law Simon is running a ski school in an illegal fashion. The instructors themselves then run the risk of prosecution as in the case of the "ski guide" since they are taking groups on the hill without being ski instructors or being official trainees registered with the sports ministry.

Simon's model, since it falls outside French regulations means that according to BASI regulations, any instructor working for him who has not an ISTD is operating outside of their own BASI qualifications. This is because any instructor who is not an ISTD must work within a legal ski school environment.

I hope this helps.
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Saint, would you elaborate on how claiming no income is normal? Bit confused by that.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This is just a personal point of view you understand.

If I were to be in danger of paying a huge fine i would make sure my personal income in France were as near to zero as possible so the amount of the fine was lessened.

The same would apply to a company I controlled, then with a new company - business as normal. I have no doubt the court will ask for proof but action like this is in the way of damage limitation.

I am not saying there are no moral issues but that is why I do not believe Simon Butler Skiing in the UK has liquidity issues.

French companies are there to pay local bills and taxes not to make profits and the overseas holding company holds the capital and operating money.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ah yes, by normal I was thinking you meant 'standard business practice before a court case'.

I'd no idea there was a Simon Butler Skiing in the UK, that would obviously calm any fears re client cash but if that's what's going on I'm not sure I think it speaks well to his character. If I get caught speeding by a policeman I have to pay the fine, I can't just close my local account and say all my cash is in England.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 3-11-13 11:33; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yeah you can incorporate business in one country and set up a subsidiary in the other. And while the subsidiary provides the service you can run the income through the main company accounts.
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never summer, yes but the idea behind that is to facilitate international trade, not to let people flout the law and evade fines when caught! Guess everyone is taking a cue from Google/Amazon etc these days.
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albinomountainbadger,

Agreed Smile
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Quote:

I'm not sure I think it speaks well to his character. If I get caught speeding by a policeman I have to pay the fine, I can't just close my local account and say all my cash is in England.


Again with personal attacks, bad form and you are starting to look like you have some personal issue here. The example you gave is daft! if I get pulled over in France for speeding I pay the fine despite having no assets in the country, now for my business despite working a large % of my time in a EU nation I dont pay tax or have accounts there as I am non resident. Its called the common market! Its one of the core tenants of the EU.

If you want my proof go read the court transcripts, SB has submitted the business accounts to the courts as they were requested to by the court.
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Hi, have you a link for the court transcripts please they would be much more helpful than a rather vague news article.
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Fattes13, I've nothing personal in this at all. I only keep posting here because you're essentially saying I shouldn't share an article or form an opinion based on it because you don't like it and think it's wrong. You haven't produced anything as evidence that it's wrong though, just what you think yourself. Did you do this to everyone sharing the Mail, Telegraph and Standard articles attacking the French?

As a gesture of goodwill and some balance for any newcomers still reading this, here's another link to that Telegraph article covering SBS troubles back in April; it's at least as biased as the French one above, some might say more so: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9969385/Outrage-sweeps-slopes-as-British-instructor-faces-year-in-jail.html
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ashton parker wrote:
I'm taking my 12 year old daughter to Megeve for a few days at the beginning of January and would like to book a few private lessons for her while we are there. She has been skiing for five or six years but missed out last year and is pretty comfortable on reds. Ideally a native English speaking female instructor. I saw there was one lady recommended in the ski instructor recommendation list but if there are any more recomendations they would be gratefully received.

Thanks for any help.


Did you go to megeve then? We went to megeve last year and was confused about which ski school to choose as they all seemed pretty good and charged pretty much the same. We finally and booked with Ski Technique Megeve (www.ski-technique.co.uk) they were surprisingly good value for a private ski school. The instructor who gave my children a full day ski lesson was called Glen, and they were really confident after the day long training. We are planning to go this half term as well but couldnt book with them as they are full already Sad

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