 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Definitely a 'Shred Head'.
I'm never too sure what to make of this type of segmentation. On the one hand, it means that you're more likely to be offered the trip that you want at a price that you can afford. On the other hand, it can be used to hide cheap deals from people who are deemed to be price insensitive.
I suspect that we shred-heads are the least attractive type of visitor: we make full use of the facilities and don't spend a great deal of cash. Perhaps that's why I've failed to find any attractive offers from Vail Resorts in recent years - although I ski in North America most winters, it's been more than 10 years since I last visited one of their powdery paradises.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm an Alpine A lister who can't afford to be so a shred head or a c lister
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The attitude in the writing only confirms my intention to never ski at Vail again, I don't want to be 'messaged to' or feel that skiing is all about coming down to the lodge and trading stories. It is flat, full of cat tracks and town is souless - there are way better options in that area that cost less.
Ski resorts hate serious skiers who generally never take lessons, never eat at their overpriced lodges and never rent gear.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| narc wrote: |
| Ski resorts hate serious skiers who generally never take lessons, never eat at their overpriced lodges and never rent gear. |
Ooooo. So serious skiers never take lessons?
<Kicks>
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| So serious skiers never take lessons? |
Very good point. Any serious skier who's taken serious lessons knows how good a point that is, and it made me think: since doing BASI in 1975 I've not subscribed to that point sufficiently.
St Anton's 'official' ski school has a popular model which could be emulated by other ski schools for serious skiers: classes and instructors at the top end who do nothing but ski off-piste all day, at ski school prices. Admittedly, the focus isn't on instruction, but it certainly addresses a safety argument (better to ski with an off-piste qualified teacher if you don't want to fork out for a guide). Ski schools should always adapt their services and prices to the market ... and cater for 'serious skiers' too.
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Well if those 3 categories represent their entire ski base I don't know where all the self catering families fit in 
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Given that I was a passholder at a Vail resort* last season and don't think I spent a cent there otherwise I think I'd probably fall into a further category of "parking lot tailgater scumbag".
Anyone who doesn't think resorts that take marketing seriously aren't trying to pigeonhole you is a bit naive although in Europe there's less of the cake at stake to individual parties.
* Kirkweed tends to have a bit of a different "culture" to the furs and fundies of Beaver Creek. Plus it's still early days of Vail ownership there and while they've already got rid of good things like ski patrol sodas, easy lift mazes and introduced gestapo like ticket checking even when you've been lapping the same lift all morning, while some good guys with history are still in management positions it's got a chance at retaining some "soul".
PS Epic Mix is IMV total c0wdoo. I did have some photos taken by one of their piste donkeys who scanned the pass but couldn't access them at all because I fell at the first hurdle of not having a US zipcode associated with my account. Way to appeal to international vistors with your enhanced value offerings 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Vail is a resort that gave me the impression that it is really a holiday resort selling mainly the real estate (upmarket holiday homes). In order to attract buyers the skiing resort was thrown in as one of many attractions. This may be untrue but that was the impression I got.
It has its own television channel advertising real estate of mega buck properties.
The entire Vail skiing resort has no free parking space and that is intentional. None of other Colorado resorts I visited does that.
Many local skiers/boarders refuse to go there because the attitude towards to the budget spenders.
It comes no surprise that their IT people would research the punters spending habits and assess the depth of their pockets for the potential buyers of their mega buck properties.
I suppose many skiing resorts become famous because their expensive properties and accommodations and not what they got to offer in term of skiing. Places like Zermatt, Cortina d' Ampezzo and St Moritz are also expensive places to visit but you do get breathtaking scenery and extensive terrain. As for Vail it is unique for fronting the busy i70 motorway longitudinally and great for skiers/boarders enjoy seeing cars from miles away.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| narc wrote: |
| Ski resorts hate serious skiers who generally never take lessons, never eat at their overpriced lodges and never rent gear. |
Ooooo. So serious skiers never take lessons?
<Kicks> |
I wrote "generally never". Ask the guys at TGR how many lessons they took last season, ski resorts are not getting much cash from this group taking lessons.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Correct. Don't know about vail specifically but many US resorts are wholly owned and operated by a single company who also control leaseholds of businesses. They close lifts at 3 so people will have nothing else today in late afternoon but go shopping
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| They close lifts at 3 so people will have nothing else today in late afternoon but go shopping |
They also "sweep" the piste so you don't end up in a valley with no way out after the lift had closed!
| narc wrote: |
| ...full of cat tracks... |
Like...?
Care to name a few?
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 27-06-13 20:49; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Anyone who doesn't think resorts that take marketing seriously aren't trying to pigeonhole you is a bit naive |
+1
What Vail is doing is no different than google tailoring the advert to you based on which site you've been visiting.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
| narc wrote: |
| ...full of cat tracks... |
Like...?
Care to name a few? |
Not really something I keep mental notes of where I ski somewhere once. Suffice to say this is mentioned in many reviews too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
ski resorts are not getting much cash from this group taking lessons.
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Uh? So, no income from accommodation, restaurants, bars, lift passes, etc.?
They're all going rando and sleeping in tents eating ready meals?
I really don't think so.
Just because someone who thinks they can ski tolerably well tips up doesn't mean the resort isn't profiting from it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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She does have an alien about to erupt from her mouth doesn't she? I mean, those are NOT human teeth!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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under a new name, I have no idea if it applies to Vail, but very common in the US for skiers to stay in motel far from slopes and drive to resoirt everyday with packed lunch in backpack
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peanuthead, with teeth like that?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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peanuthead,
Skiing in some European resorts like Austria and Switzerland is no different from many American you described. People ski there as weekends recreation.
Visitors going to Vail, say from Denver must pass through Loveland, Arapahoe, Keystone, Brenkenridge and Copper Mountain. i can't think of any feature Vail has while the other haven't except zero free parking space!
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saikee, I think you are right about Vail and it is one of places people go to and stay in unlike eg Utah resorts, but I have never been there.
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Bones, but clearing slopes before dark applies in European resorts too. Personally I would not be enthused about flying 9 hours and having to stop skIing at 3 when used to going till 5!! But maybe I'd be so jetlagged I'd be happy to finish then
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Quote: |
ski resorts are not getting much cash from this group taking lessons.
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Uh? So, no income from accommodation, restaurants, bars, lift passes, etc.?
They're all going rando and sleeping in tents eating ready meals?
I really don't think so.
Just because someone who thinks they can ski tolerably well tips up doesn't mean the resort isn't profiting from it. |
Of course they are profiting but as much as a family visiting at peak time due to school holidays with two kids in ski school and 4 family members on rental gear who eat lunch on the mountain each day? Not really.
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| Bones, but clearing slopes before dark applies in European resorts too. Personally I would not be enthused about flying 9 hours and having to stop skIing at 3 when used to going till 5!! But maybe I'd be so jetlagged I'd be happy to finish then |
The big difference is that the US resorts also sweep the slopes that would be regarded as off-piste in Europe. That naturally takes a lot more time and needs much better light. Having said that, I've never seen a lift close as early as 3:00 in the resorts that I've visited over there. 3:30 seems to be the norm for the highest lifts, with lower lifts closing at 4:00. I'm usually on the first lift of the day and I don't linger over my lunch, so I'm normally ready to quit by then anyway. No problem.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Having said that, I've never seen a lift close as early as 3:00 in the resorts that I've visited over there. 3:30 seems to be the norm for the highest lifts, with lower lifts closing at 4:00. I'm usually on the first lift of the day and I don't linger over my lunch, so I'm normally ready to quit by then anyway. No problem. |
Unfortunately, I have. Telluride closes almost all of its remote lifts at 3! 
I'm like you, early rise to catch the first lift and quit with plenty of daylight still left. I've never had much problem with lift closing time...until I went to Telluride!
In fact, the lift closing was so unusually early that everyday, there'll be a line of skiers standing at the bottom of those stopped lifts. They would run it again to bring up the ski patrollers once they finish sweeping the whole basin a particular lift serves, together with the all customers caught in the sweep. That could be a rather long wait standing at the bottom of the lift. And by the time you finally are back at the top and ski down the front side, those lifts are about to close too!
Telluride is a beautiful mountain but the lift closing time was the worst I've ever experienced! Fortunately, that's more an exception rather than the rule. Most resort do START closing lifts from 3pm on, but not ALL their remote lifts altogether at exactly 3!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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peanuthead, yours is an irrational complaint rarely actually heard from those who've spent tome skiing in N America (provided they've not been too lazy to snag first lifts). It has to be an exceptional day for the slopes to be busy after 3pm anywhere in N America (barring the odd homerun). Either this is because the locals are not conditioned to long days or,alternately, that they get plenty of skiing in in the time that lifts are open. Plus 3pm is a fallacy, up North and far from base sure (e.g. Whistler) in midwinter but for the majority of the season elsewhere 4pm is a common minimum.
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| Quote: |
get plenty of skiing in in the time that lifts are open
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This could well be true. Everything in Alberta is at least an hour before it was in UK, get up at least 1 hr earlier, everyone at work by 8, lunch noon, even 11:30 if its some kind of corporate lunch. Leave work early. Start skiing early, finish earlier (4pm in alberta usually). People seem to start going home from 2ish. Ready for the big night out which starts at 5pm. Eating evening meal early.
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You know it makes sense.
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gryphea, I have driven into some small towns in the US (small enough to not have a McDonalds etc) and found that after 7pm is too late to get a meal at the local diner. Usually there's a bar where you can grab a burger or something but otherwise it's gas station cuisine
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, what can I say? I just like to ski 3 to 5. (And 830 to 3 also). Funnily enough I like an early lunch (12-1). I tend to get second wind in afternoon and my best skiing is 3-5. I am not complaining. I am just going somewhere lifts are open 3 to 5.
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Poster: A snowHead
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There're plenty of good reason why one wishes the lift are open after 3. Heck, I'd like to see lifts open till 7! Towards the later part of the season, sometimes it takes a while for the snow to soften enough to be enjoyable. And if there's light till 7 anyway, I'd love to take advantage of it if possible.
But there're just as many good reason why a mountain chooses to shut the lift at 3. Sweeping the area is as good as any. Especially in early season, it starts getting dark around 4 so ski patrol really had their work cut out for them!
What's irrational is to attribute the early lift closing to some random reason that bears no relationship with reality. All it shows is the ignorance...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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abc, cmon! You live in NY so you should no how things work. You really think that the owner/ operator of a ski resort who is selling lucrative commercial leaseholds for an arm and leg doesn't have an agreement with those businesses re what time they are closing the lifts at?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| abc, cmon! You live in NY so you should no how things work. You really think that the owner/ operator of a ski resort who is selling lucrative commercial leaseholds for an arm and leg doesn't have an agreement with those businesses re what time they are closing the lifts at? |
Not all ski resorts are setup that way. In fact, the Vail model is more of the minority rather than the norm.
Yet, almost all mountains closes their lift at about the time frame of 3-5. If your arguement is true, there would be many more mountains closing later since they have no such "agreement".
Do you REALLY THINK a family owned ski hill in the middle of nowhere has some hiden agreement with a merchant some miles away to close their lifts early so the skiers will go shopping in an unrelated shop???
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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abc, I have no idea re your last point. I've never been to a family owned ski hill in the US. Didn't even know that existed
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| fatbob, what can I say? I just like to ski 3 to 5. (And 830 to 3 also). Funnily enough I like an early lunch (12-1). I tend to get second wind in afternoon and my best skiing is 3-5. I am not complaining. I am just going somewhere lifts are open 3 to 5. |
Also half day tickets are much much cheaper
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The main tourist places in CO are.... mainly tourist places. Gosh.
I think you should encourage the people who spend a couple of hours a day on the slopes and who fund your tickets. Even the coolest places you've never heard of have marketing people. Those that don't, don't exist.
The idea of people skiing in the dark, or when the snow's turned to schmoo in the late season sun is kind of funny, but it takes all sorts I guess.
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| abc, I have no idea re your last point. I've never been to a family owned ski hill in the US. Didn't even know that existed |
You haven't been to one or know one. That's why your allegation of Vail's reason for early lift closing was baseless as a result.
It's a simply common practice in ALL ski mountains in the US, whether it's corporate selling leaseholding to merchants, or family run ski hills.
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| abc wrote: |
| ... early lift closing ....it's a simply common practice in ALL ski mountains in the US, whether it's corporate selling leaseholding to merchants, or family run ski hills. |
And it is very frustrating to find that lifts are only open for 6 or 7 hours in a day (in March!). 8+ hours is normal in Alps. But I suppose if they ran the lifts for longer they'd make the lift tickets even more expensive 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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going back on topic (!) I am still struggling to understand why a commercial organisation running a coherent client profiling campaign would be newsworthy.
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That really is a tissue thin article.
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FAQ
Frontside lifts are often open to 4.30.