Poster: A snowHead
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Asfinag, the operating company of Austrian motorways, has announced that tolls must be paid for the short section (6 kms) of motorway at Kufstein from the German/Austrian border to the exit Kufstein Süd as from 1st December 2013. Details here (in German). I don't understand the logic that removing a special case situation in Vorarlberg means that another special case here should be stopped but that seems to be the way it is.
This means that those using the autobahn to the Kufstein Süd exit, e.g. going to the Skiwelt, Kitzbühel, Schneewinkel or areas further away down the St. johann in Tirol road will have to buy a vignette before driving the short section or exit the autobahn before the border and add to the traffic jam through Kufstein.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The way I understand is all road users travelling on Austrian motorways need to pay toll in the form of a vignette (for specified days) which is significantly cheaper than the Swiss version (for one year). Therefore all motorways are tolled in Austria. This is nothing new.
Certain busy sections near cities or borders are exempted but this will be changed for the above section from the German border to Kufstein Sud. Obviously visitors travelling from Germany to beyond Kufstein, say to Mayrhofen, Innsbruck, Stubai Glacier, Solden, St Anton etc...., need to buy the vignette regardless. Your concern is really for those who come from Kufstein, join the motorway at Kufstein Sud and want to go to Germany will have to buy the vignette from Dec 13. These will not be the locals who need to travel on motorway regularly. If the visitors need a vignette to come in they should not mind to pay the same to get out, or buy enough days to cover the exit trip, I would have thought.
That section is the busiest of the Austrian road in the winter season and is very difficult to patrolled. I suppose it is time for us to stop at a Germany services to get the vignette before crossing the border as being caught without it will attract a heavy fine. If this goes ahead I anticipate the Austrian police will mount a road block to pull vehicles at random to check. It will create a huge traffic jam if they interrupt the traffic at peak time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They already do road blocks and stop every vehicle, but further along towards Innsbruck. I expect they'll do checks at the Kufstein exits.
It'll possibly increase traffic on the non-autobahn route. I do wonder what percentage of the traffic at that border is just for those few km.
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The available vignettes (toll stickers that have to be stuck on your windscreen), with next year's prices (for cars) are:
10 days - €8.50
2 months - €24.80
1 year - €82.70
As saikee says, the situation hasn't changed for anyone going further down the Inn valley who thus needed a vignette anyway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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andy, it will definitely increase traffic along the B171 with loads of Germans exiting the autobahn at Kiefersfelden and travelling through Kufstein. They will be joined by the Dutch (notoriously tight-fisted and favourite victims of ASFINAG ) and other Scandinavians. So their choice is either stop-go along the B171 or paying less than 10 Euro for the pleasure of driving the distance between Kufstein-Süd and the German border.
I really can't see what the problem is to be honest and I'm a local who regularly shops and fills my tank by making a short hop over the border. I have an annual vignette as it is good value for money but the visitor has the advantage of buying the 10-day or 2-month options, again both damned good value for money, especially compared with the Swiss one and French tolls! One thing it probably will do is increase trade in Kufstein which currently seems to be slowly dying in terms of retail outlets. Wörgl will also benefit which will comes as a nice change for the big stores on the Innsbruck side of town - retail park there near the swimming pool has been expanded a lot in recent times as have other new ones on the St Johann side, so I can see the reasoning behind this change.
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So ita a toss up wasting time coming off the autobahn and queuing up to but one. Or getting off at Kufstein North and driving thru Kufstein itself.
Then on the way back again either going thru Kufstein or going onto the autobahn at the South Junction. There`s currently no where the Police can stop you and check before you actually go on . If they stop you on the slip road technically your not on. And if you were turning right to go on you would see the police and not go down the slip road.
During the day, heavy traffic long queues at Services, probably not bother and come off and go thru Kufstein.
Late at night, no traffic, so why waste time stopping to get one, come off at Kufstein.
Either way, its not going to increase revenue if thats what the aim is.
The only good thing for me is that if you need a Vignette, because you currently don't on that section, it may take drivers who are going to the Salbach/Hiterglemm off that route and move it onto more back roads.
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No queuing to buy one, but parking up in the services.
Actually, thinking about it, if you choose Irschenberg services, you may well queue up to park, then queue up to exit, and if you really want to pay more, then queue up to buy fuel too.
I get mine from Holzkirchen autobahn services - available in the cafeteria.
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Kufstein Nord is, I think, too late; that is already on the Austrian autobahn. You would have to leave the autobahn while still in Germany, the Kiefersfelden exit, I think. The more sensible approach is to grin and pay up, I feel - the cost is negligible in a ski holiday. I do think the basic aim is to increase revenue (or maybe just removed a costly anomaly in the system). But you do need to know to buy the vignette in advance, e.g. at the Kiefersfelden service station.
Don't expect necessarily to be stopped. I think you may also just be photographed and receive the bill later at home (that can certainly happen for driving offences, though I'm not sure if it is possible for not having a vignette - it certainly works that way within Austria). The fine for not having a valid vignette is €120 (€240 for having fiddled with the vignette). Full details (in German) here.
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Im talking about the entry onto the Autobahn going North at Kufstein South
There is no where there to pull you over. They could introduce cones before entering and do a check there, but the queues back into Kufstein might give the game away.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jafa, they will just use the gantry cameras as espri said. They are not that silly to be honest and major roadworks being carried out on the bridge that actually marks the crossing will allow them to make any adjustments required. The Inntal Service area could be the display or pay pull off area. A camera on the slip road would also be easy to install - they are going wild with them as permanent speed cameras along the length of the A12 as it is - did you know there is an average speed one on the section leading up to the Zillertal exit? Making a small fortune for ASFINAG apparently
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Political pressure is being made to reverse the decision to introduce tolls on this section (details in German here). Probably we should just wait and see what happens before December.
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espri, I'm expecting it to go through this time - everyone I know here who does not have a Jahres-Pickerl will use the back roads to carry on as normal. This is the second or third time they have tried to do this since I have lived in the region - I think time they will push it through as they need the cash it may generate (either in tolls or fines! )
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You know it makes sense.
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....yep all the comments regarding the swiss vignette are spot on ....it's HORRENDOUSLY expensive ... after all, if I live North of BirminghamI get in the car, drive down the M6 toll, (3.00) cross the Dartford Crossing to get to Dover (2.00) and then go down through France (around 40gbp in tolls) and then buy the Swiss Vignette. So in England (return journey) I pay 10.00 for one trip to the Alps. In France I pay around 80gbp for one trip, depending on route.
In Switzerland I pay 28 gbp to use the WHOLE MOTORWAY NETWORK ALL YEAR.
So can you all stop this nonsense about the Swiss Vignette being expensive - it isn't, for what you get.
We do 5 trips to the Alps each year, from Cambridge. We spend 20gbp in tolls in the UK (dartford crossing), around 400gbp in France, and 28gbp in Switzerland.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Quote: |
the comments regarding the swiss vignette are spot on ....it's HORRENDOUSLY expensive ... |
It's all relative valais2. For a weekend trip/short break a Swiss Vignette is about four times the price of the cheapest (short-stay) Austrian version.
I usually hire a car at Geneva (vignette included) and ski in France. But if not doing so, and collecting/returning a hire car to/from the French sector of the airport for example, I would object to paying a year's toll for a weekend trip involving a few miles of Swiss motorway. I know we're only talking about the price of a few large French beers - but it's the principle. Or maybe I'm just tight .
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Poster: A snowHead
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Seems a good time to again recommend my favourite company - get sorted before you get there, they will post you what you need, for when you need it, so you have it before you leave, never had a problem with them: http://www.tolltickets.com/
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 22-06-13 13:01; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum,
yes ... they work very well
mountainaddict,
...yes, spot on it is all relative - and you are right about v short trips with only on person in the car.
For us (four up) the cost of the swiss vignette is 5 trips divided by four people = 1.25gbp ish per person per trip.
yes all relative, but important to get a bit of objective costing into the skiing cost models....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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valais2 wrote: |
In Switzerland I pay 28 gbp to use the WHOLE MOTORWAY NETWORK ALL YEAR.
So can you all stop this nonsense about the Swiss Vignette being expensive - it isn't, for what you get.
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It's going up to 100CHF in a year or so, unless the Voters can mount an effective objection, and force a rethink. There (may) be a 2 month option at 40CHF.
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snowbunny, ...indeed....first increase in 17 years. So in fact (as per my earlier post) it's the cheapest leg of a tolled journey to the Swiss Alps. Even at 100chf for us it means about 2.10 per person per journey to Switzerland which is heaps cheaper than the French leg of the journey.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I started the argument that Swiss Vignette is expensive because the I was comparing with the Austrian vignette which as espri figures confirmed can be bought for a number of specified days thus lowering the cost.
Anybody who pays tolls on French, Italian and Swiss motorways would know the Swiss vignette represents "good value for money" even on a long single trip let alone the benefit on multiple trips. What is more the Swiss vignette permits the vehicles passing through some of the most spectacular engineering feats like the mountain passes. You will appreciate if you drive bikes or motorbikes in their mountains. Switzerland used to have the world's longest road tunnel 10.2miles long at St Gortthard and it is free with a vignette no matter how many times one passes it through. The road construction, safety and workmanship of the Swiss motorway is the best one can find anywhere in the world. The Swiss also put more effort to clear the snow. I used to travel to Chamonix via the Col de Forclaz mountain pass which is about 50% Swiss and 50% French owned. Often the Swiss section was completely "black" (no snow) whereas the French section was mostly white (snow not cleared completely).
I for one prefers the Swiss Vignette and proud of leaving them in successive years on the front screen.
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saikee, Absolutely right.....spot on
I have a friend who gets his beemer (2 wheels) onto the stops on the curves up Simplon - fantastic surface on the Swiss side...he gets off with the Big Grin....worth every penny (centime)
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I was hoping that Megamum, would get here before me and quote the website for getting the vignette in advance - thank you for that - we have successfully used that site after you posted it before and it was very successful and much easier for us to get the vignette at home than faff about going into a garage before the border. We will need one for NY and the ten day charge is very small, only a couple of bowls of soup, or beers.
I hope that the voters in Switzerland do mount an effective objection to the 100 CHF charge for their vignette as we get one of these each year for the trips down to the airport to pick up friends or relatives.
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I just choose a services near the border for a convenient pit stop to buy the sticker. Since it's about 3 hours of a 5-6 hour journey for me, it's about time to stretch the legs for 5 minutes anyway. Asking for a toll sticker when I pay for a coffee and cake is no faff. Still, I guess some prefer to have everything 100% sorted before leaving home.
The proposed Swiss price hike could be a PITA. I tend to do Switzerland once in October, and again in the ski season, so 2x 1-month tickets would be a bit steep. Slovenian one was bad enough - why couldn't they make the 1 week ticket at least 8 days or preferably 10, like Austria? So now for a 1 week holiday you need 2 week stickers, or a longer duration one. And before they changed it, you could get a 3 month sticker for the same price.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'll be heading that way on the 1st, will be a bit later than that though. I have just pm'd Sue asking about this today! Looks like I will be going through Kufstein as I'm only going as far as Niederau.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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valais2 wrote: |
snowbunny, ...indeed....first increase in 17 years. So in fact (as per my earlier post) it's the cheapest leg of a tolled journey to the Swiss Alps. Even at 100chf for us it means about 2.10 per person per journey to Switzerland which is heaps cheaper than the French leg of the journey. |
It got voted down
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You know it makes sense.
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Quite a lot of fuss about €8, isn't it? And if lots of tight-fisted drivers get off the motorway, those paying will gain even more.
The Swiss vignette would be quite expensive, indeed, if you only needed one for one trip from Geneva Airport to the French resorts, but then the exceptionally simple answer is not to use the motorway - it really isn't difficult. If you CBA to look at a map and see how the route through Geneva works, then pay for a vignette. It would certainly be extravagant to pay €100 ( if it goes up) just to drive to and from the airport once or twice.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, Totally agree! Most of my German friends say it is a matter of "principle" but I know they are just being tight-wads. It will all change when the toll comes into force here!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Great thread! All the info I was after! Thankfully remembered I needed to check up on this one, rather than wing it!
Just purchased the 10 day Vignette from http://www.tolltickets.com/ (thanks Megamum) in anticipation of a late evening drive from Munich to Kirchberg on 10/01. There's a small fee of €2.10 on top of the €8.50, but worth it for the convenience of not stopping en route, and losing VDT, or if even later, sleep!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Quick question while we are on the topic of Austrian tolls.
I'm coming into St Anton from Bregenz through the Arlberg tunnel. I see there is a toll to get through the tunnel, do you have to pay for a vignette on top of that or is that all you need to get to St Anton on that route? Also what are the queues like around Mid - late Jan?
Cheers
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Tunnel tolls are on top of any Autobahn tolls
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kosciosco wrote: |
Quick question while we are on the topic of Austrian tolls.
I'm coming into St Anton from Bregenz through the Arlberg tunnel. I see there is a toll to get through the tunnel, do you have to pay for a vignette on top of that or is that all you need to get to St Anton on that route? Also what are the queues like around Mid - late Jan?
Cheers |
You will need the vignette, costs less than €9 for 10 days. If you use the tunnel you would then have to pay the toll for that on top. You don't have to take the tunnel though, you can take the Arlberg pass instead, leaving the S16 just before (signposted for Langen a A.). Would depend on the weather though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi. We're travelling from Rotterdam to garmisch on 27th December. Our route takes us briefly into Austria, along the 179 and 187 before getting back into Germany.
Will we need a Vignette for this stretch? Have looked on the toll master website but can't tell if needed of not.
Thanks.
Mark.
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No vignette needed. Surprised that the route goes via Austria, though (but I don't have a map handy)
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They are being rooted down to Füssen via the A7 Andy, that's why! Then back into Garmisch from the south side. It is the theoretically "fastest route" because it is autobahn the whole way. But it is not calculating the waiting time at the Reutte side of things. I'm not 100% certain but I believe the Fernpassstrasse is a "Schnellstrasse" and therefore "Mautpflichtig" (you have to a valid vignette). I know I have seen signs on the Fernpassstrasse warning that it requires a toll sticker, but I have never entered it from Füssen, only from Garmisch.
Markmcn, You can avoid the Austrian bit if you come off the A7 at Memmingen and pick up the A96 towards Landsberg am Lech. The road to Garmisch is signposted at Mindelheim and is the B16, which is the equivalent to an A-road in the UK. I really don't think in the long term it will make much difference in terms of total time as the B16 is a fairly fast open road if I remember correctly. The maximum speed is 100km/h, but you may not be achieving that anyway on the autobahn as there will be a huge amount of traffic heading to them thar hills as of the 26/27th December. If they have not already departed for Christmas in the mountains, the Bavarians particularly leave on the first working day after the 2 holidays. As do the trucks that have been kept off the roads during the bank holidays!
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