 Poster: A snowHead
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We sent a letter to school last week saying our two (10 &7) wouldn't be back first week of term (4 days) in Jan and we haven't heard anything back. On that basis we're working on the no news is good news policy!
They already missed 9 days this term when we went to Rio but that was approved by the Head as it was to welcome their mother into port at the end of her first (and only!) trans Atlantic ocean yacht race.
Judging by the plethora of comments above, we're pretty lucky....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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BUMP
Just in case anyone is interested - looking at the online system, kids were all marked down as Family Holiday Unauthorised
No follow up as yet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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No names, no pack drill but my office has a childrens Christmas party during working hours on what should have been my youngest's last day of term. I rang his school office and told them that I knew about the new regs and asked them what the best approach would be. The v helpful school admissions/attendence person asked me if the day at my office could be described as 2educational" in anyway. She suggested I email her potining out that my son would learn about office life, understand what a working day is like and experience coommuting etc. I got a swift response granting leave of absence for the educational visit.
It may help that my son has not missed a day's school in the last three 3 years though.
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Boris, tell them about your caravan if the pursue you, travellers seem to be allowed to take kids out of school.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We took a little chap up on the Rosta lift in Les Gets yesterday - quite a chatterbox - and I asked him if he was missing a week of school to be here. Oh yes, he said. Well you are very lucky, I said. My Dad sponsors the school - was his response. On the I of Man - perhaps they are open to a bit of bribery over there!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Pamski, You meet a different class of people skiing 
If I could I would just take kids out of school and phone in sick for them. If kids dob me in when they get back to school so be it. I doubt the school would kick off.
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Just wondering if anyone did decided to take their kids out of school in the end?
Would be interested to know aggressive different council areas have been in issuing / enforcing fines for ski holiday absences??
Hope everyone had a good season!
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Oski ended up taking about 11 half-days off this winter. All were marked as " Approved Sporting Activity" - although I'm sure one day was marked as "Educational visit or trip".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Having read a number of the posts it seems there are varying rules and application of the new legislation regarding unauthorised absenteeism from school. I paid an absolute fortune at half term this year....and the jury is still out as to whether I'd do it again next year at such an expensive time.
That said we did really did have a ball....lots of other kids about for my son to knock about with (albeit wild in some cases!). I expect there's always going to be children about what with varying dates in school holidays etc. The price we paid compared to the potential fine was massively disproportionate. I didn't request time off school....for fear of repercussions. Our head teacher is an arrogant back bottom. I very much doubt he'd consider such a thing. However, on reading the school policy on the topic, it seems that the authorisation decision takes into consideration overall attendance. My boy has been absent twice in his entire scholarly life (almost 8yrs old) . Surely that should have some bearing on the decision?
Anyways....flat stony broke now, so we will see what next year brings! Am still working on the nation we will clear off to live over there at some point. Cogs are in motion....preparation and all that 
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alyefs, Our daughter took the three grandchildren out of school for the week before half term - the two eldest (9 and 7) came skiing with us, and the youngest (5) went to Center Parcs with her parents and kid brother. Absence was marked as unauthorised, but no action of any sort was taken. They do all have very good attendance records though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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alyefs, have you read the education authority guidelines? Essential reading if you are considering this. Might give you some useful info over and above what the school itself has provided (though the school might have faithfully mirrored the guidance, of course).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As pam w, points out, certainly check with your Authorities guidelines as they are the ones who could fine you, the school can't.
Just to add to this, a few things I have seen over the last few days:
Some schools are asking for GP notes for any illness over a couple of days, Mrs B, who is a Practice Manager, has had a few requests from schools local to her work. As the Practice is not funded to provide these, as they all require GP time, they have contacted the schools concerned and said any requests would be chargeable - in the same way as they are for you or I if we requested a GP note for less than the 7-days self-certified sickness currently allowed. Parents have (rightly in my view) refused to pay and the schools won't either - so maybe that policy won't last long.
Have also seen this floating around on Social Media
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Boris,
I've no idea quite what the parent/GP is on about. The schools were not requesting that children be treated for viral infections, given antibiotics or even be given any medical advice. They were asking for confirmation that the children are genuinely ill. One can only assume that the schools feel the need to do this because they strongly suspect that some parents are lying to the school about the reason for absence. Short of demanding a sick note how are the schools supposed to identify those who are genuinely sick and those who are not?
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You know it makes sense.
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foxtrotzulu, They take the word of the parents, just like an employer has to do for the first 7 days of sickness.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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foxtrotzulu, sorry, yes wasn't clear, point was many schools are asking for proof as they suspect parents are lying and/or would lie to take a few days off in term time. The point I was making is that GP surgeries don't seem overly keen in supporting the schools in this as it is taking up appointments for no valid reason. I.e. children with common viral infections don't need to see a GP
It adds, IMO, to the mess that this new policy is.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Frosty the Snowman,
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foxtrotzulu, They take the word of the parents, just like an employer has to do for the first 7 days of sickness.
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I have a feeling that employers can still demand a sick note within the 7 day period if they suspect an employees absence is legitimate.
Boris, The new policy does seem to be a bit of a mess. To be fair, many new policies within schools/businesses/families/whatever can be a bit of a mess at the start and suffer teething problems. That doesn't necessarily mean the policy is wrong. I suspect that the total number of days lost to term-time holidays (whether honestly notified or not) will still drop significantly under the new rules. That is a success in itself. However, I do accept it's going to take time for the cultural shift to take place where parents accept that term-time is for school and holidays are when you are meant to go on ...... holiday. In the meantime we will inevitably end up with daft situations like this and regrettable moments when parents get fined for failing to ensure their children attend school.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have a feeling that employers can still demand a sick note within the 7 day period if they suspect an employees absence is legitimate.
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They can (we do) but employer has to pay for these as a GP will charge
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| I suspect that the total number of days lost to term-time holidays .. will still drop significantly under the new rules |
A numeric success in reducing the school-wide average possibly, but I have seen no evidence that it will improve the attendance of those kids whose parents really don't care whether their child is in school or not.
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RobW,
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A numeric success in reducing the school-wide average possibly, but I have seen no evidence that it will improve the attendance of those kids whose parents really don't care whether their child is in school or not.
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You may well be correct, but that was never the point of the new regs. They were clearly aimed at reducing the amount of widespread, but low level, absence due to term-time holidays.
Boris,
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They can (we do) but employer has to pay for these as a GP will charge
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A £12 charge will be significant to some, but not very many. I also suspect that the sick note requirement is probably not very widespread and may even be targeted at certain pupils. Anyway, I can't see this particular requirement catching on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I also suspect that the sick note requirement is probably not very widespread and may even be targeted at certain pupils
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maybe just the suntanned ones? 
To be fair though - you are making a lot of assumptions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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foxtrotzulu, Children particularly school age young children get a lot more viral illnesses than adults Why on earth send lots of kids to spread their diseases at a GP's surgery when you suspect a few are lying and the doctor probably cannot tell with any certainty when they are anyway and will just dish out a note.
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T Bar, Agreed. This doesn't seem to be a sensible approach. My point was more that although this particular move by one/some schools may be daft it doesn't mean the policy is.
Shimmy Alcott,
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| To be fair though - you are making a lot of assumptions. |
Indeed. To make up for it I have done a little research just now. I could only find a couple of references to schools demanding sick notes for brief absences and both of them relate to 2012. That's hardly proof, but it seems a good indicator that instances of schools demanding sick notes are very few and far between.
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Like a lot of the stories doing the rounds I'm sure it has been exaggerated. However Mrs B has seen a handful of requests this school year, that is fact.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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just read a fb post from a primary school teacher "take it your back from Australia"  maybe some teachers need a bit more time in school
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How on earth are you meant to even get a GP appointment for a sick note? The earliest appointment I could get (with the nurse, not even the GP!) was in 2 weeks time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I can't get an appointment with the nurse
Damn restraining order
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
You may well be correct, but that was never the point of the new regs. They were clearly aimed at reducing the amount of widespread, but low level, absence due to term-time holidays.
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Which is not tackling the real problem. Whilst the "new regs" are aimed at easy targets to make the school statistics look better, they do little about tackling the actual problem kids who aren't there 10/20/30% of the time.
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RobW, +1, well said.
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You know it makes sense.
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RobW, + 2
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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RobW, +3
The much talked about Independent Report DID NOT recommend these new rules, they suggested tightening up on the old rules and only allowing holidays where child had greater than 95% attendance. But as you say, this is about making the stats look better, not tackling the problems
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Poster: A snowHead
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RobW, persistent truants are one problem, but widespread low-level absenteeism is also a problem. Look at the independent reports, read what the head teachers have said, ask teachers about the disruption caused by term time holidays and you'll see that this is a genuine problem and not about statistics as you suggest. However you look at it, getting more children in school for more of the time has to be a good thing.
I simply fail to understand how asking children to take their holidays during the holidays could be remotely controversial.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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as I have said earlier somewhere in one of these threads - niece, whos Mum is a teacher, 50% attendance. No action. Patient also said the same thing about their Grandchild.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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foxtrotzulu, I read the Independent Report - it didn't suggest changing the rules - just cracking down on the existing guidelines.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I simply fail to understand how asking children to take their holidays during the holidays could be remotely controversial.
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foxtrotzulu, we will never agree, but IMO you are simply failing to see that in some cases it is genuinely not possible
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boris, yup, one of our members of staff today saying hubby cant have any leave in August - that leaves one week at the end of July for potential summer family hol...I suspect requests for that week will be very high and so many will not be accommodated.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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foxtrotzulu, ok sorry I was being flippant, so genuine question for you.
I want to take my kids to get involved in Le Grand Depart in Yorkshire, go to the various events in the build up and generally get involved with the biggest bike race in the world and the 3rd biggest sporting event in the world. I am a keen cyclist (in my yoof I competed at National Champ level) and the kids have inherited some of that love. I genuinely feel this is a one-off and would be immensely beneficial in a wider educational perspective.
But I have been refused the one day I asked for to facilitate this - although I am going in any case
Under the old rules I am sure this would have been approved, now they will mark this as unauthorised absence
Am I wrong in taking them to this?
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Boris, unless it coincided with a strike day then yes, you are wrong 
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Am I wrong in taking them to this?
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Absolutely not. Neither is the school wrong in noting it as an unauthorised absence.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would have done the same Boris.
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Boris, As you say, we will probably never agree, but I do genuinely accept that there are occasions where a family may be completely unable to get away for a week's holiday. In many cases that would/should be covered by the term 'exceptional circumstances'. In other cases it just may not be possible.
These cases are extremely rare. As Shimmy Alcott illustrates above her family may be unable to get away for a family holiday this summer (July and August). That still leaves three half term weeks and all of the Easter holidays and all of the Christmas Holidays.
Regarding the Tour de France. As I understand it the Grand Depart is on Saturday the 5th so I can't see much if a problem. Do I think the previous days 'build up' events (of which the official website makes no reference) merit missing a day's school then the answer is probably 'no'.
Arguing about individual days is a bit meaningless. As I have said previously a day here or there is not the end of the world, but since a coach and horses was driven through the old rules I can understand that there was little option but to crack down in this apparently heavy-handed way. People had come to regard it as normal to take term-time holidays because it was more convenient/less crowded/cheaper etc.
By the way, it is a moot point as to whether the rules have actually changed. The crack down has been to allow holidays only in exceptional circumstances as opposed to special circumstances. Cheaper holidays or the TdF hardly count as 'special circumstances' unless you are actually competing.
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FAQ
