 Poster: A snowHead
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I simply can't understand how anyone can disagree with what Easiski is saying, or why people keep trying to offer examples of possible exceptions to the rules. As she pointed out, the rules are complete common sense and quite analogous to the rules of the road while driving.
If either one of the two people involved in the proposed situations was following the rules, probably 90% such accidents or near misses would be avoided. If both people follow the rules, you get an extra safety factor and probably 99% of the problems would be avoided.
Problems occur when person #1 assumes that person #2 will be following the rules, so person #1 doesn't have to bother following them himself. The problem is that person #2 often will make the same assumption, so now you have two idiots on a collision course.
For example, if skier #1 doesn't stop in the middle of the piste around a blind corner, and/or skier #2 slows down for the blind corner, then there is no chance for a problem.
However, when idiot #1 thinks he shouldn't have to slow down for the corner because no one should be standing there, and idiot #2 thinks they should be able to stop anywhere they damn well please because the downhill skier always has the right of way, that's when you have a problem.
While there might be a few very unusual situations not covered by the above, I really don't see why this general principle is that hard to comprehend. ...unless, of course, you always think that you are more important then everyone else in the world. 
| easiski wrote: |
| Physicsman, I hope you didn't get sprayed! |
BTW, in line with the above, and to lighten things up a bit, I presume everyone has heard this famous story of peeing and skiing?  
Actually, I was present at an un-embellished version of the above incident in Steamboat in the late 70's in which no one was hurt in any way (except pride) or wound up meeting later in the emergency room, but a trail of yellow was indeed left in the snow by a poor woman with her pants around her ankles. 
Tom / PM
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As someone getting into the intermediate level I have found that on blue/red runs it is easy to pick up too much speed when carving to feel fully in control when the slopes are very crowded. But by heading onto steeper slopes and bumps you can push your techniques on less crowded runs and slow down your skiing speeds. Just something to think about for those who are beginning to get the buzz from speed but who may not have the experience to do this without putting others (and indeed themselves) at risk.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Physicsman, nice story, I actually hadn't heard that one before 
But with regards to the "if both people are following the rules, accidents won't happen" comment, I see some problems. The main problem lies with new skiers. These are people just going for a holiday, who have never heard of the FIS, nevermind knowing it's rules, who don't know how important lessons are, who don't knowing how dangerous skiing can be, etc. These people will hit the slopes, probably out of control and possibly without lessons, not because they're back bottoms, but simply because they're not part of the ski world and don't know any better. I think you have to cut them some slack.
Also, sometimes people skiing within their limits can still lose control, and can cause accidents without it really being their fault.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ponder wrote: |
| ...These are people just going for a holiday, who have never heard of the FIS, nevermind knowing it's rules, who don't know how important lessons are, who don't knowing how dangerous skiing can be, etc. These people will hit the slopes, probably out of control and possibly without lessons, not because they're back bottoms, but simply because they're not part of the ski world and don't know any better. I think you have to cut them some slack.... |
That's exactly right, and certainly I do cut them slack. That's why I said (in an earlier post, towards the end of the first page of this thread):
"...The newbie gets my help, a few words of wisdom about slope safety (including their own) and lessons, and is then sent on their way. The reckless person gets my wrath (not rage)...Folks between these two extremes of behavior (e.g., a teen on rentals who has only been on skis for a week bombing a green run in a high-speed, no-turns-possible power wedge) get treated between the two extremes of response..."
In this vein, one of my best "education sessions" was made the day before a PSIA certification event in Vermont. A bunch of us had arrived early, and were practicing low speed manditory moves on a flat beginner hill. A 20 y.o. from somewhere in the south is yo-yo'ing the same little lift. It's his first few hours on skis, and his routine was to get to the top of the lift, and then point'em straight downhill, picking up speed until he falls over and crashes. He did this time and time again, crashing at the same point each time, and laughing each time he falls over, obviously greatly enjoying the experience. It was getting more crowded, and it became obvious that at some point he was going to plow into a little kid and cause some serious harm, so I decide to give him some words of wisdom.
I catch the next chair up with him and start a conversation. I complement him on his ability, especially considering that this is his first day on skis. I then comment that since he obviously likes going fast, he might want to consider racing, but that no races are ever set straight down the hill. I go into a little explanation of how anybody can go fast when going straight, but only the best skiers can keep up when they are forced to turn around "the little flags", so he should practice making lots of tight turns. I take a couple of runs with him and give him some pointers, but then have to leave.
When I came back a few hours later, this dude is still skiing the same slope, except that now he is making a zillion turns and not falling. I complement him, take him up to the next lift, and make sure he keeps doing the same thing. I figure I did a service to society that day. 
Tom / PM
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Physicsman, I figure you did.
Off topic, I worked with a chalet girl once who claimed the "urban legend" started with her!
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| easiski wrote: |
| I have also seen a peeing lady coming out of the trees - but mine was going forwards! I wonder how common it is? |
A friend of mine from university did this when we were in a big group in Soldeu (although she skid out of the trees backwards). It's probably the funniest thing I've ever seen  I laughed until I hurt.
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| Physicsman wrote: |
I simply can't understand how anyone can disagree with what Easiski is saying, or why people keep trying to offer examples of possible exceptions to the rules. As she pointed out, the rules are complete common sense and quite analogous to the rules of the road while driving.
If either one of the two people involved in the proposed situations was following the rules, probably 90% such accidents or near misses would be avoided. If both people follow the rules, you get an extra safety factor and probably 99% of the problems would be avoided.
Problems occur when person #1 assumes that person #2 will be following the rules, so person #1 doesn't have to bother following them himself. The problem is that person #2 often will make the same assumption, so now you have two idiots on a collision course.
For example, if skier #1 doesn't stop in the middle of the piste around a blind corner, and/or skier #2 slows down for the blind corner, then there is no chance for a problem.
However, when idiot #1 thinks he shouldn't have to slow down for the corner because no one should be standing there, and idiot #2 thinks they should be able to stop anywhere they damn well please because the downhill skier always has the right of way, that's when you have a problem. |
YES, YES, YES! Thought I would quote this again for emphasis of an excellently stated bottom line. 
It is this simple, but unfortunately, I think we all are occasionally guilty of selfishness that makes us think that we should be absolved from responsibilities to enjoy ourselves in a carefree manner Hopefully we learn from our near misses and never face the situation of harming somebody else and knowing that we knew we knew better - but carried on in a reckless manner 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My moment of piste rage:
Romania (Predeal), some years ago. I was 21. I see about ten guys, all around my age, not skiing down the piste but sliding down on plastic bags. This was a red run and at the speeds these guys were reaching, you could've called them human cannonballs. So I stop next to a couple of them and tell them what they're doing is dangerous and anyway not allowed on the pistes. I get told off and their manner gets menacing, so I go off. Somewhat later, much further down the run, I see one of them wiping out a woman skier. Now I'm furious. I stop to ask the woman if she's ok, fortunately she was although that guy had effectively taken out her legs from underneath. So I ski away, get in a tuck until I get some serious speed and I approach the offender (still sliding down fast) and when I'm close I adopt a 'beginner completely out of control' pose and start shouting 'MAKE WAAAAAY!'. The guy actually manages to turn his face towards me and let me tell you, his expression was priceless. I got right next to him and changed direction by pushing him with my outside ski...then skied off as I didn't want to meet his mates!
OK perhaps actually hitting him was not a good thing to do...but I'm still glad I did it.
My moment of shame:
The only time I hit someone was also long ago...fortunately I wasn't skiing fast at all, just too fast for the conditions - a thick fog. Someone materialised out of thin, sorry thick air in front of me, I swerved and avoided him, a second person did, swerved again and skied straight into a third...fortunately I managed to pick her up to soften the impact and wiped out underneath her so she had a soft landing...I apologised profusely (didn't get her number, very stupid of me as she wasn't bad looking) and went away after making sure she was ok.
Good deed to even out the one above:
I'm near a piste junction, I see out of the corner of my eye someone schussing down (beginner-style) coming from behind me to the right, first move is to slow down to avoid collision, then I see to my left and in front a girl, about 8 yrs old I guess, so I speed up again and straight into the path of the speeding skier...he took me out and we slid about five yards to my left - we almost hit the girl...I had a sore hip for the whole afternoon so I shudder to think how hard he could have hit the girl. He heard a few choice words from me...but for some reason I didn't fly off into a rage ... he looked like a beginner who needed someone to tell him to be much more careful.
And a puzzle for easiski and others - how do you apply FIS rules to this one?:
Last chair up, me (about 15) and Dad, we start going down an empty run that has a majestic pine tree right in the middle, he goes to the right, I go to the left, as we emerge underneath the pine tree we realise we're skiing straight towards each other...my Dad takes evasive action by changing course downhill...but see genetics is at work here so I change course in exactly the same way, with the result that we're now skiing faster and still towards each other...so in the last microsecond I duck and he tumbles over me...I wasn't badly hurt and couldn't stop laughing, while my Dad was going off 'like two idiots! only the two of us on the whole piste! like two clowns!...'
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Re all the peeing & skiing incidents that are now surfacing, perhaps those of us who have seen this should petition Snopes to change this from legend to fact. 
Tom / PM
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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easiski,
| Quote: |
It's not really a question of LDA being a particularly dangerous place. I suppose to a degree it's hours/days weeks and percentages. There's also the factor that when in charge of a group we are responsible for their lives. Most people, if they hit someone, see it coming and try to stop. Snowboarders often fall over deliberately. Most accidents are thereby avoided, and if someone is properly contrite and the person who has been hit is not hurt, then obviously the anger is momentary. What I see happening more and more every year, is that the person who caused the accident will turn around and some something along the lines of "they turned in front of me" doh! The whole point of ski-ing is turning. Inexperienced skiers are far more likely to do something odd at the drop of a hat, but you can see them as you approach, so it shouldn't factor.
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I agree totally with your sentiments; it is just that it struck me that being hit once a fortnight is a fairly high rate of attrition. I obviously don't ski nearly as much as you but it sounds like bumps in L2A are more common than at the times and places that I ski. 
| Quote: |
If someone's an inexperienced skier then they should take advice from their instructor about where to ski and what to practise in between lessons. You don't improve by trying harder and harder slopes without the technique necessary to cope with them, or the increased effect of gravity.
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Again I don't dispute this but at some point virtually everyone will come accross a steep slope on which they may fall even taking decent precautions, I was wondering if any collisions as a result of a fall and subsequent collision if you have slid say 100 feet are regarded as an accident and nobodies fault or are considered the fault of the uphill skier?
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 11-11-05 11:44; edited 2 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Physicsman wrote: |
Re all the peeing & skiing incidents that are now surfacing, perhaps those of us who have seen this should petition Snopes to change this from legend to fact.
Tom / PM |
My tale is definitely fact. I'd not heard other stories about this, but I can vouch for my story which took place Soldeu, early January, 1989.
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| Cedric wrote: |
| ...he goes to the right, I go to the left, as we emerge underneath the pine tree we realise we're skiing straight towards each other... |
Don't feel bad - I did almost the same thing with another instructor.
We were both in a clinic and concentrating on performing the assigned task. Because of snowmaking, we couldn't hear very well, and our peripheral vision was restricted because we were both wearing goggles.
In our case, we heading down the hill at a very good clip, not turning far from the fall line, but fortunately, we were both matched just about perfectly in downhill speed. He goes to the right of the lift tower, I go to the left. About 100 feet downhill of the tower, I'm at the right-most apex of my turn, and he is at the left-most apex of his turn. The only problem is that at this point, his skis and my skis are only a couple of inches apart, but perfectly parallel and never once touched. What did touch (much to the surprise of both of us) was our shoulders. Once we regained our composure, we hammed it up a bit (arms around each other, etc.). When we got to the bottom some of the other instructors started yelling at us to "get a room" 
Tom / PM
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I go to the left, as we emerge underneath the pine tree we realise we're skiing straight towards each other...my Dad takes evasive action by changing course downhill...but see genetics is at work here so I change course in exactly the same way, with the result that we're now skiing faster and still towards each other...so in the last microsecond I duck and he tumbles over me...I wasn't badly hurt and couldn't stop laughing, while my Dad was going off 'like two idiots! only the two of us on the whole piste! like two clowns!...'
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Would have piad good money to see it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A couple years ago I finally got around to skiing and spent the first week in the PDS, Switzerland. I ride sportsbikes and drive rather quickly and seem to enjoy speed a little to much, so before the trip my wife and in laws went to great pains to tell me how careful I needed to be and how dangerous it would be colliding with people. I'm the sort of person that played rugby rather than football as I didn't have the finsse to tackle someone without dropping them.
A couple of weeks before going someone took another skier out, in Aspen I think, and was charged with manslaughter. This was pointed out to me numerous times as a warning of how easy it was to have an accident. The final result was that I spent the week looking behind, to the sides, underneath and everywhere I thought someone might be. I still managed to take my wife out, not badly luckily, whilst skiing down a gentle run as she made a turn in front of me that I didn't expect and being a beginner, didn't see it coming.
I still ski like this now, but not quite so badly, looking all around and paying a lot of attention to what others are doing. Behind me aswell as in front. The main difference is a bit more experience in reading what other people are going to do.
Beginners may well think they are skiing within their abilities and even keeping their observation up, but a lack of experience/ability to read the situation can/will lead to collisions.
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Poster: A snowHead
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T Bar, I don't actually mean I'm wiped out every fortnight, but certainly run into (may be perfectly innocuous of course).
However, one of the problems of teaching is that you actually have to look at 3 things at once. the slope (to choose the best line for your clients), your clients (so you can say something useful to them when you stop), and the other skiers on the hill (to keep your clients safe). In most cases I wouldn't be hit if I was freeski-ing, but I/we are not. Therefore, if you think about it, you'll see that ski teachers are at much greater risk of being hit by another skier than people free ski-ing who can change direction at will. This is supplementary to the percentage chance of being hit just from hours on the snow. In additon the consequences are much more serious for us because it can ruin a career completely. (I know people this has happened to).
I don't know how many hoursPhysicsman, works, but in high season we're teaching 8 hours per day. that's a lot more time than most holiday skiers are on the snow (think about coffee and lunch etc.) the pistes are saturated and, because it's holiday time everyone's trying to ski fast since they had to queue for the lift. (Actually this doesn't make sense as the slower you ski the more ski-ing and less queuing time you have!)
Cedric, Priceless - I'm glad neither of you were hurt! We actually did have a serious accident here some years ago in vaguely similar circs. 2 male instructors, one from the ESF and one from the UCPA were ski-ing the Valentin - no-one else around, they got all "testosteroned up" and started to show off. Carving very fast on opposing arcs. Inevitably they crashed in the middle on one arc. Broken arms, ribs, dislocated shoulders, and one broken neck followed ...... fortunately the one who broke his neck is OK (not displaced). Both lived to tell the tale, but they were apparently really hammering. That was stupid, but they were both equally at fault IMO.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hmm, Ski rage , suffered once when a chair above le praz in the 3V broke down and a whole hill was trying to get up a poma. Resultant queue was enormous, but the ESF in thier infinite wisdom kept running classes through thier priority line, blocking anyone else. After 50 mins of no moving in my punters queue - I forced into the ESF queue and blocked it when it came to the merge point letting everyone through up to my party. An instructor finally forced his way through and barged me out of the way and jumped the poma. I took the next poma up and told him exactly what I thought of his behaviour in bad french, yes I was raging, no it wasn't sensible, but hey it was the ESF - that great gift to world skiing.
I have been hit and knocked down 4 times in 27 years skiing - never my fault . Once by my wife in zermatt ( her fault - she apologised !) Once ( in the 3V) by an older gentleman with helmet, who in clear visibility lost control and knocked/used me to stop, at the edge of the piste. He was getting one to one from and ESF instructor who had the decency to apologise for her and her client. The shocked client tried to blame me for standing in his way at the edge of the piste! - but I told him where to take and stuff his confusion - i also gave a lecture on FIS rules to him. It was poss the only time I was ready to hit someone, he was mad, and I was bloody sore from being hit in the shoulder/ribs by his stiupid bloody helmet. Another time in Tignes on an empty slope I was merrily carving turns down the middle at speed. Noone below me enjoying the first couple of quiet runs. Bloke came from behind and took me out completely - my wife rescued my gear that was strewn all over, and I felt to see if anything was broken. He had the decency to apologise and new he was in the wrong ( he was french - another ESF success?). Last incident was a couple of years ago in zermatt again - skiing short turns at the side of the piste minding my own business when I was lifted off my feet ( I wiegh 14 stone) and deposited on ground in heap by an 8 stone woman skiing staright tthrough me,and then lying in a heap 20 m below. I stumbled around picked up my kit, picked up her kit and walked down to her. i checked she was ok, then gave her a lecture - she burst into tears. Her prat bloke and friends accused me of causing the accident, i calmly told him to f*ck off. My wife had seen her career round the bend behind me and take me straight out . My skiing skill was dismissed coss I was a brit ( they were german/swiss deutch) but again a short lecture on FIS kind of shut them up . Anyway I am a much better skier than they were ( I saw them ski away in a hurry - badly). So there are plenty of idiots out there, all shapes,ages and sexes. Rage happens easily - its part of the shock response,and many people don't realise that the skier in front has no idea you are behind them at speed.- the ESF does loom large in my "bad" experiences of skiing though
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This whole "uphill skiier/boarder is responsible" is all well and good unless or until the accident is caused by the downhill skiier/boarder !! I'll quote you a couple of examples. One happened to me in Ellmau two years ago, when I was picking my way though a steepish gully on my board fairly carefully as there was a lot of ice about that morning and it was very rutted. I'd noticed a learner skiier who was way out of her depth holding her small group up as they made their way down ahead of me, so I gave them a wide berth. As I got with 20 metres or so and was planning to go around the outside of the straggling skiier, I noticed her catch an edge and wipe out, so I slowed down and was going to help out when another member of her group skiied across, stopped beside her and motioned me to carry on with a cheery wave. Just as I got level with them (and I wasn't going fast at all!) she suddnely pushed herself up with her skis pointing downhill meaning she shot out from behind the bloke standing next to her and straight into my path... I just had time to sit down heavily and flatten my board out so I didn't catch her with an edge but she still got a whack on the side of her leg that she complained loudly about. Fortunately the bloke with her berated her soundly for her stupidity in not checking behind her first and standing up with her skis pointing downhill, but my point is that I could have very easily injured her and I've have been the "uphill" party in this case. No way on earth was it my fault!
The second incident was at Isola 2000 where two runs crossed. This time a skiier coming from a run downhill and to the right (it was the end of a blue "road" which was an alternative path down to the red we were on) decided to turn abruptly to go off-piste and take a small-ish bump at high speed which ended up in him landing 10-15 ft into the red run we were on. He missed me (at about waist height) by about 2 ft and collided full on into my mate who was a short way to my left. Fortunately neither party was seriously injured, but once again, the accident was caused by the person further down the hill who should have looked before leaping...
You cannot tar everyone with the same brush on this and say that it is ALWAYS the uphill skiier/boarder at fault. It is always the fault of the least vigilant slider, in my book...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="easiski"]ponder,
Scarpa, forget about carving until you sort your stance out.The probable reason for feeling out of control while you're carving is that your weight is too far back and therefore you don't have control over your skis. (Thinking from EOSB). BTW changing your trajectory without losing your edge in a carve is really quite tricky.
quote]
Yup - I remember your advice and have been working on balance exercises eg gym cross trainers with hips in forward position and balance/stability cushion work. Can't wait for Jan to see if it has helped. When it does work for me carving just feels sooo good  Cheers!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski, aha. Entertainment, linguistic improvement as well as ski instruction
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| easiski wrote: |
T Bar, I don't actually mean I'm wiped out every fortnight, but certainly run into (may be perfectly innocuous of course). However, one of the problems of teaching is that you actually have to look at 3 things at once. ...snip...
I don't know how many hoursPhysicsman, works, but in high season we're teaching 8 hours per day. ... |
About 8 hours per day here as well - I usually teach from 2 PM to close at 10 PM and only rarely will I not have clients. Easiski's comments on the frequency of collisions also sound about the same. Ignoring the ultra-low speed "collisions" where you intentionally let rank beginner kids ski directly at you and you hug them to stop, I probably also have a "noticeable" collision roughly every couple of weeks of teaching.
Another risk enhancing factor that Easiski didn't mention is that when stopped, our instructors usually stand on the uphill side of their class rather than downhill from them. This is so that if there is a problem, the instructor gets hit first.
OTOH, when in this position, I have developed a humorous defensive move that occasionally works for low to moderate speed people who have already fallen and are headed in my direction, feet first. For teaching, I use a pair of ancient, but indestructable, ultra-strong long Al poles with old fashioned saber grips. These are easy to get on and off and protect my hands. When someone is sliding my way feet first, and I can't move because that would expose the class, I dig the tips of both poles into the snow far uphill of me, and then crouch down under the little ramp that they form. The skis or board of the incoming person ride up the ramp formed by my poles and never touches me. The humorous part comes if I get the angle too large, and their speed is too high - a couple of times, they have ridden right up my poles and basically did a head stand - much to the amusement of everyone. Ahhh ... such are the simple pleasures of ski instructing.
Tom / PM
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Simple solution - strap a cheap plastic sledge onto your rucksac and adopt a defensive crouch similar to that of a cowering hedgehog. With your head facing down the slope and your poles well planted below you... you instantly transport yourself into ramp leading the out of control skier/boarder to launch themselves high into the air. By adjusting the angle you may then score points for distance flown, inverted 360's etc.
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Scarpa, LOL - sounds like the excuse I need to flail my arms madly and shout in the hope that an innocent skiier will instantaneously form a nice kicker for me...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Richie_S, They also inhibit conversation on chairlifts!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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While not exactly on topic, on my very first skiing holiday abroad at Courchevel we "lost" one of our class. Our instructor spotted her right across the other side of the piste and a bit below us (it was a wide piste). He decided to "teach her a lesson" and shot off across the piste straight for her, his intention being to stop just in front of her and shower her with snow. Unfortunately the shower of snow wiped her out, just then our missing girl appeared behind us having got lost, the wiped out girl was having a private lesson with an ESF instructor. Our instructor apologised profusely and returned to us who were by now all pissing ourselves laughing. I know it could have been serious, but it was one of the funniest things I've seen skiing and still makes me smile now.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Just as a matter of interest, here in Switzerland most sliders yell out before they pass you to let you know which side of you they are going. Eminently sensible - except, of course, for those who can't live without their muzak. And if you do go over here, someone will ALWAYS stop and help you, recover your errant ski/pole etc. I've never experienced that once in France.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Calling out "On your left!" or "On your right!" also used to be S.O.P. here in the states, and was both useful and courteous. Unfortunately, the practice has fallen from favor (along with many other forms of courtesy). In the past few years, I've probably only heard it a handful of times, and then, only from older skiers.
Tom / PM
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'll generally call on your left/right on cattracks or any other narrow piste. Main problem is that because its not commonplace in my experience I've a 50% chance that an inexperienced person swerves the wrong way in reaction increasing my chances of collision!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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(talk about thread derailing, but ignoring that)... fatbob, I know exactly what you mean. My workaround is to call "on your left" twice, about a second or two apart, the first one loud, but from ~ 50 feet back. If the person ahead doesn't suddenly veer or fall down after your first call, you can be pretty sure that they will react the same on your second call, when you truly are just about to pass them.
Tom / PM
PS - If you DO want to derail them, make sure the first call is, "On your left!", but your second call is, "On your right!".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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eng_ch, do they call out in French, German or Italian? Or English?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We really only ski in the German-speaking parts so it's German. "Links!" or "Rechts!" Bloody useful
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How do you tell the nationality of the helper? In most cases I have witnessed or been involved with the equipment is returned, a very brief word of thanks is given and the helper skis away. Most skiers good enough to collect and return kit will also be good enough to give the other a quick visual check to see whether they need further assistance. The tone of the "thank you" with the facial expression adding to the assessment.
I am sure that Easiski has seen and helped many many more times than me. But, how often do people return skis to members of ski classes, see that they have a teacher to look after them, wave, and ski away?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I must admit I don't tend to do the calling out thing, I just ensure I pick my moment to pass, even if that means waiting around and skiing slowly a bit. Or skiing to the side of the piste in the ruts/powder/rocks. I think I'd confuse myself.
Actually, one near collision was in the US, I wasn't going very aggressively and someone barrelled past yelling left. I of course veered left and they very nearly went straight into me. Whose fault would that have been? 
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FAQ
