 Poster: A snowHead
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My ski boots were, admittedly, towards the roomy side of things when I bought them. Schoolboy error. Comfy in the shop.
Later I got some mid-range footbeds put in. Nothing fancy, but they reduced the volume quite nicely, and they skied OK for a while (whether I did or not is a matter of some debate).
I think they've now done about 120 days or something, probably a bit more. They're starting to feel pretty flappy. Recently I've noticed a lot more sensation of my legs seemingly pivoting around the centre of the ski, as if I really do have too much travel in the boot. It feels occasionally dangerous, actually, as if I could break an ankle or something. I've also noticed a lot more chatter under my skis - not sure I can attribute that to the boots, but it's also a recent development (might just be me skiing a bit harder and faster without the technique to match it yet).
Point of note: I'm a stingy man. My Tyrannasaurus-resembling arms very rarely reach my wallet, and then it's only to feed the moths.
So, is there any advice as to what I can usefully/economically do about this? I'm pretty sure I do them up properly, and give myself popeye arms doing the powerstraps up most mornings.
Buy new liners? Buy chunkier footbeds? Or just buy new boots (followed, inevitably, by footbeds again)?
I don't crave new boots for fashion/tech reasons. The shells are fine, the soles not too badly worn, they interface with my bindings perfectly. It seems a shame to jettison them if I can do some surgery on them. Admittedly I think the shells are and always were a .5 size too big...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mr Pieholeo, go see a decent boot fitter, ignore advice from t'internet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Mr Pieholeo, go see a decent boot fitter, ignore advice from t'internet. |
There's a beautiful Goedellian self referentialism about this post.
*runs off to read Hofstadter again*
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Mr Pieholeo, go see a decent boot fitter, ignore advice from t'internet. |
don't ignore all advice from the internet - the first bit of advice there is great 
I would suggest solutions 4 feet (very enlightening going there!) if you think your boots are .5 of a size too big - be prepared to end up in even smaller ones - i.e. ones which actually fit!
Alasdair
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am aware of S4F and Profeet, etc.
But before I drop loads of money going to see a boot fitter, and bearing in mind I spent 3 hours heat-moulding these b*stards only a few years back, I'm still curious to hear any 'internet advice' regarding quick bodges or whatever.
Except the advice recommending that I ignore internet advice, obviously. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Is there way of inducing preeclampsia in men for example? If I could swell my feet up good and proper, that might help. What if I fill my socks with really angry bees?
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Mr Pieholeo, you can probably try a few tricks to make them smaller, which a boot fitter can help with, but they are almost inevitably going to end up telling you that you need new boots from your description.
But new boots shouldn't mean new footbeds if the current ones are ok. It sounds like you are going to be going down in size, so they can just trim down the footbeds you have. Indeed I did exactly that not so long ago. Any decent bootfitter will work with what you have to minimise the financial pain, but might suggest that another 100 quid might make a big difference.
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And point of note, going to see a boot fitter doesn't cost anything in most cases. Indeed, you'd be wise to go and see them and consider their advice, perhaps even get a second opinion,before deciding what to do with what could be a lot of money.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think my question is really 'they used to be ok, they are currently not ok, how can I make them ok again?'
I mean surely, even if the shells were ten sizes too big, there must be ways of adding ballast and cladding to the inners so that they are skiable, with your foot encased inside a 6-inch thick melange of god knows what.
Please don't make me buy new boots.
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
| What if I fill my socks with really angry bees? |
...or quick setting porridge
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mr Pieholeo, My current footbeds are in their fourth shells.
Take the liners out and do a shell check, the amount of extra space will make a difference to the kind of things that you can do.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I tried to do a shell check once, but I didn't really understand what to do. Which is quite embarrassing really. If I put my foot in the shell with no liner there's a bunch of space, but then again liners are massive things, so that's normal right?
Dammit I'm supposed to be an *expert*, or at least 'intermediate to advanced'!
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Mr Pieholeo, the difference perhaps is that for many of us there isn't a bunch of space. This may be the source of the problem. But basically you do just put your bare foot in the shell and measure the gap behind your foot with your toes butted against the front.That's not particularly easy to do, but you can get an idea if you can fit a 4 inch wide dildo down there.
I think the term is "progressing intermediate' which is as disappointing as it sounds, and does almost nothing to actually discern between an early or advanced intermediate...
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You know it makes sense.
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
| I tried to do a shell check once, but I didn't really understand what to do. Which is quite embarrassing really. If I put my foot in the shell with no liner there's a bunch of space, but then again liners are massive things, so that's normal right? |
Just have a look at the space directly behind your heel with your toes touching the front. You will be able to feel the thickness of the liner at the equivalent point when you have them out, I suspect they are thinner than you think.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
| Admittedly I think the shells are and always were a .5 size too big... |
Shells don't normally come in half sizes, only liners do. Most boot manufacturers have the same outer shell for eg 26/26.5 half sizes with a slightly more padded liner for the 'smaller' 26 shell. So if you put a liner in from the non half sized version of your boot it will fit correctly and reduce the volume. This concept won't help you if you're in a 27 and think you should be in a 26.5 because then it is a different shell as well as a smaller liner.
Have you done a shell check? 10-15mm behind your heel is about right with the liner out and your toe touching the front of the boot if you're an advanced skier. If it's more than 20-25mm the whole boot's too big. Check both feet as one's usually bigger than the other.
Options if the shell is ok? Baseboard under the liner to reduce volume (not ideal), SH liner in smaller size from another pair off ebay, zipfits, stick on padding on the outside of the liner in the slop areas (ankle). Do your ankle clip up tighter - move the buckle if necessary - this is the buckle that holds your foot in the correct place in the boot. Keep doing it up until you lose circulation then back it off a turn. Adjust tension on the other buckles to match. Do the powerstrap up last.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Right so the weird thing is my buckles all end up at halfway or two-thirds done up. They won't really go any tighter without discomfort, and any looser is strictly for the walk from the carpark. But whilst I'm *tearing it up* on the slope, the boots feel a bit waggly.
I haven't gone through the motions of shell-sizing for a while (and the boots are boxed up ready for moving house now, otherwise I'd do it) - but the last time I did what I thought was a proper shell-check my results were 'uh oh, these are too big'....
| Raceplate wrote: |
| Shells don't normally come in half sizes, only liners do. |
Didn't know that, cheers.
Mistress Panda, I like your dildo idea. In fact I always like your dildo ideas. PM me about 'Wednesday', yeah?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
| Right so the weird thing is my buckles all end up at halfway or two-thirds done up. |
Not really sure what you mean by that but you might be surprised at how much tighter the lower leg buckles need to be after 6-8 weeks skiing compared to when they're new to achieve the same level of foothold. My own are usually on the 2/3 clips when new and the 4/5 clips after a few weeks and this is on a 'race' liner that has a reputation for not packing down much! The forefoot ones don't change. 120 days skiing is more than a season's worth for most people so chances are the liner IS shot. If your shells are also too big I'd expect you to be moving the lower leg clip buckles, doing them up much more than finger tight and still feeling slop when you ski (I've been there).
What boots are they? If they're an intermediate boot with a generous last shape you may also of course have just outgrown their ability level....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Raceplate, hilariously I don't know what boot model they are exactly. Salomon Performa something-or-other I think. They were definitely sold to me as an 'improvers' boot, and I have got better a whole bunch since then, so...
All the buckles I do finger tight in the car park, and then an extra notch by the first coffee break. After that they don't really go any tighter (just nicely finger tight), but I still flap about like a pair of wellies sometimes.
Actually sometimes they feel ok, just sometimes they feel like old baggy slippers.
I'm concluding so far: 1) they're a little too big for a kickoff 2) the liners are jiggered and 3) I have improved quite a bit (yes I have, shut up) so probably I could do with something a bit stiffer, not just jerry rigging these ones.
That's my kids inheritance gone then. I was only going to give him 300 quid.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Mr Pieholeo, chuck 'em. You've obviously outgrown them in every sense of the word. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| Mr Pieholeo, chuck 'em. You've obviously outgrown them in every sense of the word. |
+1
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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What size shell have you got?
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Mosha Marc, dunno without looking and they're packed away for storage now. Gah. Sorry, poorly timed thread to be asking for this sort of advice innit, if I can't even get my hands on the damn things.
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
| Mistress Panda, I like your dildo idea. In fact I always like your dildo ideas. PM me about 'Wednesday', yeah? |
I'll bring the 4 incher along, we can see if it fits. I suspect it will be flapping about like a camel's tongue.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Before chucking them, or investing a hundred euros to have someone tell you to chuck them,
Stick some cardboard under the sole outside the liner, My boots fit much tighter all round when i did this, also, instructor tip, make it corrugated card and it'll help keep your feet warm. Play around, find what works then, when you're happy, wrap the begger in ducktape to make it water proof (another fun tip, also a great cheat to adjust your canting, just need to have the patience for trial and error). Also I have in the past, placed sticky foam inserts along the spine of the boot to move my foot forward against the cuff and hold it in place.
If your main medium is powder not ice don't be afraid to botch job stuff, I've got through whole seasons doing that!
Also never forget that statistically the average snowhead spends 500% more on ski kit than the average punter and 300% more than the average resort born Skier... try it first if it works great, if not THEN throw money at the problem!
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this just popped into my head and might be a dumb or incredible idea!
wrap the liner in a thick sock! boom you just got a couple of millimeters back all over!
Patented now, just incase!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mr Pieholeo, I am in exactly the same boat! I bought my boots in April 2000 and the are Salamons and size 25.0.
We were over in snowtrax and decided to try on a pair they had in the sale which was 24.5 Salamons they weren't too small I could feel the ends until I did them up and leant forward. They had a pressure point on the top inside of my foot near my leg. The guy there suggested I try a pair of Lange RX ones which felt really good but at well over £200 I can't justify it at the moment.
Part of me would like book with somebody like CEM for a fitting but to spend that sort of money that the results of that session is likely to recommend on me is very selfish when I have the family to think of.
My birthday is in August and I am going to ask for money of parents etc to go towards new boots. Once I have that I will decided what route to take. I may stick to going to Snowtrax as they are local and I can go back easily for adjustments (and try them out straight away on the slope there).
I would suggest popping into a local store who has ski boots in and trying on a pair which is a shell size down. That is likely to confirm that your suspicions are correct - trouble is at this time of year they all have so few sizes and models left you may find that difficult.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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dulcamara, how big are your feet???
By the time it's stretched over the liner it's width will be measured in microns!
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| Quote: |
dulcamara, how big are your feet???
By the time it's stretched over the liner it's width will be measured in microns!
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Oh Ye of little faith!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Mr Pieholeo, I had my boots 'bodged' a couple of years back by a boot-fitter who used cleverly shaped peices of sticky-backed foam around the outside of the liner. It certainly sorted a lot of the heel-lift problems I was having at the time, and might make your boots feel a bit better.
As dulcamara says, might be worth a try, before you drop a load of cash on shiney new boots (?)
I'll try to remember to take some piccies and post 'em up once I'm back at home.
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Poster: A snowHead
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You can get 'special bootfitting foam' (no idea how this differs form normal sticky back foam) in various shapes to improve hold, around the heel/ankle for instance. You could also investigate foam-injected liners, should be able to fill up a little extra space, and I understand they normally bump the stiffness up a bit over stock liners.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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abj, [img] insert image url (NOT from address bar, right click on the image) [/img] (remove spaces)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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clarky999, nice one. Thanks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Do you work at profeet??
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Its easier to make room in a ski boot than it is to fill it. Forget about relating shoe size to boot sizes as boots come in different shapes and lasts. Go for a very comfortable fit in the shop ski for a day or so and heu preswto perfectly fitting boots.
I have a small size 7 foot but wear a 25.5 size boot (Lange Banshee with very old Lange XR9 Race liners with custom footbeds). I have had to tweek them over the years to reduce the pain in my feet, i.e sanding down the footbed, cutting grooves into the thin liner
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Skitech - It's weird, I have size 9 feet and 26.5 Lange rx130's with tweaked shell and liners. Still I think these are now on the large side and the liner has definitely lost its mojo and bags down quickly each morning.
Another good reason to see a great boot fitter and not just any Tom, D or H.
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| Mt wrote: |
Skitech - It's weird, I have size 9 feet and 26.5 Lange rx130's with tweaked shell and liners. Still I think these are now on the large side and the liner has definitely lost its mojo and bags down quickly each morning.
Another good reason to see a great boot fitter and not just any Tom, D or H. |
I used to work with a guy who would take apart boots and replace the cuffs with those off a different model and brand to get the boot he wanted.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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You got me, that is a generic photo from google, forgot to bring my stocking to work that day.... next time!
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FAQ
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