 Poster: A snowHead
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While were talking about levels, a kiwi teacher in St. Anton said unless you can stop immediately, on any terrain, then you cant reasonably consider yourself a good skier, i disagreed. Any thoughts?
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You can't stop IMMEDIATELY on skis at any speed, just like when driving you can't stop a car immediately. Even after pressing the brakes you skid for a few metres.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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RobW, Yes, I can probably get down anything... but without struggling.. fear.. with any style?? Not a chance. A mere beginner in the big scheme of things.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jasminee, Skiing is a journey - well sort of, I thought I was good.... once.. I have a few more 'ski days' than you too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You can't stop IMMEDIATELY on skis at any speed, just like when driving you can't stop a car immediately. Even after pressing the brakes you skid for a few metres.
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Yeah, i didnt take his comments literally, but i think i get his point...dont ski beyond your ability, youre putting yourself and others at serious risk!
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when would you say someone is intermediate .?
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Probably easier to say when someone is NOT an intermediate...  !
Piste gradings are notoriously arbitary, even within one resort theyre often inconsistent let alone across the whole Alpine region...while theres of course a feeling of achievement having done a "black" run, theres a good chance youve done steeper stuff and its no big deal really...
What happened to OP i wonder...?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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shiva_71, nope - I don't think that is his point. It is that you should have the technique to stop suddenly on any terrain.
But I think it was a pretty daft and limited definition.
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jasminee
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when would you say someone is intermediate .?
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When you don't worry about the colour of slopes as you can ski (properly) anything on piste. At this point you are halfway trhough what skiing has to offer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well I'm determined to tackle a couple of black runs on my forthcoming trip to La Thuile. I know to avoid pistes 2, 3, 9A and 27 as there are reported to be extremely steep and difficult. But the other might be within my remit.
No idea about the La Rosière side. Someone told me the red run Fontaine Froide was horribly difficult and icy so I'll steer clear there.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| I took a "double black" group lesson the other day. First thing when the instructor asked what we wanted to do - some guy piped up "carving", |
What a tool!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well, I managed to generate a little bit of debate (and a fair few patronising comments - which were totally expected - although I would like to think I had a modicum of natural skiing talent). Actually, I have never had a lesson, though I know plenty of professional golfers who never had a golf lesson in their life, and I have inherited bad knees which is why I want to get as many ski holidays in as possibe before I no doubt have to pack it in. I do agree that lessons would be a good way to iron out any self-taught flaws in my technique.
Of course, each to their own, and I hope to bump into some of you (not literally of course!) in the 3V's in a couple of weeks!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have read a few more of the comments now... I wrote originally that I had only skied for 12 days to see what the reaction was, I am now feeling quite pleased because based on what others have wrote I would consider myself to be at a relatively fairly advanced stage (for the time I have skied). I only fell 3 times in Wengen, none of which were at speed (including several descents of the aforementioned black runs) and when I say I am probably an intermediate skier I think that's a fair comment - I can ski under control at almost any speed, stop whenever and wherever I want, ski backwards etc. Perhaps one day I will enjoy steep slopes and moguls but I am a fairly 'safe' (read:boring) skier, I won't race my friends and I try not to put others in danger.
Anyway, I hope I don't sound like a bighead because I am under no illusions that there are many, many far superior skiers on this forum, and by bigging myself up I am just asking for an accident to happen in France! 
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| robinsrule wrote: |
Actually, I have never had a lesson, though I know plenty of professional golfers who never had a golf lesson in their life,
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Funny, I was just talking about this last week. My boyfriend has only ever had one golf lesson, dropped his score by 2 points over the course of an hour - he now plays off of 4. So I doubt you know any "professionals".
Boasting about having had no lessons isn't impressive really... it just makes me think "oh dear, yet another swinging shouldered pr*ck with no control en piste." The fact that you feel you can't do a black run means you are far, far from the ability at which you perceive yourself to be.
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You know it makes sense.
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some 12 day skiiers will be better than some 120 day skiiers, just the way it is, everyone classes themselves as intermediate, not a good group to be in
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I know plenty of professional golfers who never had a golf lesson in their life,
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Really? 
Look, I know this is patronising etc etc, but I seriously don't think you can be considered a relatively advanced skier if you're still counting the number of times you fall and are concerned about the colour of runs.
Also I think that 99.99% of 'advanced' skiers will have had some form of formal instruction in the sport.
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Poster: A snowHead
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davelebus, Absolutely...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've skied quite a few times with people who've had 'no lessons'. Without exception, they were far better in the pub and the gondola than they were in the hill  .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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robinsrule, you're a beginner, deal with it! Get some lessons and stay off of the blacks until you're ready. There really is nothing worse than coming across a learner with an over inflated idea of their level traversing from side to side.
Saturday we went to the cafe at the top of the Mur de Chavenette to watch the race down the Wall and it was comical to watch these people turn up to attempt it. I watched this guy take his whole family down it. They took a good half hour to get down. Is it really worth it so you can then say, 'yeah, we did the wall today'? I just don't think it is.
Everyone wants to improve, that's the joy of skiing but like everything in life you need to realistically evaluate your ability.
Yes, I agree with geeo, that some skiers improve much faster than others but there's just no way you can class yourself as 'relatively advanced' after 12 days.
Relative to what?
Overconfidence can land you in a whole heap of merde.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
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While were talking about levels, a kiwi teacher in St. Anton said unless you can stop immediately, on any terrain, then you cant reasonably consider yourself a good skier, i disagreed. Any thoughts?
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You can't stop IMMEDIATELY on skis at any speed, just like when driving you can't stop a car immediately. Even after pressing the brakes you skid for a few metres. |
I would take this a bit differently. I'm not fooling myself I can stop immediately when skiing with speed over 100km/h. So I rather say that difference between skiing with control or without control doesn't mean stopping immediately (since in my opinion it's just not possible as soon as you go more then 20 or 30km/h), but to be able to observe what's happening around you, and to SAFELY turn into any direction to avoid accident.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Will S wrote: |
| They took a good half hour to get down. Is it really worth it so you can then say, 'yeah, we did the wall today'? I just don't think it is. |
That's something what I just don't get it. What's point of going down the icy WC course, when you know you have nothing to do there. Butt sliding down the course hardly qualifies as "I managed to get down the Streif". Yet there's endless amount of people, who hardly manage to stay on skis (when on flat), and they go down hardest courses. And on top of that, they ruin my pleasure of skiing those places, since instead of skiing, I need to watch out and avoid living obstacles sliding down the course.
Maybe I look at all this differently, but in my opinion skiing is fun. Torturing down the course you can't handle is not fun. So why to go??? Does friends of those people really buy them box of beer, just because they managed to slide down the Streif on their butts?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Will S wrote: |
| robinsrule, and stay off of the blacks until you're ready. There really is nothing worse than coming across a learner with an over inflated idea of their level traversing from side to side......Overconfidence can land you in a whole heap of merde. |
Saw the 'blood wagon' on Comborciere (black) at les Arcs twice when I was out, on a day that it had been pisted, which is very rare. It was relatively easy on that day - yes a little bumpy, but, from the majority I saw skiing it, there were obviously accidents waiting to happen - and they did.
TBO I'd question the motivation for pisteing that run, obviously people knew it was pisted and decided to give it a go for that reason, they woudn't have dreamed of attempting it in it's normal mogulled state.
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| davelebus wrote: |
Also I think that 99.99% of 'advanced' skiers will have had some form of formal instruction in the sport. |
Actually I could imagine that Bode Miller has never had lessons... he's certainly the type who "knows everything"!
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Having a lesson or being coached as racer is not same, but in this case I would say it fits same category. So yes, racers had and still do (including Bode at this very moment) having "instructions".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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robinsrule, couple of pointer for you, hopefully in a non-patronizing manor;
1. Never claim to have "natural skiing ability", or claim to be anything other than "ok, not too bad" when asked if you're a good skier, no matter what your ability, because there will always be someone better than you and you will look like a fool. And I severely doubt that you can ski under control at almost any speed. I believe that you believe you do, but that is very very different from actual doing it it.
2. If you are completely self-taught, then I and most other skiers will be able to spot you a mile off and will keep well clear of you. Example; hosted "advanced" group last season on Mark Warner gig in Tignes. 10 of us in the advanced group, 3 of whom claimed to be "completely self taught, and bloody fast with it". Bloody fast they were, also completely out of control and caused more than the 2 crashes that I saw. Their lack of lessons was shown up horribly when they joined an off-piste afternoon; they were simply awful when trying to deal with anything other than groomed piste and slowed down the entire group.
Life is unpredictable but there are some absolute certainties; death, taxes, and the need for proper skiing instruction. Take the hint mate, get lessons. You'll enjoy it more, you'll ski better, you'll ski easier (less effort) and, as a result, go faster while in control, and you won't be viewed as a complete liability on the slopes.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| hopefully in a non-patronizing manor |
That wouldn't be the one the Penelope Keith character was born into.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I can't stand him. I think he's completely over-rated and I really just do not "get" what the crowds go wild for. If I spent as much time on my back bottom as he does I'd call myself robin!
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Because he's so all or nothing. He either delivers an amazing seat of pants run, or he crashes out. No pussyfooting around.
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You know it makes sense.
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clarky999, spot on, much more entertaining than the % skiers (that's if there is such a thing as a % skier in downhill). I also enjoy watching Didier Cuche and the new young Swiss chap, who's name escapes me for the moment.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dr John, Janka I think.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Dr John, Carlo Janka!clarky999, you said it!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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we seem to have drifted OT
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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..... going back to the original topic. Black pistes enable people with good technique to practice carving short turns. This is achieved by skiing directly down the fall line without picking up speed after the first few turns. Of course other less able skiers will scrap or fly by in the backseat and say they skied it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Took some 2/3 week skiers down Suisses in Courchevel 1850 recently. It had just been pisted and was just like a long red which they had been doing all week. But you should have seen their elation at doing their first black.
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robinsrule, I totally know where you are coming from, to be honest at your stage of skiing a few years back I would have said exactly the same as you about my ability, and probably very little would have changed my mind. However, then I noticed that my girlfriend who had only done two weeks skiing was starting to catch up with me amazingly quickly. The difference was that she had lessons every time we went away, I only ever had done one weeks lessons right at the start!
A few years later and some excellent lessons and my skiing is transformed! Until you are taught to do it properly you wont understand how badly you were skiing before!
And phew.... can stay in front of the gf!! 
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| davelebus wrote: |
Also I think that 99.99% of 'advanced' skiers will have had some form of formal instruction in the sport. |
I've not had any formal instruction. I'm fairly certain that i ski better than 99% of skiers. I did however have the luxury of learning to ski doing a season in Cham. I also lived in a hostel where a number of freeride pros & long term skibums stayed. So i had the advantage of initially going out with them on their "rest days", taking a bit of advise, then as i got better & better i spent more & more time with them. Always taking on board everything i was being told about my technique, how it was wrong & how to fix it. I will accept this was tuition at some of the highest levels but it was never formal.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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frank4short, so you've had lots of tuition, but you haven't paid for it. Sounds perfect to me.
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I've not had any formal instruction. I'm fairly certain that i ski better than 99% of skiers.
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 And not at all boastful or opinionated.
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FAQ
when would you say someone is intermediate .? 
