 Poster: A snowHead
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This thread is fantastic, great work skimottaret
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| veeeight wrote: |
PMTS
(I'll try to keep this as neutral as possible, and please, no slagging off here)
Primary Movements Teaching System (also known as DirectParallel TM)
A ski teaching system founded by Harald Harb (also referred to as HH) that is different to most other ski school systems in the world, founded on the premise of a new way of teaching to go along with the new shaped skis, as well as continually referencing high end skiing (eg: racing) as a model to aspire to.
One of the characteristics of this progression is that a snowplough or wedge is not taught in this system. |
...Hi there....does HH not teach a wedge (even with flat skis as I was taught to teach) whatever the situation ? It is better not to teach wedge to beginners until they master straight running and simple turns but you need a large empty area to teach in and it is unusual to get that. How does he teach day1-3 skiers to control their speed ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Add - moguls also a particular refinement of turning that allows more efficient and economical skiing through them; also a competitive freestyle discipline
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Add - Sidecut - the important thing about sidecut is that it is sidecut that allows you to carve your turns. No side cut, no carve.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| Add - Sidecut - the important thing about sidecut is that it is sidecut that allows you to carve your turns. No side cut, no carve. |
Good addition, David. You going to write up the definition?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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ANTICIPATION: An exaggerated counter position used at the end of a turn. The body faces down the hill, while the skis point across the hill. Commonly used to help a skier pivot the skis downhill during the transition for the start of the new turn.
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Stem turn/Stem Christy: The term "Christy" derives from Christiana (now Oslo) where it was developed. The skier initiates a full or partial snowplough turn from a parallel traverse by stemming the uphill and new-outside ski up and into the snowplough and completes the turn by retracting the opposite ski back down to become parallel once the turn has finished.
Lordy, that sounds so much more complicated than it really is 
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Amend Sidecut
The curved shape that the sides of your ski make when you look down at them. Skis are shaped to make them turn for you - when you ask them to. The sidecut is what allows/makes them do that.
Here's an exercise:
Take a piece of paper and tear a concave shape out of one side (so it sort of looks like the side of your skis - only exaggerated).
Put the paper flat on your desk (I assume you have more important things to do than this at home, so let's while away a few of those dreary working hours). What happens? Dead right. Nothing. Push forwards and the paper slides forwards. Keep your skis flat on a surface (do nothing else!) and you'll (for the most part) go straight ahead.
Here's the fun bit.
Pick the paper up and tilt it to, say, a 15 degree angle from horizontal. Push in the centre of the sheet - just as though your weight was in the middle and pushing "down". See how the shape of the side of the paper makes an arc on the table? Imagine now that the paper is your ski, the curved shape has a sharp steel edge on it and the table is nice, well groomed snow.
Now imagine pushing forwards...what's going to happen?
If all is in place, the ski should naturally turn across the snow.
Easy or what? That's how the ski turns. See "transitions" for initiating and completing turns... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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At the risk of being shouted down I've always wondered how a parallel turn differs (if of course it does at all) from a carved turn. Are the parallel turns that you make on carving skis/can you make parallel turns on carving skis that are not carved turns - I know this doesn't make perfect sense, but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from - I'm very confused as to whether or not there is actually a difference. My instructor shouts (occasionally) 'hurray and the parallel turn appears' (he knows that much English) are these carved turns if I'm on carving skis. Is Parallel turn worth adding.
B.t.w. I hadn't looked back at the beginning of the thread until just now - hasn't it come along brilliantly? well done skimottaret, Just what I had in mind when it was suggested - given the amount of work that has clearly gone into this I wonder who we approach to make it a 'sticky' and whether anyone can make it magically link to the correct term when one of the 'key words' crops up in a thread.
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Megamum, parallel just means the skis are matched. they can be skidding around the turn, carved means the edges are fully engaged during a parallel turn
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, hmmm, yes, the problems with the term "Carving skis".
All alpine skis are carving skis - as they are all shaped so that when you incline them on an edge and apply appropriate pressure, they will turn naturally by carving. During a snowplough turn one ski is generally turning by a combination of carving and skidding.
Equally, any ski can be forced into skidding.
Modern "carving" skis have a much more pronounced sidecut (where's that link?) than skis of 10 years ago. This makes initiation and maintenance of the carved turn much easier - although doesn't necessarily help with turn completion and a smooth transition into the next trun (IMO).
As skimottaret, say, parallel just means your skis are together. And helpfully enough, your skis don't need to be parallel in a carved turn (as long as they're not both locked into the carve).
In the dim and distant, simply achieving a "parallel" turn was a major achievement. Whereas these days, well hey, anyone can do it...
I reckon you feel when your turn is carved well - you feel more efficient and in control as well as a much more entertaining g-force 
I agree, Isn't this a cool thread though?
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Add pedant - self obvious really.
Amend (because I'm occasionally pedantic) Jet Turn - as IIRC it was popularised if not invented by Jean Claude Killy in the early 70s. And was in my Sunday Times book of (IIRC) 1974. So forget your Heckelman man, man. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skimottaret, he he. Cool. Braquage (you know I didn't even know it was called that until recently) is indeed very handy.
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, great thread and a brilliant reference for a new skier like me. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch, What IS that video. I've had too much wine ! I'll have nightmares!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ickabodblue, it's a little device built to test skiing I think - can't really remember. Just proves you can ski well without a brain. he he he...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Murdoch, It has no head, that's scary!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ickabodblue, just shows you how easy skiing should be...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ahhhh,,, which brings to mind two new terms we need in the glossary.
CONVERGING: Skiing with the tips of the skis closer together than the tails, such as when in a snowplow.
DIVERGING: Skiing with the tips of the skis further apart than the tails.
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FastMan, arrgghh memories of explaining them to native Italian speaker!!
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| No side cut, no carve. |
Not strictly true. Reverse camber (there's another term for the list) enables the ski to carve. (aka "rocker".) Sidecut merely makes it easier to achieve reverse camber without the necessity of snow compaction.
This was discussed (at length, naturally ) on Epic here http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=17714 where the examples of ice-skates and grass skis were cited as pieces of equipment which have no sidecut but will "carve" (perform a turn where "tail" follows "tip") due to their permanent reverse camber.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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knee angulation
hip angulation
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Martin Bell, not even "almost no side cut no carve"?
Rockered skis did cross my mind but as they seem somewhat "specialised" and would appear hopeless on-piste (you can tell I haven't tried them - haven't even really closely examined a pair) I discounted them in the interest of sweeping generalisation.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Murdoch, I have a pair of Gauer dance skis, rockered and keeled to look like a chokkibune or sekobune from the side, useless except on piste, should be a pic somewhere in snowMedia
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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comprex, why do you have a pair? How odd.
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David Murdoch, it's a personal, umm, growth thing, like shaving with the left hand. Or so Ms. c tells me. Actually, they are very interesting on the 20foot pseudo-glaciers we get under the snow guns around May day.
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You know it makes sense.
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I have added everyones contributions and if you look at the top of the thread you will see that admin has kindly made it a sticky, so it will stay at the top of BZK's
Admin thinks that it would be nice to be made more prominent though, any ideas? (I have mentioned the links idea but IMO it will get annoying quick to have all the links light up everytime you use a term)
Little tiger can you try to explain hip and knee angulation.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skimottaret, I have a problem with knee angulation if I am using current angulation definition...
Perhaps Fastman will have a go as he is better at this anyway...
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Poster: A snowHead
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little tiger, chicken 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Could we have a spelling correction, please?
CENTRIPIDAL FORCE
to
CENTRIPETAL FORCE
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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veeeight, done, need to spell check everything..... is the definition any good as centripetal force isnt a "force" at all from what i remember from physics 101...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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veeeight, don't mention phantom forces. Next we'll have "Harb's special theory of phantom relativity" and we really don't want to go there...
skimottaret, I think it's going to have to be wiki-fied...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
veeeight, don't mention phantom forces. Next we'll have "Harb's special theory of phantom relativity" and we really don't want to go there...
skimottaret, I think it's going to have to be wiki-fied... |
Glad you mentioned that ! Now, the HH SPTOPR AIUI excludes but not entirely the PMTS whilst utilising elements of the PM or PT. Now, why that is or is not relevant is a very good question indeed and one that deserves an answer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Worm: Marketing hype designed to play on the insecurities of the skier, causing you to buy poor or inappropriate equipment.
Fish: They eat Worms.
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veeeight, good definition of centripetal force. I was always an agnostic on the centrifugal issue, until I read that brilliant post of Physicsman's we were pointed to by Martin Bell a few weeks ago. It does exist, but not quite in the way most people think. When you make that grand sweeping turn and leave an impressive plume of snow spraying out to the side of you, or a trail of broken bits of crust (depending on taste ) what was it that got the snow to move?.... the centrifugal force you and your skis were exerting on that snow.
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FAQ
go girl 
