@Spoon, a bit like your pics from Oslo here today, hard work as there was a bit of fresh snow around. It has been quite mild since Christmas so there is not much snow below 1000 meters.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I do classic. I’ve never been happy with my kick, now I’ve got some longer skis they are gliding really nicely but I still don’t feel I have a positive kick. Any tips.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
We spent a lot of time on arms when I had lessons, @jbob, especially extending behind (you have to have your dragons just the right length - so you can let go of the pole and then recover it). We also did quite a lot of time doing gliding exercises (not very well in my case.....) on one foot - the transfer of weight is pretty crucial, it seems.
I do classic. I’ve never been happy with my kick, now I’ve got some longer skis they are gliding really nicely but I still don’t feel I have a positive kick. Any tips.
Could the skis be too long (i.e. too stiff) for your weight?
If they're the right flex/length, make sure to transfer your whole body weight on the kick ski before you attempt the kick.
One way to practice is to kick without poles (so you can't cheat by pushing with your arms). Let the glide ski run for as long as possible until it almost stops before kicking... Basically exaggerate!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The pursuit at Antholz in Italy (sud Tyrol) was good with a nice bit of fair play from Darya Domracheva at the end.
@pam w, @abc, @Spoon, thanks. Mrs jbob who has had some lessons thinks it’s about weight transfer. I’ve seen people having lessons without poles. So need to try it. I was frustrated yesterday, seemed to be putting in a lot of effort, still slow.
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In the lesson I had the instructor adviced to start without poles, and that many also do that at the start of the season to ‘get into the rythem’
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Looks like the day has finally arrived!
Skating lesson booked for today after numerous postponements on both sides mainly due to powder getting in the way especially last couple of days where I've been skiing with two Norwegian Vikings who naturally skate, one use to compete at a high level.
After a long run out yesterday where skating on fat touring skis turned into a bit of a race they said that I don't need lessons if I can skate like that which contradicts some of the previous comments on here?
So really looking forward to it especially with the holiday hordes arriving and wall to wall sunshine forecast, along with very cold temps so snow might well take longer to transform for spring snow off piste and too cold for the bike!
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First time on Skating Skis
Well that went pretty well as expected, totally useless for the first fifteen mins or so and a couple of painful falls.
One leg / side worse than the other, lifting non gliding leg too high and keeping tail on the ground forcing me backwards. Not getting ski enough on the edge to push on one side. Pole planting all over the place, not close enough to the body and not pushing back on them far enough.
Overall rushing things hoping brute force strength and ignorance (not breathing well) would get me through as opposed to being calm and listening and feeling ones body.
We did a few exercises without the poles etc
Going uphill was just useless could not get the coordination. Coming back down in the tracks and jumping out was ok as sort of do that on classic skis and stopping etc was alright.
Into the third quarter of the lesson and coming back down on the gentle 0.5% descent and when I slowed my movement down and concentrated more whilst still keeping speed up things began to feel a lot better.
I was wearing my heart rate monitor much to the amusement of the instructor as sometimes it was pretty damn high but as the lesson progressed and things began to click so my HR came down.
Come the end of the lesson he threw me some faint praise saying he could recognise that I was a "sportive" and that unlike many pupils I listened to him and it was all about time on the skis.
When he left I did two more runs and each one was better and better. Think it's very much about inner core and holding a good balanced position, one error and it throws everything out.
Now extremeley eager to get back on them, and I'm lucky in that the track is 5mins down from me, as well as each morning this time of year they piste a walkers path alongside so I can use that without a forfait and with the dogs.
This is my Strava track and you can see how my HR settled down towards the end along with a more consistent pace etc first 75% looks like I'm doing intervals
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Ok, well you've answered your own question there.
Round here there is still a lack of snow below 1200 meters but conditions are not bad for skating or classic now with nice hard snow
This route is not somewhere to come off on the right hand side
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@davidof, yes but didn't take too long to work it out - skating alpine defo helped, just needed to tweak it to cater for stupidly thin ski and adjust balance accordingly
Hoping to progress uber fast* now
* as long as Alpine does not get in the way
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
We use to do cross-country skiing training with squaddies at Orciers-Merlette.
At the "Base de Loisirs d'Orcieres" we'd do some simple training on two-phase and double-pole and then it would be off on a 8km tour down to Pont du Fosse. As it was all down hill you just needed a steady double-pole every now and again to keep the speed and momentum going. We'd stop for lunch and then it would dawn on them that they had to do the 8km in reverse, with the added incentive that they could knock-off once they had got back.
8km up hill and most of them had mastered the kick by time they'd finished.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Well done, @Weathercam - that's the first steep bit of learning curve done!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
.
Started cross country this week, and am loving it .
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Weathercam wrote:
skating alpine defo helped, just needed to tweak it to cater for stupidly thin ski and adjust balance accordingly
\
That's also what I found.
Moreover, I found doing Nordic helps my alpine, by teaching my brain to automatically pay attention to the critical balancing act...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Did a quick half hour yesterday and heart rate still really high going out on the slight uphill gradient, coming back took a hard tumble, but seems to be so much easier with slightly more speed.
And then again today went out for an hour but a brutal head wind made the gradient even tougher and combine that with the fact that they had not pisted the track which made for a hard icy piste and my lack of technique made it even harder to try and get an edge.
Coming back I was almost carrying too much speed it seemed.
OH videoed me and would seem I'm not bringing my skis close enough together, but am feeling improvements and almost stayed with some people on the flat though as soon as the gradient kicked in they soon left me trailing.
So fourth session (each one around an hour) today, and so much better with slightly softer snow and having watched various YouTube clips technique felt better though seems that I'm favouring one leg, pushing with the left and gliding for longer on the right.
Getting the glide and balance on one ski seems to be the key.
On the flat / slight downhill feels good and getting quite a fluid speed up, now just have to conquer the slight gradients and uphills.
Next target is 10km up to Monetier and back, so uphill all the way though only around 150m vertical, and then try and do that under the hour.
.......Next target is 10km up to Monetier and back, so uphill all the way though only around 150m vertical, and then try and do that under the hour.........
Yesterday went out but it was so cold and again a really strong head wind so no way was I going to make it to Monetier.
What I had not really thought about when thinking XC was a good alternative to going up the hill battling with the holiday hordes is that the track if not pisted daily, with the very cold temps and wind becomes rock hard and makes it really hard for my limited skillsets.
Today though even colder we did not have the wind, and decided to give Monetier a go and managed to get well under the hour for 10km - coming back I hardly had to skate and am getting more confident on the downhill sections that previously I was uber cautious on.
Uphill technique is still lousy and do not seem to be making progress but think that might be to do with the hard frozen track.
That said heart rate is not so bonkers high and I'm managing to pace myself and not having to rest so often.
Think that's six sessions now on the skate skis.
Now might have to go and explore some other valleys where XC is the dominant activity.
Did go to La Vachette / Les Alberts bottom of Nevache / Val Claree and was very disappointing as track was rock hard / icy and had not been bashed for a while plus you had to keep taking your skis off and being Mr Honest I ended up paying €8 for the privilege.
That said managed to do nigh on 13km in 72mins
At times felt good but still very confuddelled with what I should be doing re technique as all the various YouTube vids have confused me between V1 and V2 that said came across this one this morning which is the best I've come across as I can hear myself saying "pole, ski ski pole ski " ?????
Also now feeling a tad superior when passing people doing classic, but this time of year that's mainly tourists who just want to try something and are too cheap-skates to buy an Alpine pass.
However just as I'm getting into it so the powder has come back......
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Did they just mix up their terminology on the video at the end?
My observation of people skating by me is they do v1 most of the time, and switch to V2 when they want to go fast.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@abc, think I'm doing V0.87
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@Weathercam, you're doing a lot better than me already.
I had wanted to try skate ski for ages. But a combination of lacking snow and lacking time had me still doing classic (most years less 10 days).
As most of my winter days are consumed by alpine skiing, I was slowly giving up on my dream of learning skating... On the other hand, I'm contemplating retiring. Maybe then I'll have more time and can devote myself to learning!
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abc wrote:
Did they just mix up their terminology on the video at the end?
My observation of people skating by me is they do v1 most of the time, and switch to V2 when they want to go fast.
The lady demonstrates V1 (uphill technique), V2 Alternate (flat and downhill) and V2 (flat and slight uphill - even steep uphills if you are a powerful skater). I don't really understand Kanukistanese but she made some errors.
Most people do a bastardized version of V1 nearly all of the time - that is V1 but with odd timing.
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davidof wrote:
Most people do a bastardized version of V1 nearly all of the time - that is V1 but with odd timing.
Think that's my V0.8777
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Today temps +6 and a much softer track and no head wind and higher heart rate yet managed a slower time
Though going up to Monetier without the head wind faster time and without a hard icy track technique felt better, but obviously lost time on the return leg without the tail wind.
So begs the question what is the optimum temp / state of the piste for best performance?
Presume must just be around freezing and on a newly pisted crisp track ?
Think next time out going to have to concentrate on technique drills etc and kick time(s) into touch - this time did major on one leg V1 though as ever did find myself veering away from it
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I've always found temperatures around the - 5 C down to - 15 C mark, i.e. blue wax days give the best running.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Weathercam
I was out skating yesterday, newly waxed skis and a nice -3C temp (after a week of -16C) so was hoping for some quick skating.
But once I got to the track, is had not been prepared for over a week and it gets used by hikers and dog walkers so was all chopped up.
Just ended up enjoying the sun and scenery and focusing a bit on technique.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Presume must just be around freezing and on a newly pisted crisp track ?
@Weathercam, obviously the newly pisted crisp track is the best.
As for temperature, it's best when it's below freezing.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
it gets used by hikers and dog walkers
hikers and dogs strictly prohibited on the XC trails in Les Saisies - and quite rightly so!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@pam w
Here in Norway we have a law called “allemannsretten” which translate to “public right of access”. It’s give everyone the same rights to use the countryside.
I personally don’t mind but the debate about restricting the tracks to skiing only comes up every year.
It’s mostly the local ski clubs that wants to restrict it to skiing only.
It’s a catch-22 situation, the ski clubs own and run the track machines so without them there’s no ski tracks for anyone to use but once the tracks are prepared, “allemannsretten” gives everyone the right to use it.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
OwenM wrote:
I've always found temperatures around the - 5 C down to - 15 C mark, i.e. blue wax days give the best running.
Ski flex, camber and structure can make a significant difference at what temperature skis run best at. When it gets cold the snow on prepared tracks is much more abrasive (little, pointy crystals) and you need a hard wax (blue/violet, as you said) and a softer ski to run fast on this surface otherwise it can be like skating on sandpaper.
Went out mid morning and temps were +2.5 and track was a lot more crispier being earlier.
Decided to take it easy and concentrate on technique and try and keep heart rate down, that lasted for all of a km till I hit the little climb.
With that crispy track was able to glide more on the surface unlike yesterday.
I had been watching YouTube vids earlier and still very confused as to how to migrate from V1 to V2 - might have to get OH to video me and then you can all offer helpful technique advice
That said ended up with a PB so must be getting better as no wind to help on the return leg though still slower than on the windy day (frozen track) when all I had to do was stand up.
Still very high average heart rate (158), will have to try and slow down and increase the distance working on technique.
What has to be said, is that you are not going to learn how to skate ski on a one week holiday, it's just too damn tough and intense, for sure you might get the basics with good lessons, maybe an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon but you'd have to be very fit.
I've now done nine sessions, it is a really high learning curve on a par with learning to kite surf but not as dangerous, which I learnt abroad over ten days, lessons both morning and afternoon and was still a fumbling beginner when I came back to the UK.
However was back in the UK I was surrounded my mates who all kited so had loads of help in progressing, so need to find some XC buddies!
Classic ski howver is the way to go if you want to do XC and are limited with time, and if you like beasting yourself you can still do an admirable job with classic skis
And glad I bought my season pass as they were checking for passes today.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Well another hard day at the office
Opted out of ski touring as was not too sure about snow pack and weather over the Col was cloudy, and I also wanted to push myself to go further on the trail up the valley as the morning here was pretty sunny with temps slowly rising from -1.
What I hadn't bargained for was the head wind, though no where near as strong as last week but still made things hard work. Must admit to not realising when I started out doing this how wind would be just a major pivotal factor in performance.
I decided to take it easy anyway.
Within ten minutes I saw the lady pisteur coming towards me, she'd clocked me yesterday.
Anyway Ann and I are now best buddies having had a long chat about taking up skating at my age and how it's not easy and then another chat with her on the return leg.
And after this week she says I can take Les Chiens with me as in her words looking at photos "they are minuscule" (helps she has dogs too) and as she said, next week they'll hardly be anyone around during the week.
So bit of a result and she gave me some tips and when we met second time she was impressed with how far I'd been and the time taken given the head wind.
Ended up doing 16km longest yet, 250m vert at 5.38km pace which was helped a lot by the tail wind on the return leg.
And one classic face plant and nigh on the splits whilst trying to keep up with a young girl up a hill, luckily she had the grace not to turn round and see the old git in the snow
I've always found temperatures around the - 5 C down to - 15 C mark, i.e. blue wax days give the best running.
Ski flex, camber and structure can make a significant difference at what temperature skis run best at. When it gets cold the snow on prepared tracks is much more abrasive (little, pointy crystals) and you need a hard wax (blue/violet, as you said) and a softer ski to run fast on this surface otherwise it can be like skating on sandpaper.
I've also heard that man made snow is also very abrasive on wax - is that your opinion too ? Fortunately that's never an issue in Finland where we go but I wasn't aware that it applied to cold snow. When we go to the Finnish arctic -20 is pretty common and I thought people there used green wax (although as I have stated elsewhere my understanding of waxing is very basic)
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dsoutar wrote:
davidof wrote:
OwenM wrote:
I've always found temperatures around the - 5 C down to - 15 C mark, i.e. blue wax days give the best running.
Ski flex, camber and structure can make a significant difference at what temperature skis run best at. When it gets cold the snow on prepared tracks is much more abrasive (little, pointy crystals) and you need a hard wax (blue/violet, as you said) and a softer ski to run fast on this surface otherwise it can be like skating on sandpaper.
I've also heard that man made snow is also very abrasive on wax - is that your opinion too ? Fortunately that's never an issue in Finland where we go but I wasn't aware that it applied to cold snow. When we go to the Finnish arctic -20 is pretty common and I thought people there used green wax (although as I have stated elsewhere my understanding of waxing is very basic)
I know nothing about man made snow - the cross country areas around here, apart from Autrans, have very little snowmaking although the Col de Porte are supposedly going to snow farm at the end of the winter, which will be nice. They normally open mid November so don't particularly need it.
Autrans had made this monster with their snow canon back at the start of the season
Le Sappey was sticky today, at least from the base of the trails at 900 meters to 1100 meters, it was better above.
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@davidof, what sort of heart rate are you skating at - do you manage to go nice and easy and be able to talk or are you going into anaerobic territory ?
I know it depends on terrain etc and what you're setting out to do etc
Just that for me, like today it's worthy of a turbo trainer beasting.
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