@adithorp, mmm, interesting point, I'll have to look in to it. That's how it was explained to me a long time ago and it seems to make sense then, so will look further.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
hip joint width, not 'the bony bits on the outside of your hips' (ie your pelvis). Your hip joints are about half way between your belly button and those.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Pejoli, I think that's right. Maybe it's a British interpretation of "hips" to mean the shapely curvey bits (on some of the population ) and not the actual hip joints. Do other languages have this interpretation?
@rob@rar, use me as the guinea pig by all means. I'm finding this thread very useful and hopefully in time beneficial. For getting my weight on the new outside ski early, is the clutch/accelerator analogy a good one and do i do this right at the point of starting the new turn ?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@rob@rar, Thansk for the explanation. Sounds daylight like my issues of balancing the C forces. Always concerned I'm going to fall on my inside hip.
@adithorp, Fair point about walking with your feet closer together, but I guess skiing is much more like standing than walking/running.
... is the clutch/accelerator analogy a good one and do i do this right at the point of starting the new turn ?
I think that complicates things a bit. Why not just focus on starting the turn by standing on the outside ski? If you want to help clean up your timing and aid flow from turn to turn you could use your pole plant to help. Just say, in your head or out loud if it helps, "tap, stand". The pole tap triggers the standing on the new ski, and it will probably help you to stop "snapping" at the turn. Skiing is not rocket science, and there is always the danger of us over-complicating it. Get the fundamentals working for you (and this is about as fundamental as it gets) and then you can start fine tuning everything else to get more performance from your skis.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rob@rar wrote:
....just focus on starting the turn by standing on the outside ski..
I am just here to see how many times you have to say this!!!
After all it is free
After all it is free
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@gazzaredcruiser, it took me about two years of focused training to get the whole clutch thing going, stick to simple stuff first as Rob suggests!!
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
re stance width I think it useful to think about a neutral ready position and then adjust depending what you are skiing. As others have said stance width is much less important than balancing on the outside ski. This blog and video sums my thinking up quite well... http://www.effectiveskiing.com/wiki/carving-blog/Skiing_-_the_wide_stance_debugged
@adithorp Not sure gait mechanics from running correspond well to skiing but it is an interesting point you make. I try to explain stance width in a couple ways. 1. If you are in skis and were hanging from a bar your neutral stance width would be how your feet/legs end up whilst dangling... 2. Another exercise to try is with skis on march in a spot on a flat, then try with your eye closed, then stop, look down and presto that is your neutral stance width..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@rob@rar, So you sum up then.................To start the new turn I need to stand on my fecking outside ski
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@adithorp, Fair point about walking with your feet closer together, but I guess skiing is much more like standing than walking/running.
skimottaret wrote:
@adithorp Not sure gait mechanics from running correspond well to skiing but it is an interesting point you make. ..
Which was my point. I was commenting in response to Rob who made a connection between stride width and skiing which appeared to me to be erroneous.
Change "walk" to "stand" throughout the statement and I'd agree completely.
rob@rar wrote:
...We are programmed by evolution to walk and run with our feet about hip width apart. To run either wider or narrower than that takes additional effort, for example a baby learning to walk will typically use a wide stance as they don't yet have good balance skills. When we develop those balance skills and the movement patterns that go with them I'd say more often than not stance trends towards hip width without much conscious thought or intervention.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@skimottaret, thanks for this:
Quote:
re stance width I think it useful to think about a neutral ready position and then adjust depending what you are skiing. As others have said stance width is much less important than balancing on the outside ski. This blog and video sums my thinking up quite well... http://www.effectiveskiing.com/wiki/carving-blog/Skiing_-_the_wide_stance_debugged
QI...
@gazzaredcruiser, just do what Rob says...however, you might need some guidance, so, just look at what Instructors are showing 2nd week skiers. Be a good observer. If with your best efforts and within an hour or so, if you don't feel the ski easily coming around on it's own, there could be many reasons - then, i'd have to suggest taking lessons.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
.. With the point made in the last section ...
Also, it's important to note that hip width means that the second toe is under the center of the hip joint - I know there is some confusion there, but that's how the CSCF defines it. Go on, try it right now and get a feel for it.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Pejoli,
Quote:
Also, it's important to note that hip width means that the second toe is under the center of the hip joint -
I don't think that the middle of the second toe is quite right. If you were to drop a plumb line from the greater trochanter of your femur then your second toe should be somewhere around 1.5 mm outside of that point. Obviously you would need to compensate for any incidence of genu varum or Blount's disease.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@foxtrotzulu,
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@foxtrotzulu, god dam it, i'm been working on 1.75mm. no wonder i'm sh1te at skiing....who knew!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Tim Heeney, thanks, good advice. i had a private lesson in La Plagne last year and in hindsight it was a waste of money. i asked the instructor to observe me and then work on what he felt was needed. we ended up off piste and then to finish he took me down the bump run to the left of the stadium lift which was well above my pay grade! Even i knew that!!
Another issue is, I have a 180 pair of Salomon Q98's which i find very stable to ski but i'm thinking they may be also above my pay grade and that perhaps i'd be better off on a shorter piste ski and stick the Q98's back in the quiver until i'm good enough for them.
Good skiing comes from a combination of many things fitting together. No one thing will make you great at it. Unfortunately reading a lot of Internet advice won't either. Else we could all just read books written by people who truly know what they are talking about and that would be that. Sure analyzing and thinking about it is needed but it has to be the right info at the right stage of development. Nothing replaces lots of ski time with good instruction . Needing to have your second toe exactly under your hip Centre line... Stop some people you think ski good next time you're r out and ask them where their toes sit in relation to their hip centre line. See how many Shake their heads and ski away from you quickly.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
gazzaredcruiser wrote:
Another issue is, I have a 180 pair of Salomon Q98's which i find very stable to ski but i'm thinking they may be also above my pay grade and that perhaps i'd be better off on a shorter piste ski and stick the Q98's back in the quiver until i'm good enough for them.
I think a wider ski, especially if it has a relatively large turn radius (>18m), makes it harder to develop fundamental skills, especially a clean transition between turns where you roll the ski from edge to edge with as little pivoting or pushing as possible. On the other hand, a wider ski helps develop your off-piste experience if you are skiing in deeper snow. Match your ski to the skiing you do is, I think, good advice.
If I was you, on your next holiday I would hire some Piste Skis, with a 13m - 14m radius (70-74mm under foot). The length will depend on your weight, but probably 163-170. The difference from what you are on, is like going from a Volvo Estate to a Lotus Elise.
If you like the effect, then consider buying.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 4-03-17 10:23; edited 2 times in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@rob@rar, perhaps i should hire a pair in resort and experiment. My current skis have a 19.2m radius
After all it is free
After all it is free
gazzaredcruiser wrote:
@rob@rar, perhaps i should hire a pair in resort and experiment. My current skis have a 19.2m radius
Yes, always good to try out different skis to get a feel for what they do and what works for you. I'm not saying "piste skis good, off-piste skis bad", simply that skis behave in different ways depending on their design. If you want to focus on achieving A but your skis are designed to be good at B there is always going to be a compromise that is larger than necessary.
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That made me run to double-check my ski dimensions. 84 underfoot, turn radius only 16. It's no wonder I'm such a ski goddess in all conditions. Not.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@gazzaredcruiser,
Quote:
no wonder i'm sh1te at skiing....who knew!
We knew - We've seen the video!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@foxtrotzulu, yeah, thanks for the boost!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@gazzaredcruiser, how much do you weigh & what is your height? I think as others have said a mid 70mm underfoot solid piste ski could well be a revelation to you.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I'm 5' 10 and a hefty 93kgs,
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Er....muscle is heavier than fat
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@Pejoli,
Quote:
Also, it's important to note that hip width means that the second toe is under the center of the hip joint -
I don't think that the middle of the second toe is quite right. If you were to drop a plumb line from the greater trochanter of your femur then your second toe should be somewhere around 1.5 mm outside of that point. Obviously you would need to compensate for any incidence of genu varum or Blount's disease.
Ok, probably time to confess - I'm another one who skis like John Wayne, and it's my current obsession to get comfortable with a bit narrower stance. I always thought hip width meant 'hip width' too, so could never understand why my skiing looked so dorky in videos (though to be fair, stance is only part of the problem ). Mind you, my instructors have never pulled me up on it - presumably there are bigger fish to fry. The only time i notice problems with it is when it's a bit steeper and the piste is getting bumped up and my skis start taking different routes ...
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@gazzaredcruiser, don't go too short then for a piste ski, I'd say 175-180 in a stiffer 75mm wide ski would be good to try! hopefully explain to the hire shop and they should get you on something suitable if they are a decent shop.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@kitenski, thank you
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Pejoli, Although I was gently taking the wee wee there is one serious point. I hope our resident experts will correct me if I'm wrong, but quite a large proprtion of people have a small degree of, what I've just learned is called, genu varum - i.e. bandy legs. If your legs are anything other than absolutely vertical then you will have naturally adjusted the width of your stance. See below. Surely this would make quite a difference to whether your feet are hip width apart or not? Any attempt to place them wider or narrower than is 'natural' will probably end up with the skis not lying absolutely flat. Stand with your feet wide apart and you'll notice that all the weight is on the inner edges of your feet and vice versa.
@gazzaredcruiser, don't go too short then for a piste ski, I'd say 175-180 in a stiffer 75mm wide ski would be good to try! hopefully explain to the hire shop and they should get you on something suitable if they are a decent shop.
A lot of Piste Skis have their longest length around 180, with the likes of the Magnum even less. I still think that given the OP's level, around 170 would make life easier...but I could be wrong. The joy of hiring, is that different lengths can be tried.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@gazzaredcruiser, I'd put you on piste ski, 168 to 173cm and 74 to 80mm waist with R15 to R18. I choose that length because i believe it's still reasonable to think of the ski to be no higher than your chin at your stage. When hiring, it's easy to swop/change if they don't feel right. Good skiing !
@Tim Heeney, thanks again, i'm going to hire a pair and see how i go. i'll post a second video in due course for comparison and see what you guys think.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@gazzaredcruiser, I hope you get something from this. It all starts from a solid snowplough position and correct movement patterns BUT please believe that the best skiers are constantly revisiting and refining their basic fundamentals. To my eye, when i view your video i see a confident stable skier with lack of training and a few bad habits, yes you increasingly lean back into the hill as your speed increases which is understandable - get some training and you'll come along quite well i think - honestly...
This is a birds eye view of how the Canadian Instructors do their standard piste turns at various skill levels - it isn't about 'Carving' at all. Compare the first demonstration with what you do. This is only one of many youtube videos that may benefit you but i hope that it's noticeable how a basic position / turn type is easily changed into a very advanced and highly skillful turn and the similarity between them.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) and not the actual hip joints. Do other languages have this interpretation?
The joys of being a ski instructor 
