 Poster: A snowHead
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I use a car all the time but I think the Alps trips are actually fairly hard on the car, especially one that isn't garaged. They get trashed, especially in spring when there's loads of muddy slush around and possibly ten muddy boots at the end of the day. And skis or boards, if you've not got enough room on a roof rack. Roads with rutted, hard frozen ice, are pretty hard on suspension I reckon and although the long trips down the luscious French motorways at 80 mph are not much of a strain, early morning trips to neighbouring resorts at minus 10 degrees where the engine scarcely has time to warm up are hard work. They spend much of the winter caked in road muck including salt.
In summer my car finds itself climbing some quite steep, not well surfaced, mountain roads - again, hard on suspension.
And if you can't turn off ABS (I can't, but I know some more sophisticated cars can) driving in snow, especially with chains on, does give rise to some painful-sounding graunching.
Well worth it for me, and my car is a work horse, not a prize possession to be pampered, but you shouldn't kid yourself it won't detract from its value. I do 3 or 4 trips each year; that's a lot of extra miles. But I only sell a car when it's knackered.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Um, just wondering, but why would you want to turn of ABS on snow? I think you may mean traction control... ABS is useful for any driver as it means you don't have to worry about how hard to brake: the machine does all that. It's noisy, but it doesn't actually hurt the machine. Traction control... it depends on the car if or when you'd want to take that off.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There are situations in which ABS doesn't hold an advantage in braking distance, specifically when the tyre is locked it can build up a wedge of snow or gravel in front of the contact area and significantly raise the retardation available. When ABS is in use, every time the brake is released the tyre rolls over any buildup and so looses this effect. Knowing when to use this technique is possibly beyond most but would have been more widespread prior to most cars being equipped as they are now.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| johnE wrote: |
The major cost of vehicle ownership is capital depreciation
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Agreed.
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I estimate depreciation as .06% of the value every day you own the car. In other words if you take your £15000 car (or don't) on a 10 day ski trip it will be worth £95 less when you get back.. |
Agreed again. Whether you take you car with you or not, it still depreciates.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well, for no reason I can explain in technical terms, I don't feel that chains and ABS are a good combination. I have only had ABS triggered on a very few occasions and on my old car I got an error light afterwards saying the ABS was malfunctioning. In the end, I just ignored it.
I don't think I've ever had to "brake hard" with chains on. I leave a good distance between me and the vehicle in front and drive on eggshells. I guess I've been lucky - have no real feel for what would happen if for any reason I needed to brake hard.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ABS is designed to prevent wheel lock up on icy or wet roads. It is a controlled application of the old technique of "pumping the brakes" with the added advantage that as the driver doesn't have to concentrate on the braking it is more likely that they will be able to steer the vehicle without inducing a spin. In snow or gravel conditions then the act of locking the wheels will produce a buildup in front of the wheels which assists in stopping the vehicle but not the ability to steer. There is no evidence that ABS should not be used with chains.
Unfortunately is doesn't seem to matter how carefully we drive there are always occasions when an emergency stop is necessary and the combination of chains and ABS may make a difference.
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@tarrantd, In snow my car handbook recommends switching of the stability control (it incorporates traction control) in snow. In deep snow in the UK I have found that indeed you make better progress with it switched off.
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Stability Control is a different beast and it's use in Snow can be very unhelpfull. You may recall Tiff Needell in the Gallardo on snow both with and without the stability control on and the difference it made.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I reckon the hardest work for my cars suspension is the speed bumps and appalling roads locally 
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[quote="johnE"]
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After all if there are two idendical 3 year old cars for sale and one has only done 10,000 miles and one 40,000 would you pay more for the 10,000 mile one? |
No because I'd assume it was 110,000 miles. Unless we are talking track cars or similar, pretty much nobody buys a new car and does 3,000 miles a year.
But in general I'd certainly pay less for a higher mileage car and I don't believe you can figure out the usage pattern from the service log.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
And if you can't turn off ABS (I can't, but I know some more sophisticated cars can) driving in snow, especially with chains on, does give rise to some painful-sounding graunching.
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I don't believe that there is any production car on the market where you can turn off ABS, where fitted. (without deliberately tampering with fuses)
You can, on many cars turn off the various traction and stability control devices - or at least turn them down.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@emwmarine, oh right, I must have been confusing it with traction control. But on my old car the ABS seemed to get very upset by being asked to deal with chains - and the appearance of the red light wasted me some time till I decided to ignore its occasional appearance. I assume that when the light went out the system was OK but never found out as I never had to brake really hard! In my current car, in its second alpine winter now, the ABS has almost never activated, and only when travelling very slowly with chains in very bad conditions and when I was most definitely not braking hard but where one of the driving wheels was probably on a more slippery bit of road than the other. Again, it's only 16 months old and in that time I've not had any occasion to brake really hard and put the system to a decent test.
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@dogwatch, You would be surprised at the very low mileage some people do. My elderly uncle insisted on having a car for years but only did a couple thousand miles a year, if that. I know some people who only use their car to "go down to the shops" and was once offered a car "where the owner had died and his window couldn't bear to sell it for 2 years (allegedly). Since cars are now capable of well over 100,000 miles they no longer roll over to zero at 99,999 miles.
If the variable service log shows oil changes only after 20,000 miles then the car has spent most of its time cruising on the motorway. If it required changing at 10,000 then it was doing lots of cold starts around town.
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You know it makes sense.
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At £35 for a set of chains, I think I'll buy a set for every main car I own from now on. On our one drive (so far) to the Alps they were needed to escape Flaine, and I even used them last weekend in the UK to get up the final half mile to the car park at the Llandegla MTB centre - when all around were failing miserably on the hardpacked icy snow which had frozen overnight.
Even if I never need them in the UK, knowing I've got them in the boot in winter is a nice reassurance that I stand better odds than many of not getting stranded!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Since cars are now capable of well over 100,000 miles they no longer roll over to zero at 99,999 miles.
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indeed. The last two cars I sold had done around 130K and that's what it said on the clock. I'd love to have run the last one for another few years but its MOT failure was too catastrophic to make that sensible! When looking round for a new car I was struck by the big difference in price between low and high mileage examples of the same model. Telling yourself that an extra 4K a year driving to and from the Alps makes no difference is a bit of a delusion. 
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