 Poster: A snowHead
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| jogi wrote: |
northernsoulboy, noone, but looks like majority here think it's anti-British thing  And I don't know, but on one side, I actually agree with setting some regulations. When you put kids to school, or when you go to doctor, you expect these people to know what they are doing, and you can trust them. On one side it's same with skiing. On the other side, I agree you can take your car to official service where people fixing it have certifications (and hopefully knowledge), or you can take it to your friend, who will (maybe) fix it in garage. So this can also go with skiing. Now is teaching skiing as important as prescribing antibiotics or teaching your kids how to read and write, or it's not so important and could be considered as fixing car. I'm more for second one, but obviously people writing laws think different... or better yet, they got paid by organizations trying to keep monopole in this thing.
But no matter what, at the moment rules are like they are, and if you want to play you stick to them, otherwise you carry the consequences. |
jogi, I take your point, but re doctors, few people would use an unqualified doctor, and if they really want to I'd say it should be up to them. The registration of docs is really about protecting docs, or their livelihoods, via a closed shop, not patients.
Re teachers, lots of our top private schools employ people with no formal teaching qualifications, and they seem to do OK. Einstein wasn't a registered physics teacher, but he could probably have taught high school physics. (This may be a bad example, but you see the point.) A register of teachers is really a way of protecting the teachers' livelihoods, via a closed shop, not improving learning.
That said, I'm not vastly against either, and I can see the pros.
I am against licensed skiing instructors, they are from the same mould as America's licensed barbers, FFS (eg http://www.azbarberboard.us/)
There's really only one kind of school-level physics, but there are lots of ways to teach skiing and there is absolutely no justification for the bureaucracy getting involved in who teaches who to ski, or how.
Without licensing, especially in the internet age word will soon get around that Pierre is a brilliant instructor and Dave is terrible, and Pierre will get more clients.
With licensing, people are stuck with Dave and Pierre is in jail for two hundred bleeding days.
But you're right, rules is rules.
(I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely love France and the French. Most French people I know would be as irritated by this BS as some people on here are.)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jogi wrote: |
or better yet, they got paid by organizations trying to keep monopole in this thing.
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You've hit the nail on the head here, I suspect!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| philwig wrote: |
| You are simply confusing a research qualification with the ability to teach. |
I'm well aware of the difference between the types of qualification, not least having worked towards teaching qualifications (in skiing) and research qualifications (in volcano geophysics) amongst others things. However, popular opinion is to rank qualifications and generally to regard higher level of qualifications as "better" even if the nature of the teacher's qualification doesn't correlate to a high performance in the aspect of the qualification that the student would like to benefit from.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Whereas I do not particularly advocate strongly bureaucratic licensing systems, notwithstanding the unfortunate subject of this thread it strikes me that the French are being rather harshly criticised when comparing them with other countries. It strikes me that France has an unparalleled competitive ski school system that appears to serve both consumers and instructors reasonably well.
Most major resorts have several competing ski schools and independent instructors offering a wide rage of different teaching methods and course types at many price points whist instructors get a higher percentage of the fees than in many other places.
Compare and contrast with USA land of the free market where most resorts have a single ski school monopoly and in my experience charge high prices for frequently mediocre lessons from teachers sometimes without much qualification and pay their teachers little.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Neither side is totally right in this matter it is not black and white. From the little bits we seem to be fed from various sources SB could have been way more tactful and worked with the system while trying to effect changes from within. Also I do think there is an element of protectionism from the French people involved in this case. I do not blame them for being this way but the system should stop them from doing so, as it often does in this country.
But one thing is very clear neither the TT or Euro Test have any significance in the teaching ability of an instructor from any of the bodies be it ESF, BASI, CSIA etc etc for teaching anyone other than racers and maybe some very advanced/expert skiers and while these remain as conditions many excellent instructors/teachers will be denied to people wanting to learn and improve their skiing.
This can only be to the detriment of the sport in general.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My own personal experience is that those who have gone through the Euro Test training become better instructors for all levels as a result od their increased understanding of skiing and the learning process they themselves have had to go through as well as being inspirational to watch.
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| Quote: |
neither the TT or Euro Test have any significance in the teaching ability of an instructor from any of the bodies be it ESF, BASI, CSIA etc etc for teaching anyone other than racers and maybe some very advanced/expert skiers and while these remain as conditions many excellent instructors/teachers will be denied to people wanting to learn and improve their skiing.
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there seems to be a steady over-supply of wannabe ski instructors. How would you sift them out, speed098? Offer the lowest wages anybody would work for? (the way UK chalet operators get their chalet staff?).
As TTT says most French ski resorts have a competitive range of ski schools offering lessons at a very wide range of prices. Wider than any other Alpine country, possibly. So at some level the system works tolerably well. It would be difficult to sustain an argument that customers are denied choice.
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I know ski instructors personally that if put to the task of doing the TT and even the Eurotest would find it easier to thread an Elephant through the eye of a sewing needle.
Does this mean they are just average or at best good instructors because they have no chance of passing a SPEED ! test? NO ! they are dam good instructors in fact brilliant instructors who inspire confidence make their pupils feel at ease and make the lesson fit the needs of the pupil, and are able to give excellent precise demonstrations.
There may well be an oversupply of wannabe ski instructors but being able to race does not mean they are good instructors being able to ski technically perfect does not make them good instructors but is a good foundation to then see if they have the ability/aptitude to teach.
At no point do I suggest customers are denied choice but that they are being denied the access to some great instructors who can not work there because they can not pass a pathetic speed test.
Any half decent ski school should strive to have the best instructors/teachers not the fastest.
I believe all instructors should have the chance to earn a living wage, IF ! they are good enough instructors to warrant this not just have the option because oh they happen to be faster than someone else. So teaching ability would dictate the earnings of an instructor. There has been enough comments on Snowheads already re recommendations for good instructors so this system can and does work no wannabe boy/girl racer who happens to be super quick but just wants to ski all day and looks on customers as a means to do this will last for very long.
I am not disputing the training for both these tests is not very useful to improve the skiing standard of an instructor but the point is for teaching beginners and intermediate is it really essential to the point of not being able to pass a test of speed at the end you in reality are deemed not good enough to teach these two levels of skier ?
If they said you had to pass this to teach advanced or above then I could understand and grudgingly accept the speed tests and I do think for teaching/coaching racers this should be compulsory.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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[quote="speed098"]But one thing is very clear neither the TT or Euro Test have any significance in the teaching ability of an instructor...[/quote]
Maybe, but considering seeing videos of some member of SH "skiing", and the reading they passed one or the other test and qualify as instructors, I really don't mind French require something more then being able to clip skis on. You don't need to know how to ski to be good teacher, and in racing, huge majority of good/great coaches were mediocre (at best) racers themself, but you should still know how to stand on skis, to be teach others how to ski. So TT actually does something in this area.
PS: Things are not all that different from French system somewhere else (Austria, Slovenia...) either
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The point is that Euro Test training not only improves your skiing ability but also your teaching ability so it is not just about speed. I also know many lower qualified instructors who although technically capable are not credible in tems of performance. A lot of the debate on here is understandably from a UK perspective. However, if you look from the perpsective of skiing countries the lower instructor levels are just not credible in a European environment and a typical local skier would be capable of training to do their ISIA in which case level 4 makes a lot of sense as otherwise they are better than their instructor.. I thinks Brit ski instructors should aspire to the standards of skiing countries rather than expecting them to accept lower standard ski instructors than they expect themselves.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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^ ISIA = I Ski In Aviemore
or so the joke goes
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Haha !! But it's a circuitous thread regulated by UKIP rules. England is Britain.
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| pam w wrote: |
there seems to be a steady over-supply of wannabe ski instructors. How would you sift them out, |
The same way as most other trades, in the UK at least; leave it to the market. It can be harsh, but I've lived with it for 35 years and in my field it's produced astonishing advances in that time to the benefit of all (literally, everyone).
People have commented, quite correctly, that passing the TT and/or ET implies a high level of technical excellence, and I see nothing wrong in incorporating such tests as part and parcel of achieving qualifications. But it should be for the customer to assess the importance of those to him, along with other factors, when choosing an instructor / teacher / coach.
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You know it makes sense.
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| speed098 wrote: |
| Neither side is totally right in this matter it is not black and white. |
That's not my understanding of the court's decision.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I thinks Brit ski instructors should aspire to the standards of skiing countries rather than expecting them to accept lower standard ski instructors than they expect themselves.
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+1
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Poster: A snowHead
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A free market does not mean an efficient and affective market. I work in a regulated market and the quality of work in countries without professional qualifications is appalling. This is why markets generally accept the requirement for laws and regulations. The question is the extent of the laws and regulations for those markets to be effective. From a UK perspective some are entirely satisfied with lower standards. From a French perspective their standards make a lot of sense. It is bizarre to have UKIP arguing that we should impose lower standards on other countries contrary to EU law.
SB has been poorly advised by his lawyers and so called supporters. No lawyer or advisor would honestly recommend going to court if it can be possibly avoided. SB should have sat down with BASI, ESF and the french authorities to sort out his carte pro long ago rather than being confrontational. At some point he should ask himself why he has a problem when hundreds work in France without a problem.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| TTT wrote: |
| A lot of the debate on here is understandably from a UK perspective. However, if you look from the perpsective of skiing countries the lower instructor levels are just not credible in a European environment and a typical local skier would be capable of training to do their ISIA in which case level 4 makes a lot of sense as otherwise they are better than their instructor.. I thinks Brit ski instructors should aspire to the standards of skiing countries rather than expecting them to accept lower standard ski instructors than they expect themselves. |
People from skiing countries are really not in the market for traditional ski school lessons, so that's irrelevant. They either learn from family, race clubs, or school trips (if they live further away from the mountains).
At that level of skiing you need a coach, not an instructor. Instructors and ski schools cater pretty much exclusively to tourists, and how many of them actually need high level race performance type lessons? Less than 5%, at a guess.
Though I would agree that Brit skiers in general should measure themselves against and aspire to the standards of the alpine countries, rather than proclaiming themselves experts after 10 weeks on snow etc. It's like you constantly need to add the caveat 'for a Brit.'
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 19-06-14 15:43; edited 2 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jogi wrote: |
| speed098 wrote: |
| But one thing is very clear neither the TT or Euro Test have any significance in the teaching ability of an instructor... |
Maybe, but considering seeing videos of some member of SH "skiing", and the reading they passed one or the other test and qualify as instructors, I really don't mind French require something more then being able to clip skis on. You don't need to know how to ski to be good teacher, and in racing, huge majority of good/great coaches were mediocre (at best) racers themself, but you should still know how to stand on skis, to be teach others how to ski. So TT actually does something in this area.
PS: Things are not all that different from French system somewhere else (Austria, Slovenia...) either |
Oh really? Austrian Anwärter is a pretty low level qualification (probably equivalent to BASI 1.5) and some pretty terrible skiers pass that!
On the other hand I know some great instructors (and skiers) who have been teaching with only the Anwärter for 10-20 years, and the majority of instructors in most ski schools are Anwärters. Seems like in Switzerland there are also plenty of instructors working with low level qualifications, BASI 2 etc. Funny how you still hear way more complaints of the quality of instruction in France...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| jogi wrote: |
| speed098 wrote: |
| But one thing is very clear neither the TT or Euro Test have any significance in the teaching ability of an instructor... |
Maybe, but considering seeing videos of some member of SH "skiing", and the reading they passed one or the other test and qualify as instructors, I really don't mind French require something more then being able to clip skis on. You don't need to know how to ski to be good teacher, and in racing, huge majority of good/great coaches were mediocre (at best) racers themself, but you should still know how to stand on skis, to be teach others how to ski. So TT actually does something in this area.
PS: Things are not all that different from French system somewhere else (Austria, Slovenia...) either |
1. A bit disrespectful to people here who have worked really hard to improve their skiing and pass BASI L1 and intend to continue improving and hopefully progressing up the BASI ladder. At some point you were a beginner then an intermediate maybe how would you feel if someone showed you such disrespect after you had worked so hard especially with a keen willingness to continue improving which they have shown they are doing at a very respectable if not impressive rate.
2. you like the idea that the French require something more than being able to clip skis on yet accept that some coaches were mediocre (at best) racers. well passing these two tests would require a level quite a bit above mediocre.
I do not think anyone is disputing that the TT or Euro test will make someone a better skier, but is it really essential to be able to ski within "X" % of a zero FIS racer to teach beginners or even intermediates and the answer has to be NO !
Is it essential to teach advanced ? Possibly, for teaching experts I would say yes and for teaching racers I would say it should be compulsory.
Will it enhance your actual teaching skills maybe but not guaranteed, after all your are concentrating more on racing to be within the time limit though it should improve your ability for accurate and precise demo's.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The largest market for skiing and ski instruction in the main ski countries are still mainly tourists as most don't live near the mountains. I actually have sympathy for both sides of the argument but just trying to give an alternative local perspective.
The French tend to get stick here because that is the largest UK market and where the British instructors can and do largely set up. And yes I do think some people take themselves too seriously at the lower levels when I compare skiing with level 2/3s and locals hence my caveats.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
you ...accept that some coaches were mediocre (at best) racers. well passing these two tests would require a level quite a bit above mediocre.
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It's all relative, speed098, "mediocre" compared to somebody who races for the French ski team doesn't mean they are only just past the snowplough stage. There are probably not too many British skiers who could come anywhere near the standard of a French racing coach.
Andy Murray could no doubt slaughter Amelie Mauresmo in a singles match but that doesn't mean she's not a good tennis player and a good coach.
And the point bears making again - there's a lot more choice and competition in the French market than in some of the others. Megeve, where Simon Butler operates, is not a large resort but there are probably half a dozen ski schools, including one British one and several who employ some British instructors, in competition with the ESF.
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From my local skier perspective level 2 is intermediate, level 3 advanced and level 4 expert. I've seen plenty level 2s who are not comfortable off-piste, in bumps and most worryingly not comfortable in white outs which would be concerning if you were leading a group and get caught in bad conditions. A good experienced level 2 in reality is fine for beginners, level 3 for holiday intermediates and 4 for advanced skiers. I'd expect level 4s to have more coaching and experience to coach racing. Level 4 still are typically not just better skiers but also better teachers as a result of their additional training including Euro Test and experience. Does not mean that I don't have a lot of respect for people doing their level 1/2 but locals and trainers would not consider this a good standard of skiing. Level 3 yes and here I think the opportunities to work in France could be improved. However under EU law countries can set their own standards.
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I'd agree with TTT. I would also add that the constant "but I know level 1/2's who are BRILLIANT instructors but can't pass the higher levels" thing gets a bit old. For sure, there are level 2s who are good instructors and level 4s who are not great at teaching, but these are exceptions. On average, highly-qualified instructors are going to be much better than those holding lower qualifications.
Don't forget that achieving the highest levels is not just about technique and racing. There is also a huge amount of training in how to teach effectively.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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[quote="speed098"]1. A bit disrespectful to people here who have worked really hard to improve their skiing and pass BASI L1 and intend to continue improving and hopefully progressing up the BASI ladder. At some point you were a beginner then an intermediate maybe how would you feel if someone showed you such disrespect after you had worked so hard especially with a keen willingness to continue improving which they have shown they are doing at a very respectable if not impressive rate.[/quote]
I guess I look at this a bit different way. Personally, I would first learn how to ski myself, and then "work hard to pass some test and qualify as instructor". Sorry, disrespectful or not, but someone who can hardly know how to snowplough has nothing to do being ski instructor. I don't say anything about people who don't know how to ski, but I do have a lot against such people trying to teach others.
[quote="speed098"]2. you like the idea that the French require something more than being able to clip skis on yet accept that some coaches were mediocre (at best) racers. well passing these two tests would require a level quite a bit above mediocre.[/quote]
I hope you do understand difference between mediocre skier and mediocre racer Really bad racer in places around here is still light years ahead of really great recreational skier without racing background. So being mediocre racer still means you ski better then pretty much anyone you see on hill
[quote="speed098"]I do not think anyone is disputing that the TT or Euro test will make someone a better skier, but is it really essential to be able to ski within "X" % of a zero FIS racer to teach beginners or even intermediates and the answer has to be NO ![/quote]
Well in my mind, yes it is essential. Because you might get someone else then total beginner too, and you will do then what with "I can almost snowplough down the blue run" knowledge? Thing is, in this open/free market probably don't really work. You don't pick services of certain ski school or ski instructor on daily basis. You go to ski holidays once a year, maybe few times, and today you go to one place, tomorrow to other. Bad ski school or bad ski instructor, won't really lose you as client, as you most likely wouldn't even be back even if they would be great. It's a bit easier today with internet, and maybe free market would solve these issues to some extent but it still wouldn't solve everything out.
[b]clarky999[/b], true, but if you are foreigner in Austria, you can't be teaching unless you have certain level. Same goes for Slovenia and Italy, and as we saw France.
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jogi, where did you get the idea that a BASI Level 2, or even a BASI Level 1, is
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someone who can hardly know how to snowplough
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Genuine Question....
Like many I have followed this case on the interweb.
Why was Simon Butler not granted exempetion from the Euro Test in 2001 ?
Surely as an old school BASI grade 1 he was entiteld to grandfather rights ?
So did Simon not accept them ? Or did BASI / French refuse to grant his excemption ?
Remember that under this agrement he would have be able to work as an independent, but not employ other instructors (as he previously had done for 10 years).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| jogi wrote: |
clarky999, true, but if you are foreigner in Austria, you can't be teaching unless you have certain level. Same goes for Slovenia and Italy, and as we saw France. |
Yes you can (I have!), either the Anwärter or BASI 2 is enough; both low level qualifications which can be passed by pretty poor skiers. The only thing limited by your qualification level (in Austria) is teaching offpiste or working independently/starting your own ski school.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 20-06-14 21:07; edited 1 time in total
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I think the basis upon which Simon has been operating has got lost in this discussion although I may have missed something in a not entirely thorough reading of the thread. Simon is not operating a ski school in competition with the local schools (whether French, English or otherwise). What he is offering is teaching for his own chalet guests but not otherwise. If Simon pulls out of Megeve his guests will go too so Megeve will have lost a reasonably significant number of visitors each winter week although doubtless someone else would take over his premmises and continue in the hospitality industry from them.
My understanding of the speed test, but this was as told to me many years ago by the great Fred Harper, is that the applicants are required to commplete a giant slalom course at what is effectively lower level world cup racing speed. This is no way to measure whether an inividual can teach skiing and arguably should not therefore be a prerequsite for meeting the qualifications to teach in France or any other country. Teaching is a very special skill and people in all walks of life who are very talented in their field of endeavour do not necessarily make good teachers or have the ability to assist others in acquiring their skills.
That said the rules are the rules and it seems to me that if Simon has fallen foul of the rules, as apparently have others, then the rules need review.
Personally I think this is protectionism primarily within the community in Megeve.
I am very sad this has happene to Simon and his employees, he offers a very good packaged product which appeals to Brits and even though it follows the usual chalet style inclusivity of accommodation and food plus half days teaching his guests still have to eat lunch in the local restaurants, they frequent local bars and clubs and buy the usual clatch we all tend to bring back from our hols.
Perhaps Megeve thinks Simons operation is a bit "down market" for their town, certainly we were met with some disdain in one of the "better" restaurants on the mountain on our first visit when the lady proprietor asked where we were staying and then said "Oh Simon Butler guests usually eat in the cafeteria downstairs". She changed her tune over a successive days when we had a full lunch, bottle of wine and liqueurs and so contributed to her coffers at a rate generally above our station but we were enjoying ourselves and, I hasten to add, we didnt ski in the afternoons. We earned a chalet end of week award for "extreme lunching"!
I hope Simon finds a way through this bureaucratic nightmare and is able to return to his business for next season. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| Simon is not operating a ski school in competition with the local schools (whether French, English or otherwise). What he is offering is teaching for his own chalet guests but not otherwise. If Simon pulls out of Megeve his guests will go too so Megeve will have lost a reasonably significant number of visitors each winter week although doubtless someone else would take over his premmises and continue in the hospitality industry from them. |
Yes, and send their guests to the local ski schools, French AND British. SB is running a business that offers ski instruction for visitors to the ski resort, and it seems a bit silly to claim that his product is not in competition with local ski schools
| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| Personally I think this is protectionism primarily within the community in Megeve. |
Really? Are lots of other people throughout the French Alps happily doing what SBS has been doing (e.g. employing non ISTD instructors without official approval) without any problems?
| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| Perhaps Megeve thinks Simons operation is a bit "down market" for their town, certainly we were met with some disdain in one of the "better" restaurants on the mountain on our first visit when the lady proprietor asked where we were staying and then said "Oh Simon Butler guests usually eat in the cafeteria downstairs". She changed her tune over a successive days when we had a full lunch, bottle of wine and liqueurs and so contributed to her coffers at a rate generally above our station |
You've mentioned this story before. I don't really see how slating the locals helps SBS… I've never seen Laundryman compelled to do it; in fact, I have seen him, SB and another of SB's clients (RSVPN or something like that) say that SBS has had a lot of support from locals in Megeve.
I think so too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| My understanding of the speed test, but this was as told to me many years ago by the great Fred Harper, is that the applicants are required to commplete a giant slalom course at what is effectively lower level world cup racing speed. |
Your understanding is incorrect, the standard is that of a fairly good club racer.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| stevomcd wrote: |
I'd agree with TTT. I would also add that the constant "but I know level 1/2's who are BRILLIANT instructors but can't pass the higher levels" thing gets a bit old. For sure, there are level 2s who are good instructors and level 4s who are not great at teaching, but these are exceptions. On average, highly-qualified instructors are going to be much better than those holding lower qualifications.
Don't forget that achieving the highest levels is not just about technique and racing. There is also a huge amount of training in how to teach effectively. |
I don't know. There are quite a few Instructors who for one reason or another have not found the move to L3 or L4 a compelling one, but who have continued their Professional Development through other associations and\or training. The fact that they didn't follow the specific pathway of a single training body doesn't mean they stopped training.
That said, it does make them a less obvious choice from the point of view of someone choosing an Instructor, but perhaps this is where recommendations make a difference.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If he wants to teach in France he should pass his BASI 4 and if he can't do that or doesn't want to do that then he can teach somewhere else.
Maybe I don't understand the problem...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rjs wrote: |
| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| My understanding of the speed test, but this was as told to me many years ago by the great Fred Harper, is that the applicants are required to commplete a giant slalom course at what is effectively lower level world cup racing speed. |
Your understanding is incorrect, the standard is that of a fairly good club racer. |
I think you are misleading people if the tests especially the TT were that easy that a fairly good club racer can pass then many more skiers would do so. I remember seeing info re pass rates a while back and they were not that high maybe someone knows were this info is and can post it along with a few time examples.
I do not think it is lower level WC std, but probably the std of an average or even above avaerage Europa Cup skier which would be well above a fairly good club racer.
No one disputes the training for this will not improve a skiers ability but it will not improve their teaching skills. Someone who is a L3 BASI should already be doing excellent ski demo's for beginners and intermediates.
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In Feb, Phil Smith posted an interesting Blog post about equivalency and whatnot with regards to skiing and teaching in France. He's since been contacted by Jean-Yves Lapeyrère secretary to the European Confederation of Outdoor Employers, who has corrected him about a few issues and Phil has updated his blog accordingly with the relevant comments.
It's worth a read:
http://www.snoworks.co.uk/blog/?p=6973
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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feef, those corrections are very interesting - thanks for posting
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The comments on the snoworks blog are from someone who is advising SB and has also had issues with the French authorities. The best source is always the original laws and regulations namely the EU directive. I have read the current and new directive and believe the french authorities interpretation of EU law is correct.
Local club racers I know are within 10pc of the world cup standard and racing at regional level. The ET has an 18pc allowance. I understand that the ET is the entry level for instructors in Italy. Level 4 instructors have far more training and experience than a level 3 and therefore are generally not only better skiers but better instructors.
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speed098, On the current rankings there are 30 British male skiers who would be exempt from even needing to do the Eurotest, there are another 30 or so who are within the expected pass standard.
Test Technique level is "starting to get the hang of it". A Europa Cup racer could hike up to a missed gate and still pass.
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| TTT wrote: |
The comments on the snoworks blog are from someone who is advising SB and has also had issues with the French authorities. The best source is always the original laws and regulations namely the EU directive. I have read the current and new directive and believe the french authorities interpretation of EU law is correct.
Local club racers I know are within 10pc of the world cup standard and racing at regional level. The ET has an 18pc allowance. I understand that the ET is the entry level for instructors in Italy. Level 4 instructors have far more training and experience than a level 3 and therefore are generally not only better skiers but better instructors. |
However, it's still interesting to see a different perspective on the same statements
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rjs wrote: |
speed098, On the current rankings there are 30 British male skiers who would be exempt from even needing to do the Eurotest, there are another 30 or so who are within the expected pass standard.
Test Technique level is "starting to get the hang of it". A Europa Cup racer could hike up to a missed gate and still pass. |
Really ... are you one of these British skiers? Mind you compared to the skiers round here I wouldn't be looking for role models amongst them ...
A friend of my son passed his TT with 4-5 seconds to spare and skis in Europa Cup events. The day my son attempted his for the first time in March only 7 out of 80 odd passed with many having a lot of club racing experience (the same day that his friend passed (as above). He's been "taken under the wing" of an ex-French team trainer. No racism here 
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marksavoie, Take a look at some European Cup slalom results, even guys starting at the back are below 30 points.
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FAQ
