 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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achilles, also, thinking back a few years, didn't Range Rover sponsor the reps? Not sure if they still do or how much, but any sponsorship monies would be used by the repping dept. solely and not used to cross subsidise the rest of the club's activities. Likewise, any advertising revenue drawn form reps' snow reports would be ringfenced by the the reps dept.
I believe someone just wanting to avail themselves of the repping programme would, in fact, see a reduction in their membership fee.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Scrumpy wrote: |
| Before there were half a dozen members trying to refute DG's interminable and oft repeated arguments on a dozen annually repeated topics |
surely, that means they were enjoying themselves. Forums are simply a form of entertainment. Frankly, when DG "the molester" makes a reappearance on here he livens things up a bit. |
Forums are simply a form of entertainment? This thread has discussed some very serious issues including the death of someone in a skiing accident. If you think some of your bigoted posts and sarcasm on this thread are "entertainment" then I feel you need to take a close look at yourself.
I was one of the members on the ski club board that stood up to DG's misrepresentations and I assure you that I took no pleasure in doing so. I do not like causing offence to people including you, but unfortunately I think at times there is no choice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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richjp, Perhaps you have a rather narrow view of what is "entertainment".
Of course internet forums are (mainly) simply a form of entertainment, regardless of the fact that sometimes serious issues can be discussed, and a lot of useful information can be gleaned.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, 200,000 members? can't see why they would want to join your no frills op. However, if the membership approached anything near that, you really would have to have a fully commercial company running it. Swillerski perhaps? In which case, why not get on with it and start up your own company to do just that? You seem to think the business is there. |
The business model would be totally different to what you're used to and running a large membership on a no-frills basis is a helluva lot easier and cheaper than 30,000 full service. With 1.2 million skiers, a national ski club should have a far bigger membership and 200,000 isn't unrealistic.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| PJSki, If you end up with 2 tiers along the lines that AxsMan suggests, then I reckon the top tier would need to be circa £150 and the lower tier of say £35 (haven't sat down to work that out, just a guess). |
I suggest you go away and work it out, in that case. Then come back to us with something factual.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
richjp, Perhaps you have a rather narrow view of what is "entertainment".
Of course internet forums are (mainly) simply a form of entertainment, regardless of the fact that sometimes serious issues can be discussed, and a lot of useful information can be gleaned. |
What David Goldsmith was doing wasn't 'entertainment'. The club message board is a much nicer place now he's been banned.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, 200,000 members? can't see why they would want to join your no frills op. However, if the membership approached anything near that, you really would have to have a fully commercial company running it. Swillerski perhaps? In which case, why not get on with it and start up your own company to do just that? You seem to think the business is there. |
The business model would be totally different to what you're used to and running a large membership on a no-frills basis is a helluva lot easier and cheaper than 30,000 full service. With 1.2 million skiers, a national ski club should have a far bigger membership and 200,000 isn't unrealistic. |
Just out of interest, what were you planning on offering for £10 that 200k people would find essential? Porn?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| PJSki wrote: |
AxsMan, "1) SCGB reps will no longer lead groups off piste"
You're stating that like it's a fact, when it isn't a fact according to the comments I've seen from reps on the SCGB board. Pretty much all the reps who have commented say that the new policy won't change things for them. Seems like a lot of panicking from some members, as well as some political opportunism from other, has clouded the facts. |
Sorry if it came over that way. I thought I'd said 'these are what appear to be the issues - is that correct'. it was meant as a question not a statement.
If it's not true that reps will no longer lead off piste then much of the brouhaha here is groundless. But how sure are you that it's not?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| AxsMan, two tiers would seem to be a good suggestion. If, currently, say 10% use reps and the cost of running the rep prog is approx £250k, you are in fact suggesting an almighty price hike for those who want repping. Haven't got my abacus handy but their membership would need to be in the order of £150 I reckon and that alone would see off many. From what I can glean, the place is basically run by the reps so are you not asking mosquitos to cure malaria? |
I have a gut feel that your figures are probably about right. If so then it still represents good value for anyone who makes much use of the service. Say 5 days a year of rep-lead skiing for £30 a day? That's very cheap.
You are probably right about the mosquitos though. Do they survive above 1800m? 
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| richjp wrote: |
Forums are simply a form of entertainment? This thread has discussed some very serious issues including the death of someone in a skiing accident. If you think some of your bigoted posts and sarcasm on this thread are "entertainment" then I feel you need to take a close look at yourself.
I was one of the members on the ski club board that stood up to DG's misrepresentations and I assure you that I took no pleasure in doing so. I do not like causing offence to people including you, but unfortunately I think at times there is no choice. |
Yes, in actual fact it was me that brought up the subject of death and, if you've read much of it, you'll see that I do take it seriously. I'm assuming that you'd prefer a forum that shows no humour and one where nobody disagrees with you... I take it that's what you mean by bigoted and DG's so-called "misrepresentations" - from what I've seen they are just an alternate view. Forums are entertainment - ie using your time doing something you quite like. I wasn't describing Sammy Davis Jnr or Celine Dion. You sound incredibly pompous.
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You know it makes sense.
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AxsMan, a number of reps have come forward and said they will be leading off-piste under the new rules in much the same way as they did under the old ones. No mention from the club that off-piste repping might be stopped in any of their statements.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 27-11-07 20:06; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| achilles wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, why would there be a price hike? Surely I could just pay my share of the repping costs, as could the other users of the service? Not interested in the mag, don't use the discounts, not too bothered about the website or skitv, so I don't see why I should pay for them if I don't use them. |
I agree with you there, David has to realise the modular game can go 2 ways. I don't want the library, discount, or insurance. Quite like the mag, but you can keep skiTV. Others would want different modules I am sure. We could get into some very silly pricing games. |
I don't use the insurance or Ski TV either and am very unlikely to ever visit the library. Discounts are a good feature in that used properly they make the rest free. But what's so 'silly' about menu pricing anyway. Our local golf club offers reduced memberships to 'non-playing' members, i.e. to folk who just want to come to the socials and drink in the bar. doesn't seem silly or complex to me.
It used to be that hotels would only rent room Saturday to Saturday. Some French hotels still do. most have embraced consumer choice and you can now go from Tuesday to Tuesday if you choose. Likewise you can eat the 'set menu' or 'top up' and go a la carte. Isn't offering choice a good thing?
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Poster: A snowHead
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PJSki, But clearly it is a concern to many. (or we wouldn't be on page 18 )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| PJSki wrote: |
| Just out of interest, what were you planning on offering for £10 that 200k people would find essential? Porn? |
Ski porn maybe but it'll be a family affair. Using a very low entry fee isn't a new idea... American's do it a lot. The key is to firstly make someone a signed-up member. With such a low fee you'd find tour ops and shops, slopes etc willing to give it away free rather than offer cash discounts (they don't pay the full £10 of course). Then thanks to the power of a big membership base more exciting discount offers can be made available to members... that far outweigh the cost (if any) of membership. Add on sales like holidays, guiding, merchandise, gear etc to that membership is the cream. 200,000 is a chunky enough number that say car companies and the like will come in with chunky sponsorship bucks. I have seen a model for a ski club along these lines and, although it won't be anything to do with me, I hope they do it... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| richjp wrote: |
Forums are simply a form of entertainment? This thread has discussed some very serious issues including the death of someone in a skiing accident. If you think some of your bigoted posts and sarcasm on this thread are "entertainment" then I feel you need to take a close look at yourself.
I was one of the members on the ski club board that stood up to DG's misrepresentations and I assure you that I took no pleasure in doing so. I do not like causing offence to people including you, but unfortunately I think at times there is no choice. |
Yes, in actual fact it was me that brought up the subject of death and, if you've read much of it, you'll see that I do take it seriously. I'm assuming that you'd prefer a forum that shows no humour and one where nobody disagrees with you... I take it that's what you mean by bigoted and DG's so-called "misrepresentations" - from what I've seen they are just an alternate view. Forums are entertainment - ie using your time doing something you quite like. I wasn't describing Sammy Davis Jnr or Celine Dion. You sound incredibly pompous. |
Pointless raking up again. What's done is done and he has been banned, and rightly so according to the majority of users. The result is a much better forum, so the club can take the credit for that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bode Swiller, I think I signed up to such a thing several years ago at a Ski show. It was called something like the World Ski Association and had a UK base in Sheffield dry ski slopes. It was basically discounts for skiing related purchases.
Discounts were fine, particularly for US lift tickets, but I found other ways of getting discounts.
It was nothing like the SCGB of course and to me it had far less appeal.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| Just out of interest, what were you planning on offering for £10 that 200k people would find essential? Porn? |
Ski porn maybe but it'll be a family affair. Using a very low entry fee isn't a new idea... American's do it a lot. The key is to firstly make someone a signed-up member. With such a low fee you'd find tour ops and shops, slopes etc willing to give it away free rather than offer cash discounts (they don't pay the full £10 of course). Then thanks to the power of a big membership base more exciting discount offers can be made available to members... that far outweigh the cost (if any) of membership. Add on sales like holidays, guiding, merchandise, gear etc to that membership is the cream. 200,000 is a chunky enough number that say car companies and the like will come in with chunky sponsorship bucks. I have seen a model for a ski club along these lines and, although it won't be anything to do with me, I hope they do it... |
Discounts are not a good way of building a mutual club. All they do is attracted the wrong sort of 'member'. I'm loathed to even call them members. I wish the ski club would simply do away with the whole discount scheme.
I take it the club you've seen is to be run for profit?
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Latchigo, "World Ski Association"
I remember them. I think they want into receivership.
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PJSki, That's that business model checked out, then.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, yes, just like it has been for all those stupid book, wine and restaurant 'clubs'. I wonder how many failed businesses Mr Swiller has to his name, if he thinks that's a good business plan? Trouble is, these schemes often get sold as franchise 'opportunities' to rather naive investors.
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| PJSki wrote: |
Discounts are not a good way of building a mutual club.
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That is your opinion. Not everybody agrees.
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All they do is attracted the wrong sort of 'member'. I'm loathed to even call them members.
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And what is the "wrong sort" of member then?
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I wish the ski club would simply do away with the whole discount scheme.
I take it the club you've seen is to be run for profit? |
There is no reason why the model he put forward should be run for profit.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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PJSki, Yes, the US end went belly up and the knock-on affected the UK end. That's not the model I've seen in business plan form though - I've seen a very fresh idea. Profit... yes, absolutely, why run a business or a club without making that a priority - not aiming for a profit generally sees the cash flow drying up. I just don't get this not-for-profit nonsense... more spin... it really means can't-make-a-profit or we-waste-cash. The best way to be "not-for-profit" is to go out and make as big a profit as possible and then have the luxury of deciding how to spend it for the benefit of the members.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Except that you can't call it a profit then. it has to be a "surplus". 
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alex_heney, "That is your opinion"
Yes, obviously it's my opinion. Whose did you think it was? 
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You know it makes sense.
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PJSki, You appeared to be stating it as fact, rather than opinion. Probably unintentionally.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| PJSki wrote: |
| I wonder how many failed businesses Mr Swiller has to his name, if he thinks that's a good business plan? Trouble is, these schemes often get sold as franchise 'opportunities' to rather naive investors. |
Answer = none, but two very successful enterprises, thanks for asking. I hope you noted that I said it wasn't going to involve ME, therefore you might have worked out that it doesn't actually interest me either, I merely put it forward as another way of doing something. And the reason it is worth debating is that after 104 years our country's national ski club has only mustered less than 2% of the market... that's called failure.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| PJSki, Yes, the US end went belly up and the knock-on affected the UK end. That's not the model I've seen in business plan form though - I've seen a very fresh idea. Profit... yes, absolutely, why run a business or a club without making that a priority - not aiming for a profit generally sees the cash flow drying up. I just don't get this not-for-profit nonsense... more spin... it really means can't-make-a-profit or we-waste-cash. The best way to be "not-for-profit" is to go out and make as big a profit as possible and then have the luxury of deciding how to spend it for the benefit of the members. |
In which case you are running it not-for-profit. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| PJSki, You appeared to be stating it as fact, rather than opinion. Probably unintentionally. |
Anything I say, unless expressly stated as a fact and supported with evidence, is just my opinion, in my opinion and that's a fact.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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[quote="Bode Swiller"]
| PJSki wrote: |
| ...... And the reason it is worth debating is that after 104 years our country's national ski club has only mustered less than 2% of the market... that's called failure. |
Er, no it's not. At the AGM I went to some members did no want the Club to grow quickly, if at all. It's a legitimate viewpoint. A club is run to fulfil the wishes of its membership, not for the outright growth that a fully commercial operation would be after.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles, well, clearly, a well-run business works to a plan and a good plan wouldn't allow for spending of ALL of the surplus. You're a very naughty gnome for misreading it that way. You know what I meant.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="achilles"]
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| ...... And the reason it is worth debating is that after 104 years our country's national ski club has only mustered less than 2% of the market... that's called failure. |
Er, no it's not. At the AGM I went to some members did no want the Club to grow quickly, if at all. It's a legitimate viewpoint. A club is run to fulfil the wishes of its membership, not for the outright growth that a fully commercial operation would be after. |
Why the membership drives at all the ski shows, attending all the on-snow events around the alps, reps targetted to sign people up, magazine promos, lamb-guzzling sign-written Saabs etc etc ad infinitum. Face it, the club spends a lot of your membership running around trying to sign people up who aren't exactly flocking to fill in the forms. You are now making me laugh.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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achilles, also, the 2% quoted is not supported by evidence. Where numbers are quoted, they must have supporting evidence to be taken seriously. Maybe it's another one of Mr Swiller's guesses?
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Bode Swiller, "lamb-guzzling"
Is that legal? Sounds like something you've made up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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[quote="Bode Swiller"]
| achilles wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| ...... And the reason it is worth debating is that after 104 years our country's national ski club has only mustered less than 2% of the market... that's called failure. |
Er, no it's not. At the AGM I went to some members did no want the Club to grow quickly, if at all. It's a legitimate viewpoint. A club is run to fulfil the wishes of its membership, not for the outright growth that a fully commercial operation would be after. |
Why the membership drives at all the ski shows, attending all the on-snow events around the alps, reps targetted to sign people up, magazine promos, lamb-guzzling sign-written Saabs etc etc ad infinitum. Face it, the club spends a lot of your membership running around trying to sign people up who aren't exactly flocking to fill in the forms. You are now making me laugh. |
It's common practice for clubs such as the ski club to promote themselves. You're hilarious.
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[quote="PJSki"]
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| ...... And the reason it is worth debating is that after 104 years our country's national ski club has only mustered less than 2% of the market... that's called failure. |
Er, no it's not. At the AGM I went to some members did no want the Club to grow quickly, if at all. It's a legitimate viewpoint. A club is run to fulfil the wishes of its membership, not for the outright growth that a fully commercial operation would be after. |
Why the membership drives at all the ski shows, attending all the on-snow events around the alps, reps targetted to sign people up, magazine promos, lamb-guzzling sign-written Saabs etc etc ad infinitum. Face it, the club spends a lot of your membership running around trying to sign people up who aren't exactly flocking to fill in the forms. You are now making me laugh. |
It's common practice for clubs such as the ski club to promote themselves. You're hilarious. |
Why promote if you don't want to get bigger FFS? The fact is that all that promo activity doesn't actually work for them. That means the product is wrong. How would you know what hilarious is?
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