 Poster: A snowHead
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@bar shaker, thanks - that is all really helpful
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dr John wrote: |
@bar shaker,
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We understand the risks and we are insured for skiing off piste without a guide.
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Never the less, any level of insurance is null and void on a closed piste, unless you can prove that you entered the closed piste from off-piste, which it doesn't sound like you did. Like you I'm fully kitted up and avi aware, tour far back country frequently and gone down all the couloirs, but ducking the rope to ski a closed piste is a big fat no no under any circumstances. |
It's an interesting point that I hadn't considered. I would normally agree that a closed piste is out of bounds, but when 2/3rds of the pistes have yet to open I consider them to be unopened (so off-piste) rather than closed.
We were joining both closed pistes (Piste S and Rhone Alpes) from off piste (off both sides of Plan M) but on Saturday Plan M was also closed and the only way to access it was past the rope just after the Solais gondola.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@bar shaker, as you know it's all about risk assessment. I've seen people ducking the rope & cross the bridge to go down a closed triffolet, which is a suicide attempt if ever there was one. At the top of OK/Orange you have the risk of a slide hitting from Spatule above, but below that it's relatively (emphasise the relatively) safe. Agree that the temptation of lapping untracked trees down there is strong, but personally I apply the worst case scenario & consider closed pistes to be out of bounds. Also my better half would slaughter me if she ever found out.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| @bar shaker, as you know it's all about risk assessment. I've seen people ducking the rope & cross the bridge to go down a closed triffolet, which is a suicide attempt if ever there was one. At the top of OK/Orange you have the risk of a slide hitting from Spatule above, but below that it's relatively (emphasise the relatively) safe. Agree that the temptation of lapping untracked trees down there is strong, but personally I apply the worst case scenario & consider closed pistes to be out of bounds. Also my better half would slaughter me if she ever found out. |
Totally!
Triffolet is an interesting one and somewhere I haven't been for years. It's either an unpisted mogul fest or an avi waiting to happen. If you saw our car park last year, there is no way you would go near it when it's closed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@jean claude mont blanc, I think you miss understand the nature of the Espace Killy opening. The resort opens gradually, with more and more pistes opening around this time, as they get enough snow. Plan M and the two blacks had not opened, because there was not enough snow to ski to the end of them... before the snow of last weekend. Part of this reason was that the snow cannons at the bottom have had their water feed damaged and they needed a significant dump of snow to open. To show this, although I ducked under the rope of Plan M on Saturday, before the storm really hit, on Monday when the resort re-opened Plan M was opened for the first time this season. The two black runs both re-join Plan M further down.
The deaths you link to were at a well known risk area and that piste is often closed for avalanche risk reason. The risk is from the snow on the top of the Signal d'Iseran cliffs, near the piste, not from the area beside the piste. You would never see it coming.
The father and daughter killed were with the mother, who was behind them and missed the avalanche. At the time it was reported that the mother had asked if they could take that piste, not knowing the risks. The family were not carrying any safety equipment and the mother said they didn't intend to be off piste. It was a tragic event, but not the same as what I chose to do.
If you aren't happy with the risks, or aren't in a position to assess them, stay on open pistes.
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I guess it's probably best to ask the piste patrol and lift company what they think ,after a chat with your insurance provider.
Snowornever is right ,I'm off to pee up a wall
I'm 6' 4 " will be standing on a box and wearing platform boots , I have been drinking tea all day and have built up a huge pressure so will post results if anyone is interested
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oh ...before I have a wee, this might keep things rolling on
From Dogtag website
It is your responsibility to ensure that on any particular day you are aware of and obey local advice, information and instructions given by the resort authorities and that you obey any signs and information you encounter on the mountain - the source of this information will vary resort to resort and country to country and it is your responsibility to find out. If a section is marked 'closed' there will be a very good reason for it (e.g. high avalanche danger) and ignoring such signs or advice may invalidate your cover. You should be aware that under the terms of cover, needless self-exposure to peril except in an endeavour to save human life may invalidate your cover
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@bar shaker,
As Dr John says a closed piste is NOT off piste.
A closed piste is deemed to be unsafe by the authorities, I doubt if there is an insurance company who would cover you on a closed piste.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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last year we skied down the laughingly classed blue run piste L or should that be piste hell. it was an icy mogul field and not very wide, because it was a blue run people quite rightly thought it was an easy run home, but when we skied down it it was just a sea of bodies sliding wildly out of control, we consequently heard that 10 people had broken bones in an half hour period, when we went around again the ropes were up and the piste was closed, if a blue run skier decided to duck under that rope he would have been in serious trouble.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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He he, I remember taking my kids down Piste L back in 2000, they were 8 and 6. We had done Trolles and Santons the day before. They loved it!
Local knowledge helps a lot...
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| welshflyer wrote: |
| A closed piste MAY HAVE BEEN deemed to be unsafe by the authorities, I doubt if there is an insurance company who would cover you on a closed piste. |
| jean claude mont blanc wrote: |
| ignoring such signs or advice MAY invalidate your cover. |
The dogtag advice says (I paraphrase) "if you get caught in an avalanche off piste you may have failed to obey local advice so your cover may have been invalidated". You don't have to be on a closed piste to invalidate your insurance through stupidity/ignorance/"needless self-exposure to peril".
But frankly, who cares about insurance when off piste - it's a red herring. All that matters is whether or not you are alive, not whether or not they will pay to rescue your dead body. You can always pay for rescue if your insurance company decides they didn't cover you. Yes, I know it might be "somewhat" expensive, but you could pay for it. What you can't pay for is a return ticket from being dead, which is why it isn't the insurance that should be stopping you from going off piste/under the rope.
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You know it makes sense.
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I managed to pee nearly up to the ceiling. Slightly higher than normal ceiling height so approximately 2.6 meters high ,how did you get on
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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So, just be ready to drag yourself off the closed piste onto the off piste and await rescue?
Unless buried of course!
As James comments no substitute for the right skill set for assessing risk and training and a good chunk of luck
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Steve Angus, thanks Steve- quite relieved for the thread to return to normal service! 
So nice that you and Clair has some rare time together.
Looking forward to seeing you in January. Have a great Christmas with the kids.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not out again for another 10 days so I’m browsing the webcams. Great to see the La Daille fence nearly buried. 10 days ago, there was only a dusting on the ground and you couldn’t even ski to the Folie.
Looking like another great season in Val.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lots of snow today out there but it is disappointingly heavy when we've been off piste. Surprising. Any tips of where to find lighter snow Steve?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@nemesys, good luck getting Secret Stash tips from an instructor
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nemesys - ha ha... as I wasnt up there today so can't say for certain but I would have thought its as simple as higher is better but who knows exactly! Ill try to get a better idea tomorrow!
A nice little top up
It wasnt the best nights sleep as this was mainly due to the noise from the students that arrived to stay in our block last night but in my experience after the first night or two things settle down quite nicely - lets hope that is the case tonight onwards!
Anyway we woke to about 30cm of fresh snow here in town and very little wind so it would be a good day up the mountain. It was all action stations as we had to get Olivia to her ski lesson (with the Club des Sports in the pipeline one day for Olivia she is being shaped towards that so she is with the ESF a fair few times this Winter!) and Clare was starting work at the same time - this means that everyone has to get ready and head to the meeting front - it is quite a job! Anyway with Olivia off out on her lesson I took Ben for a swim... however when I got to the pool (and it was busy being a poor weather day!) it turned out that Ben was fast asleep which wasnt quite what I had planned... so I sat it out for a while until he woke up!
Anyway it was a fun swim with him before the long job to get him dressed (well both of us) and outside again to collect Olivia - all rather a lot of work for not much but thats the way it goes.
After lunch at home I was relieved that both kids took long sleeps - yay... that just about gave me time to catch up on a few things.
By the time Clare got in from work I was rather exhausted but thats the way it goes... the main thing from the day was that Olivia did so well in her lesson and enjoyed it... she is now all set for a week of lessons when the school holidays start!
I totally forgot to get any photos from today BUT I did another nice photo from last night so I will post that.
Tomorrow I am on my snowboard all day teaching... however I am also getting Ben to and from creche before and after work so that will be another job to do!
There might be some more snow overnight and then during tomorrow so it could be an interesting day on the slopes.... time will tell!
TTFN
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Steve Angus wrote: |
It wasnt the best nights sleep as this was mainly due to the noise from the students that arrived to stay in our block last night but in my experience after the first night or two things settle down quite nicely - lets hope that is the case tonight onwards!
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Rather the same problem here in my apartment in Les Arcs, in a building which does a good job of amplifying communal noise. The authorities do their best but students on a first night away do tend to let their hair down a bit, something which most of us should remember and understand from our own student days. Even the building's website notes (Google translation):
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| The residence is frequented by all age groups, and especially young people (teenagers or young adults), whether they come in a family apartment, rented directly or in a group by a tour operator. To make old skiers, there must be young skiers. Who says ski says after ski, and it is in this activity, and in the hours of this activity that the cohabitation can pose difficulties in the residence. |
Someone in this building is clearly trying to keep things under control - I found students whispering to each other in the corridors on their second night last year 
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@Steve Angus, love the teddy bear! We saw it being delivered last weekend and I wondered what the theme would be this year.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Steve, does anyone run small group snowboard clinics on Sunday - Tues? I'm looking for my brother.
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Fantastic up there yesterday and today (better vis today). Maybe you can explain Steve - or maybe someone else. Sunday there was a lot of snow but it was quite heavy everywhere - heavy like wind blown "sugar" type heavy rather than wet heavy. Sunday night there was a bit more snow (10cm or so I would guess) but the snow quality off piste had improved dramatically yesterday. How is that possible???
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You know it makes sense.
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the snow quality off piste had improved dramatically yesterday. How is that possible??
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It was a good clear night last night and the general recent overnight temps have been dropping quite low. At around 23:00 it had dropped to -8c at the bottom of the Solaise and so much colder up top. The low temps will have helped 'dry out' the snow and improve the quality.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Steve Angus, I'm out in EK in a few weeks. Keep the reports coming - they bring back memories of when my kids were small and their horrendous sleeping patterns (or should that be waking patterns?)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks Steve - interesting. The science behind that one is interesting. Without doubt the transformation was impressive.
Not managed to run in to you yet but Nick (partner in crime) had a brief chat with Clare today - partly about Le Garage. Went this evening and was very impressed. I like the feel of the place.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Steve Angus, Hi Steve, my son is out in Val for the season and noticed your comments about the seasonnaires ski school sign up. He is an experienced skier - just wondering if the sign-up is aimed at beginners only, or does it include for example off-piste guided sessions?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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nemesys - yes Clare mentioned that she had been chatting! Yes the Garage I like it a lot - rather like the sort of apres style place you get in north american resorts IMO!
BKK - welcome to SH's... AFA the seasonnaires program is concerned.... far from being aimed at beginners (we only get a few to those) it is generally aimed at those wanting to fulfil their ambitions of which of piste sessions are one of the most popular... we have people who have done many seasons in Val signing up for the sessions. So most definitely there will be a group that fits his requirements... tell him to either drop me a line on here, pop into our office in Snowberry (Slopeside) or visit the www.tdcski.com website and contact us that way. He should do it sooner rather than later as we are going to finalise the groups in the next week or so!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Held at bay
A pretty good nights sleep was welcome all round... and being a Wednesday the heat was off a little as we dont need to get Olivia onto the school bus for 8am! Nevertheless she was off to the Jardins des Enfants as both Clare and I were out working and we needed to get Ben to creche either way!
So after the usual chaotic start it was to the meeting point and meet the team. The plan for the session was carving and we also had a shadower along to observe the lesson... Anyway the weather had been seeming as if it were going to really move in - the clouds were thickening all the time and it was weird as suddenly it actually got better the weather! Anyway we initially did laps on the Grand Pre working on our carving before it got too busy there... we then switched it up and spent some time on the Diebold. It turned into a productive and fun session with everyone taking away something to work on.
I collected Olivia and took her home for lunch and then she had a sleep whilst I did some jobs. As Clare got in from skiing we had some of her friends around for a cuppa and the chaos really began as they have a youngster too so between our two and their one the house was turned upside down! Its only the last hour or so having had dinner that we have managed to get the house ship shape again... and you guessed it I am really rather tired now!
As the afternoon progressed the weather finally decided to make its move and we have had an almighty snowstorm for the last couple of hours but it once again seems to have eased off but I suspect it will be enough for a nice fresh canvas for tomorrow!
I am teaching tomorrow morning and then in the afternoon I need to head down the valley to do a huge food shop that will see us through Xmas and the New Year!
I seemed to forget about getting any photos today until it was almost too late (woops) so I got a photo from our balcony when the snowstorm was in full swing!
Until tomorrow...
TTFN
Being a Wednesday can you see the huge queue for the bus after the Folie kicked out!
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@Steve Angus, thanks for the clinic tips. I'll pass them on.
Yesterday (Weds) was the opening afternoon for the Folie's WTF/Superhero themed party afternoons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| welshflyer wrote: |
@bar shaker,
As Dr John says a closed piste is NOT off piste.
A closed piste is deemed to be unsafe by the authorities, I doubt if there is an insurance company who would cover you on a closed piste. |
I agree that a closed piste is not technically off piste, however I think that pistes are not always closed only for safety reasons. It may be that they have not had time to prepare them and an unpisted piste can be a nightmare for some less experienced skiers. It might also be that a lift to get out at the bottom might not be working for example.
Last week in a wonderful week in Val we skied the unpisted OK/Orange runs with a guide although the piste was closed and had great fresh snow all the way down. My insurance covers me for off piste without a guide however in all honesty I have no idea how my insurer would react if I had had an accident.
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@richjp, Not sure, were there piste poles by the side. If not it is not a piste under the French rules (just a line on a map).
I spoke to an off piste instructor, I know well. If he is instructing a group he will not go on a closed piste as he would be deemed negligent if there was an incident. If there is an incident off piste he will be judged on the merits of the individual case, taking into account local knowledge, conditions etc, his peer group of instructors would be consulted.
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FAQ
I did a clinic with Steve a few years ago - credit probably run out 
