 Poster: A snowHead
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BBC Watchdog can be emailed here watchdogwebteam@bbc.co.uk
I've also contacted the company which hosts Skiing Europe (host4u) asking whether they wish to continue to be associated with SE. Their terms and conditions allow them to pull the plug on companies which are seeking to enter into voluntary arrangements with their creditors.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The skiing europe/Chris Reynard totaliser now stands at:
February Half Term
Reading Grammar School - 100 children - £90,000 (www.getreading.co.uk)
Tavistock College - 120 children - £90,000 (BBC News)
Tonbridge Grammar School - 33 children - c£27,000? (www.thisiskent.co.uk)
Easter Hols
Meole Brace School - 38 children - £41,000 (www.shropshirestar.com)
Mount Grace School - c120 children? - c£90,000? (this thread)
Beechwood Park School - c38 children? - c£35,000? (this thread)
Purbeck - 42 children - £33,600 (BBC News)
Ferndown - c28 children? - c£22,400 (BBC News/This thread)
Then factor in unpaid staff, coach companies, lift passes, ski hire & hotels from the trips that did get away.
Approx (at least) £419,000 and counting...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just emailed News of the World talkback@the-sun.co.uk<talkback>;
and pointed them to this thread, they like a good scandal, also suggested they may wish to start a rescue our hols campaign!!! will do same with Times Travel section
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| leedsunited wrote: |
Just emailed News of the World talkback@the-sun.co.uk<talkback>;
and pointed them to this thread, they like a good scandal, also suggested they may wish to start a rescue our hols campaign!!! will do same with Times Travel section |
Well done.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 6-06-11 8:50; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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leedsunited, I've done them aswell now
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Good work! Amazing what an inspired forum can do 
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Good work guys! 
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Listen to Radio 4 You and Yours on Friday April 8 at noon - it's about Skiing Europe and all the cancelled holidays.
Daily Mirror consumer journalist is also aware and working on something apparently . . .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just heard about this on 5 Live news. It's great this is finally getting some airtime
Edit: the reporter said 15 schools were affected over the Easter holidays. Would it help Google to find this thread if the title was changed to Skiing-Europe or skiing-europe.com ?
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Kb, Phil_D, 
Phil_D, great idea for the heading, putting skiing-europe.com in I would say
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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While you're at it, might as well add "Chris Reynard" to the thread title, if there is room.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-12995853
Update on the latest cancellations. Reynard is now blaming the schools saying they were in arrears...don't believe that for a second. Until recently I was a tour organiser for one of their rivals and schools pretty much pay on time. Needless to say both schools have denied.
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Made third or fourth billing on BBC South evening news (18.30) tonight - with a reference to the Radio 4 talk tomorrow. Still not a lot of interest nationally although the spread of schools affected this time around is much wider.
Unfortunately the knock on effect could well be fewer schools travelling in the future, as teachers will become reluctant to take the risk. As someone who organised trips for well over 30 years for schools, youth groups and adults (all starting from the one school ski trip) I feel saddened that so many people possibly will miss out on getting a taste of the sport that fascinates so many of us. we survived the domino effect that the collapse of some of the well-known school companies at the end of the 80s because we we're experienced, quick off the mark and knew what we wanted. Others were not so lucky then. This reminds me of that period to a degree.
The last few trips I organised, I did by contracting all the elements myself. We had got to know reliable coach companies, had excellent contacts with a resort that helped us to negotiate good rates for our hotel, ski school and ski hire. The father of one of my stalwarts worked in insurance and made sure we had the best cover available at an affordable price. That was back in the mid 1990s, I feel that with all the legislation and "guidelines" binding teachers hand and foot these days, shysters like Reynard are just waiting to take the money and run. In the long run it is the youngsters that miss out and the reputation of skiing as a "sport for all" no longer applies. 
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You know it makes sense.
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OK, I've just had a call from a friend who has heard from an instructor currently in Interlaken and who was expecting to work next week. The news is:
1. All 17 schools due to be there next week have cancelled and all the instructors have "the week off"! This is obviously 12 or so more schools travelling at Easter than we knew about before.
2. According to senior staff in resort, Chris Reynard has "walked away" from Skiing Europe. I find this a bit odd as he is Skiing Europe. Having said that, knowing what we know about him, I wouldn't put it past him to try!
If I hear any more I'll let you know.
Message Ends!!!!! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It's also currently top story on BBC ceefax England news for 'South' region, and is also on the 'South West' section. Shame there was nothing on 'Watchdog', an hour of which I endured tonight...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| smithski wrote: |
| While you're at it, might as well add "Chris Reynard" to the thread title, if there is room. |
To change the title I think you'll need to ask a moderator, or the person who started the thread (but I'm not sure he/she has stuck around).
Interesting reading this thread. Well done to those of you who are trying to bring attention to this.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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wigan, yes, the message was aimed at a mod, who almost certainly will be keeping a close eye on this thread.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spiky1013, he's still there under the "about" tab
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Per Reynard at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-12995853
On the issue of previously being banned from acting as a company director, Mr Reynard said in a statement: "On the director's issue, this was largely thrown out on appeal.
"An expert witness had said that there was no case to answer.
"I subsequently won a second appeal, and am currently pursuing the judge concerned through the European Court."
What Reynard means by largely thrown out on appeal is that the period of disqualification was reduced from 10 years to 5 years - i.e you were still guilty of the offence.
And since the appeal was back in c2001 he doesn't seem to have got very far in pursuing the judge in the first case does he. And my guess is that if anything then subsequent events will strengthen what the judge said about Reynard in the first case.
As for the the schools being in arrears - some one is not telling the truth and is slandering the other party - I know who my money is on (well actaully he has my money and I'd like it back).
Has any one of Mr Reynard's many creditors ever had the courtesy of a reply to any email that they may have sent to Skiing Europe?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bode Swiller, Thanks for the heads up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Very telling that the Independent article is in the "Crime" section and not Travel or other ... brings home the seriousness of this situation
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The original allegations for which Reynard was disqualified for 10 years.
Mr Reynard faced allegations of misconduct in the proceedings instituted against him by the Secretary of State under the 1986 Act on 14 January 1998: trading from April 1995 whilst insolvent at the risk of creditors; failing to provide holidays paid for in advance; misusing the company’s money in payment of personal expenses and personal tax liabilities; misappropriating a company car (a Citroen); acting in breach of fiduciary duty to Howglen in paying salary to his estranged wife, in arranging for the company to make an interest free unsecured loan to a charitable company (Adventures for Life Limited) of which he was sole director and to another associated company (Multi-Activity Training Unit Limited) and in agreeing for the company to pay 15 % interest on a secured loan of £300,000 by him to the company; drawing excessive remuneration before the administrative receivership; failing to make deductions for PAYE and NIC; failing to keep adequate accounting records; breaching the trading standards legislation regarding the contents of the holiday brochure; breaching health and safety requirements regarding fire precautions; failing to co-operate with the administrative receivers with respect to the statement of affairs and the recovery of the Citroen car; and late filing of accounts and returns of two other companies.
What the judge found on appeal by Reynard
On the appeal from the decision of the Registrar Blackburne J held that the Registrar was correct to find that unfitness was established, saying that there were ample grounds for that conclusion. He held, however, that the Registrar’s exercise of discretion in fixing the period of disqualification at ten years was open to review, as he had taken into account as misconduct matters which should either have not been considered at all or which did not amount to misconduct. He was therefore entitled to exercise the discretion afresh and, in doing so, he stated that he had no doubt that the period of ten years was altogether excessive. He substituted the period of 5 ½ years as the appropriate period. In fixing that period he did not take into account the Registrar’s finding that Mr Reynard was “a most unsatisfactory witness
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Per You and Yours I think what the AiTO spokeslady said was quite promising - i.e. once Reynard is forced into bankruptcy then the Insurance Company will need to pay up if the schools can demonstrate that he was in breach of the package holdiay regulations. Since the tour operator is required to offer the end consumer a full refund if they make a signifcant change to the holiday arrangements (i.e. change the resort, means of transport, ask for additional payments etc ) and to give forwarding addresses for any under 16s under the Regulations this shouldn't be too difficult to demonstrate.
I should think that there are quite a few claims for refunds against Reynard already so bankruptcy should not be too far away.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I caught a bit of the R4 broadcast - interesting that Reynard's apparent list of woes to schools included industrial sabotage. Item seemed to talk about a limited company being pursued but sounded like everything was in a no-man's limbo land. No mention of Lyme Bay or LA vetting procedures unless at the start of the piece?
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There are 3 simple checks school trip organisers and LEA's can do to ensure the operator they are booking with is reputable, that the safety of the party is paramount, and that their monies will be safe -
1) If the package involves flights, the operator should have an ATOL licence issued by the Civil Aviation Authority.
2) If the operator is a member of either ABTA (the Association of British Travel Agents) or AITO (the Association of Independent Tour Operators), then both insist on a level of financial security and professional conduct from their members. Interestingly, Skiing Europe is said to have resigned from AITO before these events escalated.
3) The School Travel Forum - www.schooltravelforum.com - has been set-up by Britain's school trip organisers to ensure a consistent level of service, safety and security across all of its members.
So don't be afraid to ask about your operator's accreditations before booking your next school trip.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Fri 8-04-11 14:39; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Industrial sabotage? So that was what stopped you paying all those hotels and coach companies with the money you received in advance was it Chris?? Looks like the pressure is starting to get to him doesn't it? Is he taking advice from anyone at all?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| schoolskiexpert wrote: |
.
2) If the operator is a member of either ABTA (the Association of British Travel Agents) or AITO (the Association of Independent Tour Operators), then both insist on a level of financial security and professional conduct from their members. Interestingly, Skiing Europe is said to have resigned from AITO before these events escalated.
.Any reputable school trips operator will adhere to these 3 points above, so don't be afraid to ask about your operator's accreditations before booking your next school trip. |
Welcome skitripexpert.
Before Chris Reynard I would of had faith in AiTo and taken a firm's guidance at face value - not now. AiTo's response to me weeks in to this sorry mess demonstrates they still believed Reynard upheld their standards in all regards and he had nothing to answer. In fact they were quite bullish in their comeback that makes them look even more foolish in light of the facts now exposed. AiTo are shown to be toothless and do not uphold their own standards of conduct to those in need and £875 out of pocket.
BBC radio 4 is now available to listen again. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b0100j8y Starts at 1.45 minutes in.
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Poster: A snowHead
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AiTo start coming in at 15.50 minutes. on the Radio 4 listen again.
Aito spokeswoman; "no school should lose money" "We are not washing our hands of this situation".
Nice words but AiTo lack action or results.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
3) The School Travel Forum - www.schooltravelforum.com - has been set-up by Britain's school trip organisers to ensure a consistent level of service, safety and security across all of its members.
Any reputable school trips operator will adhere to these 3 points above, |
Whilst I do think that the STF is a good thing for the industry I have to disagree with you here a some extent. I have worked for 5 school ski travel providers in various roles. In my opinion, the best 2 of the 5 that I have worked for are not a member of the STF. They have by far the best service levels, expertise and support system in resort.
The STF is not a compulsory membership organisation, purely voluntary, which is great and does show that its members are happy to comply "to a rigorous Code of Practice and Safety Management Standards" but to say that those who are not members are not 'reputable' is a little misleading and borderline libelous.
I would go as far as to say that the last company that I worked for who were STF members would be the last company I would book with as they knew very little about the sport and how things run in a resort. The total amount of ski experience in the department looking after snowsports was 2 half days!
ABTA, IATA, AITO membership all have value and will benefit those losing their holidays in circumstances like those this thread relates to.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Basoid - no misleading intended, so I've amended my comment. You've correctly pointed out the importance of Safety Management standards and other accreditations, which will hopefully help forum members be guided when choosing which ski trip operators to travel with in the future.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| schoolskiexpert wrote: |
| Basoid - no misleading intended, so I've amended my comment. You've correctly pointed out the importance of Safety Management standards and other accreditations, which will hopefully help forum members be guided when choosing which ski trip operators in the future. |
Thanks schoolskiexpert.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The skiing europe/Chris Reynard totaliser now stands at:
February Half Term
Reading Grammar School - 100 children - £90,000 (www.getreading.co.uk)
Tavistock College - 120 children - £90,000 (BBC News)
Tonbridge Grammar School - 33 children - c£27,000? (www.thisiskent.co.uk)
Easter Hols
Meole Brace School - 38 children - £41,000 (www.shropshirestar.com)
Mount Grace School - c120 children? - c£90,000? (this thread)
Beechwood Park School - 45 children - c£25,000? (BBC you & Yours)
Purbeck - 42 children - £33,600 (BBC News)
Ferndown - c28 children? - c£22,400 (BBC News/This thread)
Kingsmead - ? children - £41,000 (BBC You & Yours)
Plus 4? more schools due to go at Easter (BBC You & Yours)
Then factor in unpaid staff, coach companies, lift passes, ski hire & hotels from the trips that did get away.
Approx (at least) £450,000 and counting.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| Approx (at least) £450,000 and counting |
If my info is correct, and I suspect it 100% accurate as its from the horses mouth, with the other schools we haven't heard about yet I reckon its closer to £1m.
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Suday Times Travel section now made aware of this thread, 'travel@thetimes.co.uk' can we get others to also mail them, the more people inundate them with this story the more chance of them publishing.
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Add to the "didn't go Skiing" for Easter (departure due 2nd April) are Girvan Academy & Salisbury Cathedral = 1 coach to St Anton. Both did not depart due to no fault of their own.
1 of the 4 trips from last week actually went. No schools have left this week (from an inside source)
from an Ex SE resort staff member (of 12 years) still waiting for money!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It looks like it is important to keep up the pressure on AiTO so that they continue to work to clear up this stain on their industry.
The SE staff/instructors concerned should be providing any evidence they have of fraudulent trading to Trading Standards.
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| Quote: |
| BBC radio 4 is now available to listen again. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b0100j8y Starts at 1.45 minutes in. |
Really worth listening to. Sounds like someone has to precipitate bankruptcy of SE (which presumably means CR himself) and then it might be insured.
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FAQ
