 Poster: A snowHead
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@SnoodyMcFlude, pole tapping is just a sign of other, more dangerous, radicalisation.
If its a filled croissant it weighs more so one has to be careful.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I am an experienced skier. I HATE it when someone comes up beside me unexpectedly on a cat track. I don't care if they are polite, or racing, or arrogant, or deferential: that sudden shock (if I'm taking in the scenery, or my mind has wandered, and at my advancing years that happens...) can be 'kin dangerous. Now we are all helmet wearers, it's not just boarders who have blind spots.
So since I don't like it when people sneak up on me, I have , over the years, chosen to gently pole tap from some distance away to alert people to my presence. I may not even want to overtake them I just want them to know I'm there.
Now. I accept reading this thread that there will be some who react badly to that. But on balance, and since it is my personal preference to be aware of other slope users so I can respect them (  ), I'm think I'm going to continue doing it.
So bleah.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And I don't want to know someone is there
So I'm going to continue thinking there's an impatient idiot behind trying to force me to do something. I won't.
So Ner!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have been a tapper in the past, I have also been a tappee......... and I apologise to those who don't like it, but it works for me either when giving, or receiving !
What's the concensus on bells on a bicycle ? Same concept innit ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Now we are all helmet wearers
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 I don't wear one. Do they make you deaf? Do they make you less aware of what's going on around you? It sounds like it. Pole manufacturers may need to think about tuning the sound so that the tapping is on a different wavelength to the edge scraping and general screaming. What a bunch of utter utter nonsense.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
What's the concensus on bells on a bicycle ?
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There are rules of the road. If someone bells you, you know which side to move over to. Passing is safer. On a ski slope there is no such protocol.
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do you mean as a cyclist or a pedestrian ? I'm not sure I know what these rules are.......
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More like using a bell on a bicycle to say "I'm not coming past, but just letting you know I'm going to sit on your tail, so don't brake or stop suddenly" ? (at least that seems to be the meaning of one of the self proclaimed tappers).
Don't sneak up on me. I won't sneak up on you. That makes life a bit easier for all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Timberwolf, I was thinking of other cyclists. The bikes shouldn't be on the pavement. TBH though, safe operation of a bike shouldn't need any pinging or ringing.
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@Pruman, many pavements are dual use, pedestrians and cyclists. I think it's a fair analogy to compare this with a narrow piste, the main difference being the direction of travel. I see no problem at all with the polite use of a bell, pole tap, 'excuse me' in these instances. On a narrow piste I'd probably slow down and wait a fair distance behind until a suitable overtaking opportunity comes up, then alert and pass.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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How do you propose to make all this tapping and ringing and shouting accessible to the deaf and hard of hearing?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
The bikes shouldn't be on the pavement
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Depends. Plenty of shared use paths where it's not obvious which side is bikes/peds. Round here there's plenty of forest trails that are usable by anyone. That's the only place I've been told off by someone for not using my bell... as they took their iPod headphones out of their ears.
I'll make sure to ring my bell and continue to ride behind the walkers, joggers etc. next time
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@Pruman,
it does sometimes restrict peripheral vision. Especially when you are facing straight forward along a cat-track, enjoying the sun, musing over which anecdotes and wittisims to share in the bar that night, and looking at the potential obstacles far front, rather than behind. A gentle noise brings you back to the here and now, and reminds you that you are sharing this great sport of ours with others.
My singing, as some have suggested, is probably not a good option - no-one wants that (They really don't).
Bells... jury is out I fear. See shared bike / pedestrian trails for many examples of surprise movements. I always unclip and slow down when approaching a group, I always ring the bell, and I always thank them if they stop, consider the bike, and move to one side, while collaring the dog... Admittedly significantly easier to do as a pedestrian than skier.
But with more walkers / runners wearing ear-buds it is sometimes very difficult to get them to notice you from a distance; hence the pre-cautionary steps of having the feet available and reduced speed.
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You know it makes sense.
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| andy wrote: |
| Don't sneak up on me. I won't sneak up on you. That makes life a bit easier for all. |
Agreed. I'll tell you what, so that I don't sneak up on you I'll give you a gentle audible warning when I'm approaching.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Where can I find the main "pole-tapping" and campanology threads please?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@SnoodyMcFlude, better still. Don't come close enough that you feel you need to
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Grinning, 
See you on the hill folks....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@SnoodyMcFlude, I'm sure you can work out what a safe distance is behind, or a safe distance to one side if you are going to pass I don't care what speed you choose, so long as you leave me space, and can react to me changing what I am doing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| andy wrote: |
| I don't care what speed you choose, so long as you leave me space, and can react to me changing what I am doing. |
So, after all that fuss, you don't want me to behave any differently to how I already do?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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An old schoolteacher of mine that used to be in the ski club, was... erm... lets be nice and call him 'eccentric'. He used to have little cowbells attached to the strap of his pole. He could be heard jingling and jangling all over the place. You, should have seen the crazy looks he got from everyone else at cairngorm. Needless to say, no one wanted to be in his group.
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| Quote: |
What's the concensus on bells on a bicycle ? Same concept innit ?
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I don't use a bell either. When I'm on a shared use path (which is seldom) I might resort to a polite "excuse me" if a group of pedestrians don't seem aware that I'm there and are blocking the route but I'll slow down and hover a bit behind them first. Otherwise the only other time I see the point is when a pedestrian suddenly makes a sharp turn and steps off the pavement onto the road without looking but then I resort to a shout, generally "watch it!" which is quicker and louder than reaching for a bell. In general though I tend to ride on the basis that pedestrians WILL do these foolish things from time to time and give anyone standing near the edge of the pavement a wide berth.
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I use a bell on my bike. Very useful but needs to be used far enough away not to startle and to allow for the reaction.
When lane swimmer the etiquette is to tap feet to pass.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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how about a bell on a ski pole, personally i"m so concentrated on skiing i wouldnt hear a herd of elephants coming up behind me
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| Layne wrote: |
I use a bell on my bike. Very useful but needs to be used far enough away not to startle and to allow for the reaction.
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Sounds like you are a great cyclist. I frequently walk on a shared path and a bell sounding from a distance is just what I want. I have no problem moving to one side to let a cyclist through, however if I do it would be nice if they slowed down, and didn't pass within an inch of me showering me with mud.... Too often cyclists think we should magically disappear, a bit like entitled skiers...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Pedestrians and stepping off the kerb into path of bikes is another thing - part of the wilfull ignorance that goes on "I can't hear a car so I'm safe" or "I glanced and didn't see a big car so I'm safe". To be honest I think the "tap deniers" who do not want to know if other people are behind them are kinda hoping to live in that "I'm alright Jack" bubble; I'd contend it's not the tappers who are their real threat it's those who are travelling too fast or recklessly to consider if a tap might be a good idea.
Plus I'd say it's all well and good to consider that your rights under the FIS code protect you but they don't really : you can live a virtuous life never breaching a single item and even your imaginary items like "No tapping" and still end up in the ER. That's where situational awareness and self protection comes in - how many people always stop on piste at the side with a clear view uphill? How many members of a group (including (or maybe especially) ski school classes) look uphill before individually setting off? How often do you ski fast in a gang with your own group?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yodelling is the way forward
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So what's the etiquette then? 2 taps - passing on left, 3 taps - passing on right, 4 taps - i've come right up your jacksie, so don't do anything rash, 5+ taps - stop being a dick blocking everyone?
Seems so far that one taps like a bike bell to say coming past, one taps but isn't going to pass, and one taps but will stay either well back or will pass with so much space that the tap is not necessary either way.
Tap away all you like. Just don't expect that my interpretation is the same as your intention. Until someone comes up with a formalised etiquette.
As you say though, it's those that just barge past that are the major concern. Funnily enough they're the ones that go "on yer left, mate!" as they suddenly realise that the gap between me and the edge has narrowed beyond the point where they can react. Impressed that they know my nationality. Must be the skiing style.
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You know it makes sense.
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....there are other nationality clues - wearing orange and looking like a tit...?
Excessive rucksack....Brit, looking like gangsta rapper on skis ...probably French, Mullet ...German or Austrian
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| andy wrote: |
| As you say though, it's those that just barge past that are the major concern. Funnily enough they're the ones that go "on yer left, mate!" as they suddenly realise that the gap between me and the edge has narrowed beyond the point where they can react. Impressed that they know my nationality. Must be the skiing style. |
True story. Although the one I had of "ACHTUNG!!" suggests that it's not a Brit only thing.
3 taps is "I'm reversing" isn't it?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bunny or other animal onesie... Dutch.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Actually that's quite a good idea for commuting given the number of pavement ditherers for whom walking isn't enough and they need to dawdle writing texts or emails at the same time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, ah, you own all the pavements do you? Perhaps there should be three lanes like on a motorway, the fatter and slower moving traffic in the left lane etc. But then you'd just get the centre lane owners club.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Pruman wrote: |
| How do you propose to make all this tapping and ringing and shouting accessible to the deaf and hard of hearing? |
You stick your pole through their legs and "tap" them in the nuts
This works in all languages
| compostcorner wrote: |
| how about a bell on a ski pole |
That would be great, because in the marketing material where everything has a snazzy technical name, they could refer to it as the "bell end"
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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People attempt far riskier overtaking moves when there is a missed train at stake than they ever do on skis.
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I still don't get this debate. With the exception of people moving off without looking or entering the piste from the side, the skier ahead of you is 100% your problem. There's no obligation at all for them to do anything to make your life easier. If you cant get past them with a 100% certainty of not hitting them ( even if they do something completely unexpected/ridiculous/stupid ) then don't try. I've skied 1000+ hours and probably overtaken tens of thousands of skiers, and never run into anyone ahead of me. Sure I've had some very annoying crawls down narrow tracks behind slow skiers because I couldn't safely pass. I wait until I can. I don't bang poles or any other crap. There's no grey area here ... If you ski into the back of someone you're an idiot .. its 100% your fault.
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@eblunt, absolutely
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| eblunt wrote: |
| I still don't get this debate. With the exception of people moving off without looking or entering the piste from the side, the skier ahead of you is 100% your problem. There's no obligation at all for them to do anything to make your life easier. |
That's right so end of story? What about those who might want to make life easier for fellow humans or not want to cause a nuisance to others, or perhaps in the interests of personal protection allow a safe passing space so some muppet doesn't use a non-safe (lack of) space? You don't have to be intent on mowing down lickle children to think some of these things are also common sense.
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| dp wrote: |
| Pruman wrote: |
| How do you propose to make all this tapping and ringing and shouting accessible to the deaf and hard of hearing? |
You stick your pole through their legs and "tap" them in the nuts
This works in all languages |
Fantastic, I'll suggest it to FIS, they must have been wondering what to put in there for rule 11. What about the guys on one leg or in sit skis? Just go back to reliable old barging? You must have some creative ways of warning the various religious believers too.
Anyway, I'm surprised nobody has put them up yet:
| Quote: |
Rule 1: Respect for others
A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he does not endanger or prejudice others.
Rule 2: Control of speed and skiing or snowboarding
A skier or snowboarder must move in control. He must adapt his speed and manner of skiing or snowboarding to his personal ability and to the prevailing conditions of terrain, snow and weather as well as to the density of traffic.
Rule 3: Choice of route
A skier or snowboarder coming from behind must choose his route in such a way that he does not endanger skiers or snowboarders ahead.
Rule 4: Overtaking
A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.
Rule 5: Entering, starting and moving upwards
A skier or snowboarder entering a marked run, starting again after stopping or moving upwards on the slopes must look up and down the slopes that he can do so without endangering himself or others.
Rule 6: Stopping on the piste
Unless absolutely necessary, a skier or snowboarder must avoid stopping on the piste in narrow places or where visibility is restricted. After a fall in such a place, a skier or snowboarder must move clear of the piste as soon as possible.
Rule 7: Climbing and descending on foot
A skier or snowboarder either climbing or descending on foot must keep to the side of the piste.
Rule 8: Respect for signs and markings
A skier or snowboarder must respect all signs and markings.
Rule 9: Assistance
At accidents, every skier or snowboarder is duty bound to assist.
Rule 10: Identification
Every skier or snowboarder and witness, whether a responsible party or not, must exchange names and addresses following an accident. |
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FAQ
