thank you everyone for your advice which is much appreciated!
I have ocd i think because I like to have everything planned out to limit the risk - if i know where i am going and what options i have then i wont put myself in as much danger.
I appreciate you cannot see me ski so cannot judge my ability; but one thing i have taken from this thread is that I am not yet able to assess a ski slope and its conditions.
I think i will start off on day one with blues and finish on reds which i am comfortable i am able to ski.
If I feel as though my technique stands up to the challenge of a difficult red and that my sideslipping is adequate then i will venture a black in good conditions.
Mostly, the reason i ask is because I have never seen a black run and therfore cannot imagine the challenge in my head. I thought it wise to ask experienced skiers what to consider/expect to be best prepared.
What ski skills should i work on before i go?
P.S thanks for the welcome - what a great website!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
bezthespaniard, very sensible - the hardest run I have ever boarded down was a 'roller' type blue in Saalbach at 8.30 am in Feb which was frozen solid from top to bottom - much harder than Tortins or Swiss Wall mogul field or any black i have been down !
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Cumulus, Now that you've lost your posting virginity, life will never be the same again. Lurk ye no more. Hope you have a fab time in Feb.
Yeah conditions are key, in perfect conditions a black run might seem a piece of cake, in bad conditions it could be almost impassable even for experienced skiers.
Condition of the slope can be completely different from morning to afternoon, let alone on different days. Generally it will be most icy in the morning before the sun has got on it (can take a long time to soften if the slope is steep and facing away from the sun). By the afternoon a slope that was hard and smooth may have softened and the soft snow pushed up into moguls. As black runs only get groomed every now and then these moguls may still be there the next morning, but this time they will be icy as well! This pattern can go on and on for days with the moguls just getting bigger and harder and very icy in the morning to add to the difficulty.
Again your best bet is to ski with a more experienced skier, and if necessary get them to ski the run while you take a red or blue down, then if they feel it is in good condition and suitable for your ability go back up and come down the black with them as the condition won't have changed much in this time.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
What ski skills should i work on before i go?
you mentioned side-slipping - that would be a good one. Sideslipping on both sides, diagonally, etc etc But like some of the other people who have posted, I would strongly recommend you have a ski lesson on your first day - especially if it is some time since you skied anywhere but a snowdome.
This would be fantastic value in terms of your progression compared with what your spending in the fridge.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Im going with UCPA so lessons are available with them. Exciting!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Does anyone have a good photo which demonstrates what a steep black looks like?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
bezthespaniard, this, covered in car-sized moguls, with the consistency of reinforced concrete, and each with a gibbering person on its summit, is not much fun. At least it wasn't for me. (Oh, and it's Le Tunnel in Alpe d'Huez.)
make sure you have a good insurance cover
good job i m not going to cham this jan
Patronising nonsense like this is a great way to get Snowheads a bad name. The OP asked a reasonable question and deserves a better answer than that. How do you know he's likely to be a danger to himself and others? We all had to start somewhere.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
bezthespaniard wrote:
Does anyone have a good photo which demonstrates what a steep black looks like?
It is very difficult to get an real impression of the steepness in a photograph.
It is also very difficult to generalise about how steep a black is anyhow. Remember "black" covers everything from "just too hard to be a red" up to the very hardest runs that can be pisted.
IF you actually find you can do most reds comfortably, then you are likely to be able to do the easier blacks -and as others have said, in good conditions, some blacks are easier than some reds.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
If you find yourself on any piste with Orange safety netting at the sides of it then that piste should command your respect.
It's there for a good reason.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
This is the Harakiri in Mayrhofen, it claims to be the steepest piste in Austria or is it Europe?? Well it claims to be the steepest something.
But as Alex said, pictures don't really give you a good impression of how steep it actually is.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Leeds_Skier, that's a great shot that really proves the point about conditions being critical when you're first venturing onto expert slopes. With good light and the afternoon sun softening the snow, that run would be awesome. Next morning when the first few skiers have scraped off the corduroy to reveal the previous day's compacted, icy hardpack, you'd need edges like razor blades and nerves of steel to enjoy it. If you tripped at the top, you'd have a pretty terrifying toboggan ride before you came to a standstill.
Personally, though, I think it's a crying shame that anyone should see fit to scrub the moguls off a fine hill like that.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
alex_heney, I've skied some black runs that would be impossible to piste due to the trees.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'm a worse skier than most (if not all responders here) so I'll share my experience.
I've skied 2 full weeks and had 4/5 two or three day trips.
I'm comfortable on most reds and blues, but there are some reds, AND blues I just don't like.
Often it isn't the steepness but the camber, narrowness, width, slushiness, or popularity (ie. just busy!) which can put me off.
Many blues can actually be a hell of a lot worse than reds (one in Samoens springs to mind) hence I'll tend to stick to reds as they are quieter.
I did my first black in the 2009 season. It was very steep (scarily so from the top) but was pisted and not too long. Did I enjoy it? Not particularly (but I did do it again!) and I did get a great sense of achievement from completing it.
Contrast that to this year when I did my first 'proper black'! Not good at all.
We were in Flaine and there was a chair that took us up to the the top of the mountain (the very right hand side for those that know the area). There was a red and black coming down. Or there should have been but the red was closed (handy hint - read signs at the lift base) so we had to go down the black.
It was an un-pisted black about 1.5km - 2km long where there seemed to be occassional posts indicating the 'piste'. To say that my mate and I struggled was an understatement (and he is a better skier than me). At one point I got completely stuck, took the skis off and then sank waist deep into snow. Believe me that ain't a good experience (and I'm sure some of the off piste guys on here have been there - it saps your energy). We got down - eventually, but it was just way beyond our ability and we shouldn't have done it. People have asked if I was scared about that run and I wasn't at all, it was just well beyond my ability.
I think what I'm trying to say is that don't get hung up on the colours of the runs - you will be on blues and reds most of the time - but do push yourself appropriately. It's the only way to learn but don't get hung up on 'having to do a black' - you will know when in resort if you should or not.
Have a good holiday mate.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think the percentage of people that go down a run like Harakiri and actually ski it (rather than just get down it) is less than 5%. And I include myself in the 95%
As with e17phil, I am no expert skier either. I skied my first black on my fourth holiday in the mountains, and I too had already skied quite a bit in snowdomes, with lessons and coaching, so I am guessing that at the time I was able to ski a little better than the average Brit 'one a year' 4th weeker? At the time, I was able to carve on blues and smooth reds, and found reds fun and challenging. However, the more I improve my technique, the more I realise that I have much to learn!
The blacks that I tackled were very different. One was a short black, which was cut across by a snaking green, so plenty of chances to get out of jail free, if I bottled it. The conditions were great, straight after a fresh dump of snow. The black did not seem any steeper than the red that was next to it, which I had been skiing earlier in the week with no problem. I really enjoyed this run, and skied it a number of times over the last few days of that holiday. The next black I tried was a different story. A friend who knows me well had gone down it the day before and thought that although it was tougher than the other black, being longer and more cut up, I should be fine. However, this black had no other runs crossing it and was moderately long. In actual fact, the conditions on the slope had deteriorated from the day before and there was a warning notice at the base of one of the two lift stations that served it, but not at the one I used - so I didnt know that the conditions were not great. I would not have attempted it if I had know that it was in poor condition, I really should have asked! I could see the top third of the piste and although steep and mogulled, it looked do-able to me. However, the second third was rock hard mogulled ice, with a peppering of rocks. I took my time to get through that section, and did manage quite a hard fall. I got to the bottom in one piece but would not say I skied it, and did not attempt it again. It was in a whole different league! I have skied blues and reds tougher than the first black, due to difficult sow conditions but the second black was just nerve wrecking.
So the advice previously given is good. If you want to give a black a go, and an 'easy' black sounds like it 'could' be within your ability to ski, then -
* Don't ski alone, and if possible ski with a much more experienced skier, or even better, an instructor
* Chose a piste that is crossed by other easier pistes, so you can get out if you need to
* Chose a piste that you can see ALL of from the lift and evaluate where you think might be tricky (shady could mean ice, sharp bends, steep sections, edges/drop offs)
* Only ski it if the conditions are good, soft snow is much more forgiving than ice, epecially icy moguls. Ask the locals, lifties, instructors about conditions!
Best of luck, don't lose your head and put safety first!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
part of it will be psychological and how you cope with the steepness. Even if you are very good "freestyling", remember that you're doing it on very flat slopes here in UK; whilst slope classification also varies from country to country (and even resort to resort), I find even moderate blues tend to be MUCH steeper than the fridges at Hemel or MK. and as someone on here has said - Cham reds would be blacks in most places, so most Cham blacks will be at least as daunting as rayscoops,'s picture above.
read the conditions, don't do anything "stoopid", and most importantly - have fun. Cham is a great resort.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Hurtle wrote:
bezthespaniard, this, covered in car-sized moguls, with the consistency of reinforced concrete, and each with a gibbering person on its summit, is not much fun. At least it wasn't for me. (Oh, and it's Le Tunnel in Alpe d'Huez.)
I know this run well and its certainly one you don't want to find yourself doing as your first black! If you can ski Le Tunnel properly, especially when its in bad condition then you are a good skier period. I have seen lots of normally good solid seasonaires crumble on this, including a local bar owner friend who's been living there for years and very competant! Most of them were perfectly capable of skiing it but were just to nervous to commit to it.
To be honest though I think the bit at the top of the mountain when you come off the cable car is worse as its narrow, fairly steep, generally sheet ice and always packed with scared people who have realised its the only route down!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
UPDATE:
Went last Jan and had an amazing time but avoided the Blacks due to not feeling comfortable with the boots and skiis i was given.
Conquered all reds with ease by the end of the week and will be building myself up to the blacks this Jan.
The advice in here is spot on - it is all about the conditions. If there is snow, the runs are easy but when icy all runs are hard
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Hope you have a fab time in Feb. 
(Oh, and it's 
