 Poster: A snowHead
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| Kramer wrote: |
| davidof, do you happen to know how steep the Epaule de Charvet is in Espace Killy? |
Hi Kramer,
We are thinking about the black that comes down the back of the Bellevarde with the steep section just before the valley? Hmmm I don't remember, darn I will just have to go back this winter and check :-).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You can see a pic here
http://nbt.valdiseretrip.fotopic.net/p10848400.html
Santons is the blue run down the valley in the shade, Epaule du Charvet is the mogul run to the left of Santons.
Didn't ski it as the snow cover was ppoor and the moguls were huge, but I wouldn't say it looked overly sttep from the bottom.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've skied the Epaule de Charvet a few times and don't think it's particularly steep - in VdI, S and Tunnel are definitely steeper, but moguls sometimes make the Epaule tricky. Certainly Epaule isn't as steep as the top of Tunnel at Alpe d'Huez, some things at Verbier or St Anton, or the Courchevel couloirs.
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What about the notorious 'Wall' behind Avoriaz above Les Crosets?
Does anyone know how steep that is at the top?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was always told that the Epaule was the steepest run in Espace Killy. I agree that I've always found piste S and Foret harder, but that's mostly because of their narrowness.
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Surely the Epaule is only steep if you take the direct route rather than the long dog-leg: but then I think it is off piste (or am I wrong: the whole thing used to be off piste - I wonder when it changed).
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I'd put the Epaule as steep but manageble, as with M at Courchevel, but both as Kramer says are wide pistes, Face in VdI, is certainly less steep as I remember it than the Epaule. But like admin I'd love to know how steep the top of the Wall is, when I did it you just couldn't see over the edge at the top ..... we only went down it becasue one of our number had gone past the point of now return and like mugs we followed!
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The Swiss Wall or Le Pas de Chavanette is a shade under 50' at steepest.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowball, are you thinking of the "Tour de Charvet" which I think goes around the other side of that peak? (Although I haven't skied Val d'Isere for over a decade...)
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Yes, Martin, I was muddling with the Tour. Yes the Epaule is quite steep, now I've got my head on straight.
Of the off-piste runs one of the steepest is close by on the same mountain: the Pisteurs' Couloir. Has anyone skied that? It ends at the top of the Epaule so you could carry straight on and do the Epaule.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The steepest named and patrolled runs around these parts are the Lake Chutes at Breckenridge:
http://breckenridge.snow.com/mtn.gallery.enlarged.asp?image_id=3409
which are claimed to approach 50 degrees but probably average around 45,
and the similar-steepness North Pole Chutes at A-Basin which are off the ridge on the skyline in the shot at the bottom of this page:
http://www.howtoski.net/skiarea_ABasin.html
Both those areas currently have to be hiked to.
Snowball, I have never skied any couloirs at Val, always too busy racing when I was there. One day, maybe...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Gulp 
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| admin wrote: |
Does anyone know how steep that is at the top?
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By eye it looks about 35 degrees and this seems to correspond with my IGN map. Apparently the tourist office got into trouble with their overblown claims last year and now say that the steepest section near the top is 37.34° - confirmed by a Huissier de Justice no less, it all sounds very exact but I don't know how they measured this. In the brochure they are a bit more vague claiming a the slope is a shade under 40° at its steepest and other guides talk of a bit under 80%. Over to lookers left it looks steep and exposed if you fall.
I won't put a link to the Tourist Office site because they disable the browser "back" button which is a small minded thing to do... may their souls rot in hell for eternity or longer.
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You know it makes sense.
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davidof, I can confirm that it felt awfully steep when I floundered down it. The entry point is just behind a restaurant, then you can go left/right or straight down. There is a lip around 75 metres in to lull the unsuspecting intermediate into a false sense of their own capabilities 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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davidof, Absolutely! I reckon that's spot on.
For LDA I believe that the top of the Combe Valentin is around 32 deg and that's pretty steep. The part of the Grand Pente above the trees must be around 35-36 or even a bit more - but that's never pisted. Lower part of the Super Diable probably around 35 and that is regularly pisted (with winches of course). I should think that the Grand Couloir is at least 35 on the walls, but again it's never pisted!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| davidof, I can confirm that it felt awfully steep when I floundered down it. |
If it is 37.5 degrees it is very steep. The moguls wouldn't make life easy either.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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davidof, I sometimes find moguls on a steep slope can give a sense of security, because it means the slope isn't uniformly at a suicidal pitch: you can approach it, if needs be, by aiming for the 'up' slope of particular bumps. Of course, I'm not talking about getting down in style...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I always find the Epaule quite deceptive as it is a convex slope, which means that it just gets steeper and steeper as you go down it. I'm not sure that I would choose it as a first black run though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kramer,
| Quote: |
I'm not sure that I would choose it as a first black run though.
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Nor would I now! but ignorance is bliss and it was chosen for me
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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the grand coulouir in Courchevel is supposedly the steepest marked run in Europe at 38 degrees at its steepest part-this looks quite steep but not too daunting I haven't skiied many other really steep pistes to compare it with but there must besome more challenging/steeper runs than grand c.
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No ones mentioned the flypaper at Glencoe. Any idea? Also, for interest's sake, what about the wagon wheel?
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paulmck,
I think the flypaper is fairly standard black run steepness, never heard of the wagon wheel, where is it?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The Flypaper is steeper than the average black run, but what makes it often lethal is the "boiler plate with protruding rocks" surface - I don't think it would qualify as a piste in the Alps!
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davidof,
I was most amused to see that towards the end of the season that the gap between a couple of the bumps at the top of the Wall had started to cover over, turning it into a near tunnel. I think people had eroded so far in that the remaining snow was slowly collapsing into itself.
He he he.
On pure steepness I suppose it depends a little bit on your measurement of slope or snow angle. The downwards face of some of these bumps can be very steep indeed for a very short distance... 
Personally I reckon the Machon bowl is a steeper run on a consistent basis.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Someone on an earlier thread said that the Flypaperat Glencoe is 38º, which sounds about right, but it is very short with the longest access and traverse back to the lifts. Here is a vue looking down the Flypaper.
I didn't find it rocky when I skied it many years ago, but perhaps now with the lack of snow...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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snowball,
Good piccie, but 38 degrees  , looks more like 30. I guess as always it is the quality of snow that makes for difficulty rather than steepness alone.
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No, I think it is well over 30º, 38º average is a figure I read somewhere and I think is about right. It is by a long way the steepest piste in Scotland. If you fall there is no way you could stop before reaching the bottom. It is much too steep to ever have moguls
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You know it makes sense.
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If we're talking Scotland chaps, how steep is the West Wall in Cairngorm? Did it many years ago in the mist and thought it was steep, but did it again when it had cleared up and was awe inspired as to how steep it was ... but then again I wasn't used to steep slopes then. Is it a trick of my memory?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Found some info on average steepness of several slopes at
http://www.winterhighland.info/forums/read.php?2,46205,46205#msg-46205
The best piece is the reference to the SMC Scottish Ski Mountaineering guide by D.Bennet + Bill Wallace. Has anyone got this book and can they find the relevant section?
Another response in this winterhighland forum includes the phrase " I believe that the Fly Paper is around 45 degrees depending on ..." but there is no evidence to support the statement.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Adrian,
I have dug out my copy of the SMC guide, unfortunately it says nothing about the flypaper that I can find.
For those interested it lists:
White Lady 21 Degrees
West Wall 30 ''
Tiger Run 27 ''
and a few others.
I cannot find my OS map of the area to give an estimate either.
Incidentally can anyone tell me the key sequence for putting in the degrees sign.
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