 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
pam w, good point. I think there are different ways of defining 'intermediate' though. I think it depends on whether one's measured against a set of skills or against other people. If you put skill level on a scale of 'never skied' to 'World Cup winner' (or some equivalent in off-piste skiing), then I'd say I was less than halfway along (and, of course, never destined to get there) and probably not even 'intermediate'. On the other hand, I'd rate myself a better skier than say 80% of folk on a typical red run, so arguably better than 'intermediate'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Quote: |
How on earth would you know when that is? You'd have to be at the end to know when the middle was
|
It's fairly irrelevant if you know when it is lol, that doesn't change the level! As a guide, to be an intermediate (ie in the middle of what is possible skiing-wise) you should be comfortable and competent skiing (properly) on any piste. I would suggest that it would take maybe 10 weeks or so for most people to get to this level. |
Blimey.. I wish it had only taken me ten weeks to be able ski down 'anything' fairly comfy, but I no longer want to hammer down at XXMPH... just doesn't make sense.. does it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
If you put skill level on a scale of 'never skied' to 'World Cup winner' (or some equivalent in off-piste skiing), then I'd say I was less than halfway along (and, of course, never destined to get there) and probably not even 'intermediate'
|
And that is how it should be measured. Otherwise an intermediate skiing with beginners would appear to be an 'expert.'
I think the scale would be beginner, to skiing well on every piste (intermediate), to skiing well and safely offpiste inc bumps, being around the level of a level 2 instuctor (advanced) to high level racing, freeride comps, ISIA level instructor or similar skill (expert)
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 14-02-10 3:10; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
I wish it had only taken me ten weeks to be able ski down 'anything' fairly comfy
|
I said any piste, not ski anything 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
That thread looks really dull - but I'd quite fancy skiing on Marmite. What would I use instead of wax? Olive Oil, or Utterly Butterly.......no, wait.....Guacamole. Where do I sign?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Personally, I quite like Rob and Scott's 'definitions' of ski levels on their website. That puts me firmly in the position of 'intermediate', a position I've been in for about half of my 30+ year ski career.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Here's a nice, steep, mogulled black run. Is it much fun? Certainly a challenge and if you've got good knees and want a good work out possibly, but not my cup of tea.
Pam W, skiing that is MUCH harder than skiing powder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
clarky999, Soz mate, I meant any piste - like between the poles, albeit including un-pisted piste though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
snowball, Mmm one on the right doesn't look like a slope from the pic.. more like a vertical drop. Would love to give it a go, especially the shady corner, at the right time of day!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
bobinch,
Yuk, that looks bleedin' horrible! Cant believe anyone would enjoy that (not in that condition at least!)...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
I agree that I too prefer the back at Mont Fort. I'm not a fan of moguls. But the less skied snow is under the lift (to see it as moguled as this is unusual).
By the way the slope in the photo isn't anything like as steep as it looks here. The piste is less than 35º
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 14-02-10 0:25; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Rather off topic but here's one of the routes down the backside taken an hour before the picture above....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
bobinch, delicious.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I can never understand why people on pistes all turn on the most skied, icy bits. The easiest to keep control on are the rough bits with loose snow on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
But what is really fun is if I am making the first turns on an unmarked slope where there is no one, and no man made structures in sight. In fact that isn't just fun, that is sublime.
|
That's religion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Off piste is dangerous and horrible to turn in and nasty when you fall over and people should never be encouraged to try it 
Piste skiing is great! Remember - when you have got past 'intermediate' skier stage and mastered black pistes, you will have to defeat the boss monster, and go back to level one and ski green,blue,red and black all again but this time backwards!
And when you have done that, you have to do it forwards, but with invisible terrain.
Only when you have done all levels backwards and invisible, will you be allowed off piste.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I'm sure it's been said before here, but I find this obsession with the 'colour' of slopes so bourgeois.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think I understand the off-piste thing although it's not something that appeals to me, but like I said on the other thread one of the great things about skiing is that it can be different things to different people. For me it's an enjoyable, exhilarating holiday a world away from my humdrum life. I like to cruise about on blue and red pistes that flatter my skiing and don't scare me.
But each to their own. That's the point. Just because the OP doesn't like black runs, doesn't mean there's no point to them. I've not met many black runs I like either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| I think I understand the off-piste thing although it's not something that appeals to me, |
OK,I'm not sure about the first part though.
| Quote: |
but like I said on the other thread one of the great things about skiing is that it can be different things to different people. For me it's an enjoyable, exhilarating holiday a world away from my humdrum life. |
substitute piste for life here.
| Quote: |
But each to their own. That's the point. Just because the OP doesn't like black runs, doesn't mean there's no point to them. I've not met many black runs I like either. |
I have long, long since given up looking at 'run' ratings, it's all about weather and aspect.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
robinsrule, A few more hours & lessons and you'll find that those black pistes ARE your motorway runs.
I will probably get slapped for this - however, I do not feel you should be on black pistes at this stage of your ski career. You are causing a danger to others. But this attitude it seems is quite prevalent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
comprex, I meant I think I understand why people enjoy it. I know it's not for me, but I think I can see the appeal to others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| laundryman wrote: |
| pam w, good point. I think there are different ways of defining 'intermediate' though. I think it depends on whether one's measured against a set of skills or against other people. If you put skill level on a scale of 'never skied' to 'World Cup winner' (or some equivalent in off-piste skiing), then I'd say I was less than halfway along (and, of course, never destined to get there) and probably not even 'intermediate'. On the other hand, I'd rate myself a better skier than say 80% of folk on a typical red run, so arguably better than 'intermediate'. |
Which is why people booking lessons through the ski school can be a bit of a nightmare. People class themselves as Intermediates for three main reasons. Firstly, if they arent great but just dont want to think of themselves still being a beginner after a week or two on snow. Secondly if they truly are intermediates. Thirdly if they are possibly advanced or high intermediate but dont want to seem too cocky. Imagine having all of those people under one banner in a lesson 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| skidog wrote: |
| laundryman wrote: |
| pam w, good point. I think there are different ways of defining 'intermediate' though. I think it depends on whether one's measured against a set of skills or against other people. If you put skill level on a scale of 'never skied' to 'World Cup winner' (or some equivalent in off-piste skiing), then I'd say I was less than halfway along (and, of course, never destined to get there) and probably not even 'intermediate'. On the other hand, I'd rate myself a better skier than say 80% of folk on a typical red run, so arguably better than 'intermediate'. |
Which is why people booking lessons through the ski school can be a bit of a nightmare. People class themselves as Intermediates for three main reasons. Firstly, if they arent great but just dont want to think of themselves still being a beginner after a week or two on snow. Secondly if they truly are intermediates. Thirdly if they are possibly advanced or high intermediate but dont want to seem too cocky. Imagine having all of those people under one banner in a lesson |
Funnily enough, talking to an instructor from a well known French ski school in LA couple of weeks back. Amongst other things... he was moaning about intermediate groups being a nightmare for reasons as above. The fact that some people deliberately put themselves in lower groups came up too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Firstly, if they arent great but just dont want to think of themselves still being a beginner after a week or two on snow
|
OP for example! IMHO you would need to be very gifted to get down a genuine steep piste safely and competently after a week or so.
| Quote: |
I think I understand the off-piste thing although it's not something that appeals to me, but like I said on the other thread one of the great things about skiing is that it can be different things to different people. For me it's an enjoyable, exhilarating holiday a world away from my humdrum life. I like to cruise about on blue and red pistes that flatter my skiing and don't scare me.
|
Amen. I used to ski with a lot of Aussie boarders who only rode "faahk'n paaadha"...unless there was a meter of freshs snow, and woe betide anyone rude enough to ride it before they had cut the first lines, theyd be sat in the restaurant moaning about lack of powder, and i made a mental note never to end up like that...
While were talking about levels, a kiwi teacher in St. Anton said unless you can stop immediately, on any terrain, then you cant reasonably consider yourself a good skier, i disagreed. Any thoughts?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
shiva_71,
| Quote: |
unless you can stop immediately, on any terrain, then you cant reasonably consider yourself a good skier, i disagreed. Any thoughts?
|
Don't know about good skier but it should be one of the first things taught and one of the first techniques mastered 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| shiva_71 wrote: |
| While were talking about levels, a kiwi teacher in St. Anton said unless you can stop immediately, on any terrain, then you cant reasonably consider yourself a good skier, i disagreed. Any thoughts? |
What do he mean by immediately? If you're doing 40mph skiing GS down an open piste the only way to stop immediately would be to ski into a tree. I can stop quickly in all conditions, but I can't defeat the laws of physics.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| but I can't defeat the laws of physics. |
Maybe if we fire our Phasers in to the warp core reactor it might just work.
Sorry off topic I know but I couldn't resist it 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Gilberts Fridge, bonus point for Star Trek reference
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
What do he mean by immediately? If you're doing 40mph skiing GS down an open piste the only way to stop immediately would be to ski into a tree. I can stop quickly in all conditions, but I can't defeat the laws of physics.
|
Exactly what i told him. As you say, if youre carrying 40mph, even a textbook stop youre still gonna skid a good 5m even on your edges and square to the fall line...dont quote me on 5m, if feels much further sometimes! Needless to say, no stop is completely successful without covering a random snowboarder in snow, might stop the bugs sitting in the middle of the piste for a quick nap... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
rob@rar, How fast you stop determines how many ribs you break.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Spyderman, Fortunately that wasn't a sudden stop at all as I slid for some distance, although the initial impact slowed me down quite quickly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
A newly pisted wide black in good conditions is a lot more pleasant than an icy narrow blue full of people. I've been down about 3 blacks in my 2 weeks' skiing. I quite liked all of them in hindsight, although my first was due to a map reading error by my OH, it was the one he'd've picked - short enough to see the bottom easily. The other two were done first in my ski lessons - and were done on days when they had been pisted recently and so were not all bumpy. I got down both absolutely fine, really enjoyed them both, especially the schuss at end of Trolles in Tignes - and had far more issues on a couple blues and reds. The worst experience I had was being faced with a mogul field (on a red) and simply not having the skill base (or gung ho blase attitude) to do anything other than keep ending up like an upside down tortoise in the troughs... That was not fun at all, and I have vowed to avoid moguls until I can do consistent short radius turns in a place dictated by someone else on a non mogulled piste...
My OH is more experienced than me, and we wouldn't do a black together unless he'd scouted it first or there was a get out clause for the nasty bits. Reds we'd usually risk, but it's easier if you can check them out from the lift as there were a few I didn't like in Tignes and Val d'Isere (mogulled or narrow and exposed).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I say each to their own. What is one person's pain is another person's pleasure.
I know personally going on my own ability that whilst I currently wouldn't venture onto many blacks (for my safety and others!) I dont think you can judge whether others enjoy particular "colours" of slopes or not. I feel most confident on powdery reds but thats just me. My boyfriend loves the powder and tackling a black.
Everyone feels comfortable doing different things, pushing themselves in different ways and thats what makes skiing so great is that there is such scope to challenge yourself as much or as little as you like. If you like cruising blues all week, fair play. If you want to fly down a mogulfield or difficult black then fair play too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| skidog wrote: |
Which is why people booking lessons through the ski school can be a bit of a nightmare. People class themselves as Intermediates for three main reasons. Firstly, if they arent great but just dont want to think of themselves still being a beginner after a week or two on snow. Secondly if they truly are intermediates. Thirdly if they are possibly advanced or high intermediate but dont want to seem too cocky. Imagine having all of those people under one banner in a lesson |
It happened in my last UCPA trip. I was initially in the intermediate group and it turned into a nightmare on the first day (in the end only one girl stayed in the group and effective had one-to-one lessons all day every day for the rest of the week). It was hard to believe how wide the range of skill people classify themselves as intermediates when signing up at ski school.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I took a "double black" group lesson the other day. First thing when the instructor asked what we wanted to do - some guy piped up "carving", everyone else visibly yawned so fortunately we got to do bumps and trees. The carving guy dropped out along with a few other chancers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| robinsrule wrote: |
| Time for a bit of controversy… Just what is the point of black slopes? |
There is no controversy. A black slope (by definition) are the hardest slopes in a resort. I.e. on average, they are harder than the reds in the same resort, which are harder than the blues in that resort, which are harder than the greens in that resort (assuming the resort uses the green/blue/red/black coding).
Just because a relative beginner can get down a black run does not make the run pointless. Most skiers of your experience have difficulty skiing blue runs in efficiently and in style, so on a black you'll not make a pretty sight! Yes you can get down it, but skiing it well, in full control? No chance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
or do you feel 
Dont be put off 
these guys have all helped me learn. Keep you eye on Bend ze knees, and you will be surprised how much you learn.
