 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Carving isn't the be all and end all. Carving has its time and its place as does rotation and also pressure. Each is a great tool to have and use in your tool box. There are no rules just use which you find appropriate at each given time.
I meet instructors that teach nothing but carving and then others that teach all methods. Its was only last week that i had an argument with another instructor over pole planting. He felt there was no need for it and i argued for half an hour that there was.
Enough said.
Every single tool has a use.
Use them and enjoy your skiing more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
little tiger,
| Quote: |
the speed becomes less scary when the control factor improves - take it from the super chicken!
|
That does make sense, actually. How ya doing? Feeling a bit better?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Yes thanks Hurtle... not great today - but we had visitors yesterday and I overdid it a bit... but generally better over the week than I was a couple of weeks ago...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| woody911 wrote: |
| Carving isn't the be all and end all. Carving has its time and its place as does rotation and also pressure. |
I agree, it's no more and no less important than others ways of steering your skis. It shouldn't be seen as the pinnacle of skiing, nor should it be dismissed as a irrelevant to most skiers' needs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
It's not the be all and end all, but generally if a skier can carve a turn then you can assume that they're pretty confident at most other technical skills.
Carving slowly, now that's really difficult to do. Gets me falling over on green runs even now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ah! Although I wasn't really thinking about what I was doing, or why, I did find things worked much better in powder if I did a sort of wiggle, a bit like the "ankle rolling" exercise we did in LDA (thanks, easiski!) and which I now practise when on those otherwise rather boring gentle tracks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| woody911 wrote: |
| Carving isn't the be all and end all. Carving has its time and its place as does rotation and also pressure. |
I agree, it's no more and no less important than others ways of steering your skis. It shouldn't be seen as the pinnacle of skiing, nor should it be dismissed as a irrelevant to most skiers' needs. |
I'm not sure. Most skiers I know who can carve will choose it above almost any other method of turning when conditions are suitable. Yourself included - I've never seen you skid a turn when you could carve one when we've been freeskiing together.
Most of my friends who are just learning to carve find it exhilirating when it 'clicks' for a turn or two, and to be honest, of the three ways of turning a ski, it is by far the most efficient and least tiring to do so.
The be all and end all of turns is when you can carve switch in variable off piste conditions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Kramer wrote: |
| I'm not sure. Most skiers I know who can carve will choose it above almost any other method of turning when conditions are suitable. Yourself included - I've never seen you skid a turn when you could carve one when we've been freeskiing together. |
I think there's a bit of rotation being blended in there to help steer the turn a lot of the time, but you're right to say that
| Kramer wrote: |
| of the three ways of turning a ski, it is by far the most efficient and least tiring to do so. |
especially if you just "park and ride" the edges. Much less tiring that steering in other ways, so I'll do that in preference to other ways of getting around the pistes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
monster77
monster77
Guest
|
|
From reading some of these posts, some people are mistaking railing for carving. Just putting the skis on an edge and using the skis shape to make the turn is railing. Carving is putting the ski on an edge but altering the amount of edge and pressure to tighten or increase the turn radius.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
monster77, "railing", "carving", "park 'n ride" are all pretty unhelpful terms IMO. Much better to talk about steering the skis by controlling edge angle. Sometimes you don't need to manage the turn shape by varying the edge angle, especially if you're just cruising around, so just standing on your skis at a fairly gentle edge angle is a perfectly good thing to do. But how many people ski the majority of their time just using edge control to ski around the place? I'd say hardly any? There's almost always a blend of other things going on as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| monster77 wrote: |
| From reading some of these posts, some people are mistaking railing for carving. Just putting the skis on an edge and using the skis shape to make the turn is railing. Carving is putting the ski on an edge but altering the amount of edge and pressure to tighten or increase the turn radius. |
I'm probably being stupid here, but I don't think that there's much of a difference between the two things that you describe. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Kramer wrote: |
| I'm probably being stupid here, but I don't think that there's much of a difference between the two things that you describe. |
I don't think there's a huge difference - just increasing or decreasing the turn radius (during the turn) by increasing or decreasing the edge angle. That kind of happens in all carved turns as by definition your edge your skis from flat to whatever the maximum edge angle is for that turn, so I think it's just a question of having a bit more control of your turn shape by varying the edge angle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
i think railing is just entry level pure carving
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I think anyone can learn the virtues of carving by watching this. http://uk.youtube.com/v/TTboYL8CjaU As always it looks so easy when done well. And that is what I call controlled skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
clive5, I love watching those clips. Poetry in motion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
clive5, quality vid. Makes it look achieveable with a lot of practice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Funnily enough, I didn't think that they had quite as much style as some instructors I've seen. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
monster77
monster77
Guest
|
| Kramer wrote: |
| monster77 wrote: |
| From reading some of these posts, some people are mistaking railing for carving. Just putting the skis on an edge and using the skis shape to make the turn is railing. Carving is putting the ski on an edge but altering the amount of edge and pressure to tighten or increase the turn radius. |
I'm probably being stupid here, but I don't think that there's much of a difference between the two things that you describe. |
Anybody can rail a ski IE stick it on an edge and let it ride round the turn shape without putting any effort in, but to carve a proper turn you need to put in some effort, edge angle and pressure control.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| monster77 wrote: |
| Anybody can rail a ski |
I'm not sure they can, certainly not linking turns.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I sure can't 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Kramer, I'm sure there are instructors across the Alps that think they can ski as good as the people in that clip. But do you think they can?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What's that first guy doing with his hands? Pity their skis aren't parallel I guess
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Yoda, looks like a training exercise to me, sort of like a recovery drill for when he drops behind his skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| monster77 wrote: |
| Anybody can rail a ski IE stick it on an edge and let it ride round the turn shape without putting any effort in, but to carve a proper turn you need to put in some effort, edge angle and pressure control. |
I'm not sure that anyone can.
Also to get a ski on edge, and to stay on that edge without it slipping takes edge angle and pressure control. I admit it's easier to "park and ride" than to put effort into carving, but if you watch someone who is parking and riding, although it looks effortless, generally they have good stance over the skis, good posture, and excellent weight distribution.
As always, making something look easy, doesn't mean that it is easy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It's called getting the hands in to the correct position weight forward over the skis or pole plants
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
rob@rar, now that you mention it I think I've seen folk doing drills with odd hand movements - although I had the impression in that case it was more of a "brain train" - i.e. can you do something complicated with your hands without disrupting your skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
clive5, are you referring to the first skier in the clip?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Yoda, the first time that clip was referenced here someone (IIRC Fastman) commented that that was a bit of a Cuche idiosyncracy, and one reason he didn't tend to use him as a model. I've also seen that in a number of junior racers - it partly a way of clearing gates (although it's considered better form in slalom to have the body angulation/inclination such than the gate hits your hand in its normal position), but also a way of generating a little bit of extra speed with the momentum changes involved in swinging the arms (the most extreme examples I've seen have been in kids who are quite small for their age).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Yoda wrote: |
| rob@rar, now that you mention it I think I've seen folk doing drills with odd hand movements - although I had the impression in that case it was more of a "brain train" - i.e. can you do something complicated with your hands without disrupting your skiing. |
Might be. I've done odd stuff (passing a baton around my body, hopping over poles and the like) which is designed to do exactly that: test your balance by disturbing things in your skiing. I suspect that in Cuche's case he's probably spot on with his balance so the odd hands movements was to do with something else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
GrahamN, ah I see. You've reminded me of a "old school" skier I saw once (in Val D'Isere funnily enough) who looked as though he was playing table tennis at each turn - arm across the body and swinging out as if to knock an imaginary pole out of the way. Quite disruptive I should think, and for lesser skiers than Cuche likely to push them into the back seat as the hands come up
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Yoda, If you watch all the Skiers do it to a greater or lesser degree. And it's all about being forward and in control.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
clive5, well I agree that they all have their hands nicely forward, but I don't see that Cuche's "high five" technique assists with either that or pole-planting. Never mind, it's just me 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Look back at your tracks: if you can see a clear line in the snow for each ski edge on the turns then it was a pure carve - if the marks are smeared through the turn it wasn't.
Edit: I didn't see there was a page 2. A bit irrelevant now perhaps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The vid posted by clive5, above we've seen here before. I've just re-watched it having read the odd comments above re: pole planting - it just occurred that although the skiers in the video all carry their poles, none of them actually appear to be 'pole planting' as such - rather the pole seems to used as an aid to balance and possibly speed control. Whilst I suspect they are carrying their poles rather more effectively and tidily than I do they appear to make no more use of them than I do of mine - I think I shall stop worrying about pole planting just yet 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Megamum, I'm sure the vid has been seen before on here. The point is they are all going through the motion of pole planting even if they don't do it. There hands are in the correct position at the correct time. If you watch them at full speed they all pole plant. when I ski a blue run I hardly ever do a full pole plant it's a token effort. Put me on a steep icy black and I suddenly start to pole plant.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
