 Poster: A snowHead
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If Ryanair really wanted the moral high ground in this they should have written to all the customers pointing out exactly how much they'd been 'ripped off' for and offering them the flight direct at 'the real price'. One in the eye for the scrapers, good publicity and a thousand happy customers to boot.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laundryman, nothing at all statistically significant. They have lots of flights and so lots of opportunities for errors. They fly into a lot of small airports and I suspect get plenty of challenging experience. And I am very happy to fly with them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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maggi, dunno, I've never booked with them. Just assuming they'd have an email address or some means of contacting the person with the booking.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FenlandSkier, they do, I think. The question was whether the scrapers had passed those on to Ryanair. Anyway, I don't thionk MOL cares about themoral hig ground. Sofar, in business terms, that's paid off Doesn't suit me - and I don't fly with them. But the market gets what the market deserves.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ah, no. I wouldn't marry such an arus-hole. I do have morals. Which is why I will never be rich  .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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maggi, anyone who has met you sees you as a shining icon of moral propriety. I could not possibly have meant you. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sage, Very true, it does not want anyone to book outside of their system!
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You know it makes sense.
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Sage, Roy Hockley, Ryanair's issue is not just about the lost commercial opportunity with the customer.
A lot (most?) of it revolves around their technological platform/technology and the 'raison d'etre' behind it .. no more from me on this thread.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Steady on.  The way this has been spun will lead to nothing but bad publicity for Ryanair and ebusiness in general but I firmly believe that any business has every right to be able to sell their wares by whatever (legal) business model they choose. If Ryanair have made a 'No 3rd Party Broking' policy clear then the internet companies involved should themselves be considered as nothing more than opportunist 'phishers'.
I can't however understand how Ryanair cannot make their website unembeddable for ebusiness but irrespective, Ryanair should quite fairly be allowed to refuse passengers who've booked outside of their approved system so long as the booker can be made aware (by some very obvious text at booking time) that it won't be honoured. If Ryanair had somehow received payment through the internet broker, the passenger's money should also be refunded.
Having said that, the last time I flew with Ryanair (Prestwick to Stansted on a Friday evening) the flight was delayed enough to annoy me not to hurry back.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ok, this may not be quite as bad as I thought when I heard it on the radio, as my understanding from that mention was that Ryanair had basically done a money grap, allowed these bookings to be made, taken the money, cancelled the tickets without giving refunds and then re-selling the tickets. If however they do just that - then the book should be thrown at them, time for the regulators to stop pussy footing around with Ryanair.
Eitherway making this retrospective for already booked flights knowing full well many passengers wont know until they reach the airport is unacceptable when Ryanair have got the money for these tickets.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Helen Beaumont, Spot on you play by there rules and get cheap flights they are great the only problems I have ever had flying Ryanair have been caused by other people and I have used them 2 a month for the past 14 months!
Hand luggage and check on has never been a problem and the flights where always on time
Look O'leary is the same as every other Airline CEO he is just honest and does not hide behind all the crap and bull of corporate resposibility. As for purchasing his taxi plate try driving in Dublin and you will understand why he did it. He has taken on the Dublin airport authority adn everyone else he can in Ireland and has got consumers a better deal
This latest this ryanair are spot on why should some one who has not given them their details turn up at an airport and complain about their flight not being their when ryanair did not know who they are? Scraping from websites is a very dodgy practice and this move will protect people flying and obviously up ryainairs personal cash balance.
They do exactly what they say on the tin there are no suprises and if you are suprised by them you are seriously foolish for thinking they would be any diffrent.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Good one - though it's a classic case of the senior pilot being reluctant to accept advice from his junior - along-standing problem, and not just confined to Ryanair. Lately I think there have been folk wondering if Ryanair (and other low-cost airlines) are clamping down on contignency fuel and the captain's discretion to divert. I've not seen anything definite to support that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Winterhighland, if you refer back to the BBC link.
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| Passengers whose bookings have been cancelled will be compensated. |
I doubt if Ryanair will pay consequential loss, nor should they be expected to, IMV. Those who booked should have a claim against the scraper sites though - but I wonder if their Customer Support will be great. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Agenterre, That is a shame you do not wish to further the debate. I am no fan of Ryanair's customer service, in fact I think it stinks!! You can see all my contributions regarding Ryanair in the past and not just on this one. You have to understand that this scraping website bought the tickets despite under Ryanair's T&C's they were not allowed to.
The Scrapers in this instant are at fault! Those foolish enough to book with the scrapers have a problem, the problem lies with the company they booked with!! You may be right and those people will never travel with them again, fair point. There are others that will, maybe just maybe all these people will tell their friends and their friend just might just not travel with Ryanair again. At the end of the day money talks to a lot of passengers and they may not be swayed by their friends plight. I know where I would put my money, although I admire your prinipalled stance on the matter.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Ordhan wrote: |
Look O'leary is the same as every other Airline CEO he is just honest and does not hide behind all the crap and bull of corporate resposibility.
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He certainly speaks the truth as he sees it, not necessarily the way others see it 
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Unhindered by subtlety, O'Leary could pick a fight at Confession. EC commissioners are "f*****g Kim-Il-Sungs". The top brass at BAA are "over-charging rapists". Brussels is "an evil empire", full of "morons", and environment campaigners are "half-witted loons".
When pressed by disgruntled Ryanair passengers for a refund, O'Leary's standard response is unconventional: "What part of No Refund do you not understand? You are not getting a refund, so f**k off." |
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O'Leary occasionally turns the verbal flame-thrower inward, describing himself as "a jumped-up Paddy", "a gobshite" and "an obnoxious little dangly bits". He has a point.
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source
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The business I work in is bound by the FSA regulations in respect of “Treating Customers Fairly"..
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/Doing/Regulated/tcf/index.shtml
I believe this is good for the industry I work in (insurance - we have a non too good reputation which need to be improved upon) both for my businesses long term profits and our customers.
I think the airline industry should be regulated with similar rules. They take a significant amount of our money and cancelling flights and saying its outside out T&C which were unknown to the booker is quite frankly not good enough.
Do I use them? – today before I read this post, I booked a Ryanair flight to go to Perpignan next week for a family holiday…oh uh
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cfc5mu0, those affected by the incident that provoked this thread were not customers of Ryanair. If some against decides to take money from punters for buying my company's products, I cannot see that we should be bound to accept the contracts. A bank wouldn't either. And I am dam sure my bank doesn't regularly send me t&cu pdates on the assumption that they won't invoke them just because few read the pages of small print.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| cfc5mu0 wrote: |
....in respect of “Treating Customers Fairly"..
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Ah yes, Ryanair has quite a track record for fair treatment of passengers:
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Specific incidents involving disabled passengers include the following:
- In 2005, the airline was criticised for ejecting nine blind and partially sighted passengers from a flight at Stansted, because the group meant the plane would be carrying more than the four disabled passengers permitted by the airline's safety regulations.
- In 2005, Ryanair were forced to pay Bob Ross £1,336 in damages after charging him £18 to use a wheelchair.
- In 2006, Ryanair apologised after refusing to provide an elderly injured passenger with a wheelchair.
- Also in 2006, Ryanair apologised after refusing to provide a sick cancer sufferer with a wheelchair.
- In 2007, Ryanair apologised after forcing a 14-year old with a broken leg to stand on a flight, despite the boy being in pain. Ryanair cabin crew and captain were described as cruel.
- Also in 2007, Ryanair ordered a group of visually impaired passengers to disembark from a flight before take-off with the excuse that the flight had exceeded the permitted number of "mobility-impaired" passengers. The company refused to pay compensation required by law, claiming that they had disembarked voluntarily. Ryanair subsequently paid compensation before court proceedings took place.
- In 2008, Ryanair were ordered to pay £1,116 to each member of the London-based Caribbean Steel International Orchestra who had been denied access to the plane for security reasons despite having been cleared by the police on December 31, 2006. The band had previously been escorted off the plane by armed police because of passengers' concerns that the members were seated separately and one of the members who was blind appeared to have been reading the newspaper. The judge ruled that the ethnicity of the band members as well as "irrational fears" of some passengers were factors in Ryanair's actions.
- In 2008, Ryanair paid out 100 pounds to a disabled woman after staff refused to help her to board a plane when the device used by the airport in cases of assistance boarding failed to arrive |
source
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Sage, good grief. I was referring to the sanctimonious comparison with the banks' behaviour, and the specifics relating to the original post. I hold no particular brief for Ryanair, and don't wish to fly with them. However to take the last of your points
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| - In 2008, Ryanair paid out 100 pounds to a disabled woman after staff refused to help her to board a plane when the device used by the airport in cases of assistance boarding failed to arrive |
I think the airline is damned if it does - and therefore gets complaints from staff at risking their health - depending on the disability, helping a disabled person with no equipment up steps may be no joke (I regularly assist a disabled person) - or damned it doesn't - a cheap laugh by you here.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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imagine th euproar if said passenger had been dropped down the stairs..? RYAN AIR HALF KILL DISABLED PASSENGER BY FORCING THEM ON PLANE WITHOUT THE CORRECT EQUIPMENT TO GET FLIGHT AWAY ON TIME.. STANSTEAD AIRPORT SAID THE WHEELCHAIR REQUIRED WAS ONLY AT GATWICK AND COULD HAVE BEEN THERE IN 3 HOURS..!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles, The compensation was more for not having the lifting equipment there - Servisair who were ment to supply the equipment are an agent of Ryanair so therefore Ryanair were at fault. The womans husband eventually carried her on to the flight.
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Sage, the point you raised in your earlier post was that staff refused to help her to board a plane. Seems entirely reasonable to me. And whilst Ryanair are technically reponssible, they were let down by their agent, which could happen to any of a variety of airlines on a bad day. Seems like another example of Ryainr-bashing as a sport. Still many sHs have always needed something to bash - used to be the SCGB in the early days. It's Ryanair now - I wonder who will be the next target.
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You know it makes sense.
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Sage, despite being a regular Ryanair basher, I'd have to take issue with several of the items you've posted, as the number of "Passengers with reduced mobility" or a disability is very strictly controlled on aircraft by EU regulations, CAA licencing requirements, and national laws. While Ryanair probably didn't handle the situation very well, they are within their rights to prevent passengers boarding if that would be in breach of the safety regulations and their SOPs, especially if the passengers failed to notify them that they were disabled or required assistance.
Also, the provision of wheelchairs or mobility assistance is the airport's responsibility, although they can charge the carrier for each incidence. If the carrier then chooses to pass that on to the customer, I see that as commercial logic, even though it seems discriminatory. If fat people had to pay more for their seat because they caused the plane to use more fuel, I'd also be happy with that.
From a personal point of view, I'd not be thrilled to be on a flight with a group of blind people (or on crutches, paraplegic, Downs syndrome, or whatever else you may classify as "disabled") if they were between me and the emergency exits, unless they had enough assistants to ensure that they wouldn't present an undue risk to everyone else on board in the event of an emergency. Whether this should be 1-to-1, 1-to-4 or whatever isn't something I could decide on, but that's why the regulations are there - with 4 cabin crew to attend to 140 passengers, having 2 rows of blind people would presumably be too much of a risk.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Michael O'Leary comes across as very arrogant, he doesn't seem to show any respect to anyone. I was reading in the Irish papers that the head of a small Irish airline (Aer Arann) met with him to discuss why O'Leary was trying to put them out of business. O'Leary was quoted as saying "Will you ever f$$k off back to Connaught (where the CEO is from)" and hunted him out of his office!
Still they tend to be cheap and have provided competition for Aer Lingus which has meant I have been able to fly very cheaply all over Europe so I can't complain too much.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Peter Ross, Ryanair have taken over the Government subsidised route from Aer Arran (Kerry - Dublin). They have dropped the number of planes, but increased the number of seats. The prices are cheaper, perhaps the Connaght based carrier had inflated prices! I too agree with your last paragraph!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Peter Ross wrote: |
Michael O'Leary comes across as very arrogant, he doesn't seem to show any respect to anyone. I was reading in the Irish papers that the head of a small Irish airline (Aer Arann) met with him to discuss why O'Leary was trying to put them out of business. O'Leary was quoted as saying "Will you ever f$$k off back to Connaught (where the CEO is from)" and hunted him out of his office!
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Ya.. I guess O'Leary should've said "sorry, here... I'll give the routes to you."
It's business ffs, get a grip people.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I go to my local pizza shop & buy a basic pizza for about £5, then i add on a couple of extra toppings at 65p each, then order a portion of chips at £1.60 and a can of coke at 75p = £8.65 delivery also costs extra.
What is the differance between my pizza shop and Ryan air offering a cheap price and lots of add ons?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ousekjarr, They were not my comments they were from the source quoted. You are incorrect about the provision of wheelchairs, the courts have ruled it is a joint responsibility between the Airport and the Airline. Access by ambulift to the plane is supplied by the airline. The blind party in question each had an individual guide and were actually on board the plane when they were thrown off.
| Quote: |
| ...breach of the safety regulations and their SOPs |
These do not supercede the Disability Discrimination Act or the brand spanking new (EC) 1107/2006 which came into effect on 28th July 2008.
| Quote: |
| Under new European law, if you are disabled or have difficulty moving around you have rights to assistance when you fly to and from Europe. |
source
The disabled have the same right to travel as the more able bodied.
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Sage, sorry, where in the regulations does it say that 9 blind passengers must be carried simultaneously in one 737? A core of the DDDA is what is reasonable. Hazarding 9 people and other passengers in the even of an emergency does not seem reasonable. I think the captain would have been in breech of a duty of care had he flown with them. Not so?
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| Sage wrote: |
| ....The disabled have the same right to travel as the more able bodied.... |
I have travelled a lot with a wheelchair passenger. Would that your statement was correct. In practical terms it is not, nor would it be reasonable for it to be so. For example, disabled space on a train, and assistance to get on and off, has to be booked in advance.
You seem determined to hound your case against Ryanair with cases that do not stand up to inspection. is there some grudge you are not telling us about?
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| achilles wrote: |
You seem determined to hound your case against Ryanair with cases that do not stand up to inspection. is there some grudge you are not telling us about? |
Hound, that's a bit strong. I quoted an article, with sources, in response to a comment about treating customers fairly, in what way do they not stand up to inspection? In all cases compensation (some through the courts) or an appology were issued by Ryanair. The blind party in question had contacted Ryanair prior to booking to inform them about the party's disabilities. How about actually reading the articles before making spurious allegations.
I don't like the way Ryanair treat customers, I have no grudge and I accept that people have a choice whether to fly with them or not.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
I go to my local pizza shop & buy a basic pizza for about £5, then i add on a couple of extra toppings at 65p each, then order a portion of chips at £1.60 and a can of coke at 75p = £8.65 delivery also costs extra.
What is the differance between my pizza shop and Ryan air offering a cheap price and lots of add ons? |
you would, however, expect to get a pizza base, tomato sauce and cheese (assuming you aren't utterly poncey and going for a creamy pizza but I digress...) - i think people's issue with ryanair is that they think they are getting a pizza but have to pay extra for the cheese
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I think that the people who have issues with Ryanair are naive.
"Oh noes! A business is being ruthless! Why don't they play nice and lose money!?"
"I'm paying a whole 80 quid for a flight when it said 60 quid, this is an outrage! But I'm going to keep flying with them because they're the cheapest out there."
"Their plane was 30 seconds late, this is a farce!"
"The lady didn't smile at me, I'm sueing them!"
Blaa blaaa blaaa.
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FAQ
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