 Poster: A snowHead
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I tend to think about how much vertical I have done - 6000m in a day is pretty good going for me in off piste conditions
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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saikee,
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| PDS is because it has a lot of drag lifts |
- you are clearly out of date.
I expect it does include the lift distance though. And a quick look at viamichelin suggests probably more like 40-50 kms for the "classic" circuit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Murdoch,
I agree my comment isn't fair for the French side but many snowheads do complained about the drag lifts in the Swiss side and that was my experience but I haven't gone back to the Swiss side after Christmas 2004.
Arno,
On couple of chairlifts I checked the gradient seems to be around 21 degrees and the skiing distance is about twice the chairlift length. On that basis an average skier skiing between 20 to 30km distance would be dragged by 10 to 15km by the chairlifts and a 21 degree angle will give a vertical drop of between 3.6 to 5.4km. Able to do it in offpiste condition puts you in good skier category and so your 6km vertical reflects it.
My guess is many beginner will be lucky to get 10km skiing distance in a day and 20km is not hard for early intermediates. Pass 30km on an average day should be for a skier able to go any groomed piste in any resort and you obviously go much further than that, based on the information I collected in this thread so far. I have spent one morning going down just one slope full of fresh new snow in nearly zero visibility condition by feeling my way from one red post to another.
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Ive skiied the PDS area for years and reckon 80kms is easily acheived in a day. including lifts, the areas we ski use only one drag lift which is optional (chavanette one) around pre la joux and avoriaz there are express chairs everywhere and xmas/new year had 5 minute qeueing times max. i dont go for the 'tours' although the area is easily linked, i much prefer using avoriaz and pre la joux as they have a great range of fast smooth wide steep and good off-piste. touring can really bore me because it really dictates the day and which runs must be used so you dont take advantage of that run which looked great from the chair.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've used GPS to capture tracks, not been particularly interested in total distance traveled. I can see you could do some cunning data analysis which counts time spent on lifts, time spent in queues, distance skied... This is likely a bit obsessive for the leisure skier but I wonder whether ski domains might seed punters with GPS devices and use the data to improve the lift / piste system. There are probably easier ways of doing this (like the liftie spotting the queue, for example) but it might make an interesting project...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm actually quite shocked at the low milage of travel in a day of alpine skiing. 30km? I can ski that on a x-c ski, without the lift to tow me up the hill!!!
And it would probably be a shorter day than a typical alpine day! I suppose the lift might actually hurts by taking time away from skiing? I was expecting more like around 100km instead...
Either the snowheads are REALLY slacking, or there's somethng wrong with the calculation...
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Well, 30kms for a group of intermediates stopping for a long lunch I'd say.
In a relaxed day with me and my dad we tend to clock up around 60km's fairly easily. But we don't do alot of stopping as you do with larger groups.
Lifts also are quite slow, high speed chairs only doing about 18kph or so.
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| saikee wrote: |
The reason I looked into it is because Sideshow_Bob's post shows skiers/boarders were competing for the biggest accummulated vertical drop achieved in a day. The record hodler's 39km was suggested to be accommpanied with 182kmskied distance. The angle subtended by 39km over a 182km slope is 12.374 degrees or 22% (22 vertical over 100 horizontal). This looks extremely flat to me.
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That is actually pretty average for a red run. I haven't personally come acros a red which is more than 1 in 4 (25%) for the overall average, although there may be some around.
Most blues will be more around 15-18%, while most blacks will be more than 30%. Obviuolsy, these are typical values, not always true.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
I'm actually quite shocked at the low milage of travel in a day of alpine skiing. 30km? I can ski that on a x-c ski, without the lift to tow me up the hill!!!
And it would probably be a shorter day than a typical alpine day! I suppose the lift might actually hurts by taking time away from skiing? I was expecting more like around 100km instead...
Either the snowheads are REALLY slacking, or there's somethng wrong with the calculation... |
No, it sounds pretty close to me.
One day on my trip to Zell am Ziller this year, I went with the Crystal guides From Zell to the Larmachalm restaurant on the Konigsleiten slopes (and back again after lunch). It was a reasonably long day for a meduium sized group, but I'm sure a smaller group of us could have gone a bit further.
On the way back, on the last but one chairlift before getting into the Zell area, one of the guides said his GPS showed we had done 18 miles up to then (including lifts). So that day probably totalled about 25 miles - which probably meant about 15-18 skiing depending on how well his GPS took account of turns within the piste.
And there were a few people in the hotel who had skied more or less the same route. None of them did all that much more.
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The length of a skiing day can change according to the time of the season. The 20 to 30km estimate is for the "average" skier enjoying the exercise rather than setting out to maximize the distance.
It is worthwhile to bear in mind from the Sideshow_Bob's link the 39km accumulate vertical drop with 182km skiing distance is a record for the Saalbach/Hinterglemm resort, possibly skiing the same runs repeatedly in a deliberate effort to clock up the highest mileage. Thus a keen skier, taking his/her time to enjoy the resort and has a decent lunch, may not ski as much distance.
Thus if you can ski longer distance than 30km "everyday" then it is an indication of your ability. People who deliberately set out to maximise the distance has achieved more than 180km so I suppose that is about the upper limit for the good skiers going to a resort just to enjoy skiing and not to smash the record.
I could be wrong but it appears to me the majority of the skiers in the Alps do not go around a resort at a break-neck speed. Most have to slow down to let the slower members to catch up. Thus an experienced lone skier or a group of evenly matched good skiers can significantly exceed the average distance of 30km everyday. Like my earlier post my estimate for an average skier does only 10 runs in the morning and another 10 after the lunch. Thus if a skier manages 40 runs he/she can probably double the average distance.
On the other hand if a skier feels apprehensive about black or red slopes and has to slow down to cope with them then he/she would be at the lower end of the average skiing distance of around 20km.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| saikee wrote: |
The length of a skiing day can change according to the time of the season. The 20 to 30km estimate is for the "average" skier enjoying the exercise rather than setting out to maximize the distance.
It is worthwhile to bear in mind from the Sideshow_Bob's link the 39km accumulate vertical drop with 182km skiing distance is a record for the Saalbach/Hinterglemm resort, possibly skiing the same runs repeatedly in a deliberate effort to clock up the highest mileage. Thus a keen skier, taking his/her time to enjoy the resort and has a decent lunch, may not ski as much distance.
Thus if you can ski longer distance than 30km "everyday" then it is an indication of your ability. People who deliberately set out to maximise the distance has achieved more than 180km so I suppose that is about the upper limit for the good skiers going to a resort just to enjoy skiing and not to smash the record.
I could be wrong but it appears to me the majority of the skiers in the Alps do not go around a resort at a break-neck speed. Most have to slow down to let the slower members to catch up. Thus an experienced lone skier or a group of evenly matched good skiers can significantly exceed the average distance of 30km everyday. Like my earlier post my estimate for an average skier does only 10 runs in the morning and another 10 after the lunch. Thus if a skier manages 40 runs he/she can probably double the average distance.
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The world record for number of different lifts used in one day skiing was set earlier this season in Japan (reported on here), and was 42 lifts.
So no skier in a normal days skiing is likley to manage 40 runs unless they are doing the same (shortish) run over and over again.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowball wrote: |
| All the zig-zagging many people do must nearly double the fall-line distance. I wonder how those toys deal with that - does it ignore it or include it. |
Most GPS receivers drop a "breadcrumb" every few seconds if you're travelling in a straight line (on a motorway for example), but they also drop one if there is a significant change in direction. So, yes, they do account for zig-zagging.
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You know it makes sense.
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Skied 68km of off-piste decent in five hours non stop. Clever system did not include uplift as this could be deleted from graphs ín package
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You are still not taking into consideration skiers turning and traversing?
I agree with vertical being a good measure as the steeper/ more vertical, the more strenuous.
For the record, what is wrong with preferring somewhere with more km of piste? Assume you are not going off-piste without guide so that limits your off-piste time. Take somewhere like Flaine. You could do Gers bowl (onyx piste) from dawn to dusk, I agree. But that is often closed for days at a time. I like to plan my ski routes in such a way as to minimize time in queues/lifts etc. After 2 days of continuous skiing on piste in Flaine with Gers bowl closed I would be getting bored. That's when you either hire a guide, or just head over to Grand Massif, and all the variety of skiing over there. Thus the extra mileage of GM has enhanced my holiday, and reinforced by choice of a "high mileage" resort
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Poster: A snowHead
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ajdetpwm, without taxi that would be pretty good  My longest one (at least that I kept gps track of it) is 119km, 14600 vertical meters. This is based on GPS but it doesn't differ much from data on Skiline. But this is distance on piste and distance on lifts all together.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The current 3V Escapade is 15,670m vertical (as measured by the lift company) if done in a day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| The current 3V Escapade is 15,670m vertical (as measured by the lift company) if done in a day. |
What would it be if done in two days?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A lot more unless you drove between valleys because you'd have to duplicate some of it! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For the fun of it, on my last day skiing (on my own) at Iscghl the other week, I decided to try to use all the chairlifts. I ignored gondolas other than where needed to get up or back up the hill and didn't use T-bars or pomas. Managed it by about 2pm, but skiied on till after 4pm.
According to the ski tracks app, that day I did 33 runs:
the distance I covered skiing was 44.5 miles (total distance including lifts was 79.5 miles);
the vertical distance skiied was 41413 ft (total vertical was 81294 ft).
That compares with 32 miles the previous day skiing with friends (with 25285 feet of vertical), 26.4 miles the day before that (with 21,000 vertical).
Now I don't know how accurate Ski Tracks is, but 20 - 30 miles looks like a reasonable average while skiing in a group, with stops on the way down and at lifts while waiting for others to catch up. Skiing on one's own with no stopping clearly allows one to cover a far greater distance.
I leave it to you to convert those into Km and M !
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