Keep Fit prep for this season

A snowHead

MedX are beautifully engineered pieces but just too expensive for most gyms. Unfortunatley my local gym has mostly Hammer equipment which does not work well for me. I use free weights.

It took Kieser a long time in the UK before they opened a second facility. Their utilitarian club design is not very appealing to the traditional gym user who expects lots of the usual features such as tons of CV equipment, yogalates classes, sauna, bar etc. They should save all that money and spend it on MEdX Wink

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Manda, Rowing forms the first part of my gym routine (10 - 15 mins 2.00 mins/500m at about 30 rpm) - I'd be interested in the technique guide if you could post. I'd like to know if I'm getting the most out of the workout.

Cheers

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Manda, I'd like to see a guide too. I have kept off the rower as I had a small reaction when doing my rehab for ACL recon on my right knee. I've never tried it since, and have always wondered what sort of stresses it puts through the knees. Mine are now OK but i don't want to tempt fate.

Regards
Bod.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

marc gledhill, you are doing what is frequently taught in gyms but I consider that there are a lot of things which are debateable about this protocol.

Fast - firstly any fast movement, especially when loaded with extra weights, is more likely to be the cause of an injury. If the movement is done with perfect form it should be alright unless you get unlucky; few people can guarantee to use perfect form. Any problems for whatever reason will usually lead to injury as by the time you realise that there is a problem it is too late as the fast movement has already taken you deeper into the problem.

Fast - secondly fast does not overload the muscle through the range of motion. Fast implies an explosive start which generates enough momentum in the weights that the subsequent movement is not fully loading the muscle. You should move the weights at such a speed that if you stop your effort the weights stop immediately - hence the slow controlled movement; safer and more effective anyway.

Multiple sets - the muscle increases its capability in response to an overload. Once the muscle has been overloaded, further overload to the same point has no added benefit. So if you do your first set to maximum overload (failure) there is no point in doing more sets. If your first set does not go to maximum overload, the second set merely repeats what you have alredy done in the first set as the muscle fibre firing sequence reverts to the original fibres which have recovered. There is no research that I have seen which proves a better result from multiple sets; it is just an exercise habit and it takes longer and it stresses the body more.

If you do a slow controlled movement for the first time, it would be advisable to reduce the weight by about 25% initially but as you get used to the movement you will soon be able to increase the weight and will soon be back to the original weight.

It is important that you keep the muscle loaded until failure and that this should be reached within two minutes - use whatever weight it takes to fit these parameters. No locking out, no cheating, no resting at the end of a rep - keep the load continuous and maintain good form.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Caspar, fine if this works for you. You represent the traditional skier who does a lot of other physical activities all the year round and all such people, skiers or not, are about 5% of the population.

It is the other 95% of the population, which includes some skiers, that we are trying to help with suggestions. For some people other physical activities such as swimming or cycling are not fun or they do not have time to indulge. For these people, a form of exercise which can take as little as 20 or 30 minutes a week could be very useful.

Exercise is simple and need not be as complicated as it is often shown. It takes about 60 minutes to show someone what to do.

Caspar, if you did just 20 minutes of proper high intensity strength training a week you would enjoy your skiing, mountain biking and running even more. Now 20 minutes is hardly a lot of time.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Obviously I'm a wuss but I've started this 3x /week for core strength: http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/core1.html

And I do 20mins running 1-2 times a week.

I also practice falling over at the dry slope for balance Smile

(It hurts your thumbs)

I'm thinking of building a wobble board since balance strength seems to be pretty important...

After all it is free

one more vote for Manda's rowing workshop. Cheers.

John Wells,

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

john wells,

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

I've just had my pre season work-out, 2 weeks in La Rosiere buliding new steps alongside our chalet! We must have moved about 4-5 tonnes of stones from the mountain, loaded them into our trailer, unloaded them and them carried them up and down a 30 degree slope. It's had a significant impact on Masque, he's lost 3 belt sizes despite keeping up his beer-monster drinking.

snow reports

Well, I've made it to my Pilates class tonight after re-joining the gym after a 18 month gap. Surprisingly, I managed quite well, but I did go twice weekly for about 3 years before stopping. I even managed an advanced level movement!!!! No doubt my stomach will feel like i've been punched tomorrow. I also went on the bike in the gym for 10 mins, but got so bored I went to the class instead.

Having skied for the first time last year and been somewhat wrecked by it, i was provoked to join a gym and am building up for next years ski. Anyhow, without knowing anything about skiing, I do know that in most any sport the most important thing is all round fitness. More often than not, people go building up muscles thinking that is the way to go, the reality being that they are not fit enough to actually use the muscles they originally had, letalone any new ones they may build. So from my position as an average Joe, I almost exclusively concentrate on cardio stuff. Maybe when I start bolting down double blacks, then I will add some weights in there as well!

Ad

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Snowy, I do try to be careful, I warm up for 15 mins first and then stretch before getting stuck in. I also build the weight up gradually over a number of weeks.

A snowHead

Snowy, sorry but on the contrary, you can build up your muscles as fast as your body is capable without pulling anything as long as you do slow controlled movements with good form. It is the fast movements that tear things.
marc gledhill, stretching before exercise is not necessary - a good warm up is important if you are going to do any fast movements. Stretching after exercise is the beneficial one.
buns, again, sorry but this is the wrong way around. The cardio-vascular ability is dependant on the capability of the blood to transport the oxygen and CO2 and the capability of the muscles to utilise the oxygen. If you have little muscle the limiting factor is the muscle. Once you have decent muscle, the limiting factor is the transport system. What you are stating is only true if you already have adequate muscle, which might well be true of many sports people.

Sorry guys but you are illustrating the confusion which exists about exercise.

A snowHead

john, i think you are adding to the confusion(obviously without intent).when you talk about the muscle and muscle growth it put out images of people trying to be the size of Arnie. most of my muscle has been built via cardio-vascular training with very little use of weights . i can happily ski 1st lift to last lift all week without wishing that i had done a special programme before hand. i go to the gym maybe twice a week and use the crosstrainers and treadmills(which i use to build endurance) and i cycle and walk when i can at weekends or maybe i'm just lucky that my body lets me get away with it

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'd ecommend Pilates to all of you to fit in to your routine. It is excellent for improving your balance on your skis.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

John,

From my perspective I have made an assumption. I am in my twenties as are most people I know who would be interested in this sort of thing..... it is assumed that the regime I refer to isnt being carried out by a mr muscle lookalike! Alot of the people at the gym adhere to the opposite of my rule..... they are all muscles but the concept of cardio type stamina (ie. running across the car park) is foreign!

Ad

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

mistermouse, I'll try to explain - if you are doing endurance type training on cross trainers and treadmills you are training primarily anaerobically and strength training your type IIa (Fast Oxidative Glycolytic) muscle fibres. There is also a degree of training of your type I (Slow Oxidative) muscle fibres and your type IIx, which are usually called type IIb, (Fast Glycolytic) muscle fibres. Although this is frequently called cardio-vascular training for ease of explanation, you are training your muscles more than you are training your heart or lungs - heart and lungs are just trying to catch up.

This is perfectly acceptable training and works very well. It is more time consuming, stresses the body more, is more prone to injury and is less efficient than using weights initially to train your muscles and then refining your ability by doing exactly this type of cardio-vascular training for a relatively short time.

Also it is not whole body training and encourages imbalances between the muscle groups. It would be better in this respect if you added rowing.

You'll need to Register first of course.

buns, sounds like the muscleheads at your gym are would be body builders who train incorrectly. In the mid 70's the training of some fit young men at West Point were used in an experiment, comparing one group who solely trained with weights (high intensity, one set to failure) and another group who did traditional army mixed strength and cardio-vascular training. At the end of the experiment the group who had only trained with weights improved their two mile run time by more than the other group.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

John Wells,

After all it is free

p.s john i also do rowing and try to include some core exercises
i agree with you on the slow movement with good form thing, i watch to many people trying to pull the weights as fast as they can and swinging their bodies around in the process,makes me cringe

Rowing workshop? Get yerself down to Southampton and I can have you all skilled up by the end of the week. Toofy Grin

The technique's a little difficult to describe in writting, but I'll do my best:
(settle in for a long read....)

NB - this is only a rough guide to rowing technique. Rowing does place a lot of pressure on the legs and connective tissue (and, if done excessively or incorrectly, can agrivate existing joint conditions). Therefore if you have any concerns at all about your joints or muscles discuss it first with your GP!!!! You have been warned.

Right. Find yourself a sturdy rowing machine.

1. Sit on the seat, feet on the footplate, with legs straight and knees flat. Bring handle to nipples (yours).
2. Sit up straight.
This position is "backstops"

For the next few steps, keep your legs straight and your knees flat!!!!!
3. Keeping your back and hips stationary, push your hands out as far as they will go, keeping them level with the height you started from.

Pause. Think about how this position feels.

4. Swing forwards from the hips, keeping your arms outstretched and your hand-height steady. You're aiming for no more than a 45degree angle.

Pause again. Have a think.

For steps 5 and 6, don't drop your arm or hand height! Think about keeping your body and head up tall.
5. Slide your bum sloooooowly up as far as you can, but don't force the last little bit.
This is the "catch" position. Keep your hand height!!!!!

Pause It's difficult, your body all scrunched up, but just pause and feel how it feels.

You're now going to start the "drive".
6. Still keeping your arms out straight, push down through your feet onto the footplate - the whole of the effort comes from your thighs. You're trying to push the footplate away from you, and you should feel as if your bum is nearly going to lift off the seat (it won't). You'll probably feel a mild hanging feeling through your upper body until your thighs build up enough pressure to push your entire body back down the slide.

7. As soon as your hands are above your knees, draw your hands back into to your chest. It's a smooth draw, not a yank. Your elbows should travel past your chest as your hands hit your chest. You might need to incorporate a bit of a swing with your upper body, but by the time you're at backstops you're aiming to have your back relatively straight up and down at right angles to your legs.

Keep slowly repeating each of steps 1 through 7 as separate stages, pausing in between each stage before moving on to the next. Once you feel like you've got the hang of it (minimum of 10mins) then start eliminating the pause between each stage, so that there's one smooth movement throughout.

This will help you visualise what's supposed to happen.

Main points:

The drive comes from the thighs, down the knees and feet into the foot plate. Any arm action is essentially an "afterthought". If anything other than your thighs hurt, then you're doing something wrong!!

It's important to maintain steady arm/hand height throughout. Particularly at the catch novices have a tendency to drop their hands down to their feet.

Once you've got the technique in hand, the timing is everything. The slide up from backstop to catch is the recovery period, and the recovery period should take at least twice as long as the drive. If you count "1" during the drive, then the slide back up should take NO LESS than a count of "2, 3". In order to achieve this you will have to actively control the speed at which you allow your bum to come back up the slide.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Manda, Very, very useful. Thanks a lot snowHead

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

john wells,
where is your club - IF I have time to look into this (at present i am just riding my bike, running up the stairs and astanga every 3 days or so) before I go on - ooh !- 18th December ... ?

snow reports

poma, I am wary of commenting as it could be construed as advertising which is not what this forum is about - admin, edit or delete if you want.

Welsh Back Squash & Health Club in the city centre and The Downs Club at the top of Whiteladies Road..

18th December !! leaving it seriously late !

Seems OK to me, a direct answer to a direct question. (Trust the cheque to admin is in the post Wink

)

You know it makes sense.

Helen Beaumont,

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Boardski, it improves both core strength and flexibilty, and also posture, meaning your weight is distributed more centrally. Even 30-something couch potatoes who've eaten all the pies can try it. You just start at a basic level. Each set of excercises is practised at a variety of levels., It'll take inches off your waistline. I'm off to another class Fri am, but will try and fit in some aerobic exercise, possibly swimming in between now and then. I'm told it's excellent for golfers and squash players as it re-balances their bodies, as they tend to favour one side.

A snowHead

Helen Beaumont, can it be leaned from a book my sister is bringing one she has or is dangerous, I'm not going to end up tied in knots or with a dislocated shoulder am I Puzzled

A snowHead

john wells, hells teeth, you didn't tell me how much it hurts! Just back from the gym where I went for a 25% reduction in weight and just kept going until I was incapable of doing another rep. At times I sounded like I was giving birth. Shocked

Strange though; on some equipment I could get up to 50, or so, slow reps whilst on others I could only get about 20 done. Still too much weight?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

marc gledhill, good one. With strength training I'm afraid that the old adage is only too true - no pain, no gain (or at least, little gain) - this really applies to endurance training and cardio training also. The modern fitness industry is trying to get away from this and into entertainment but you cann't avoid this fact of life I'm afraid.

Stick with slow reps - breath quickly and shallowly, if you are yelling it halts your breathing pattern - try to relax all the rest of your body other than the muscles you are specifically working on, this includes relaxing your face - put the weight back up again !

If you can manage 20 to 50 reps the weight is too small, for slow reps which take 10 to 20 seconds each to perform depending on the execise, you are looking at 6 to 12 reps to failure; total set time a maximum of 120 seconds. At a guess, I would say that the weight you were using before was also too small for that faster protocol which means that if you persevere you will make gains way beyond your previous efforts.

The pain is probably caused by a build up of metabolytes, although the scientists are not too sure, and will become more tolerable as you practise. Don't forget the pain does not last very long and is not very frequent. Also if you managed 50 reps the pain would have lasted much longer than necessary. (Please don't anyone tell me that the pain is due to a build up of lactic acid - it is almost certainly is not - one of the nearly universally held myths about exercise and I have only just found this out)

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Russell, a video may be better than a book, but a trained instructor will ensure that you are in the correct position whilst doing the movements. I do have a book myself, but more as reference for the movements I do in class than anything else.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

john wells, Oh, I didn't know about 10/20 seconds per rep, I was running at about 6 seconds which is a fair bit slower than my usual 2 seconds - but obviously not slow enough.

Oh well, cycling and running tomorrow so it'll be next week before I have another bash.

You'll need to Register first of course.

marc gledhill, 6 seconds is at the faster end of a Nautilus protocol and is ok - 4 seconds up and 2 seconds down. Try for failure between 8 and 12 reps - if you get to 12 or more increase the weights next time - once you are in a stable pattern, this increase would be about 4%. An alternative is to slightly increase the weight everytime if possible, this needs tiny add-on weights of only a few ounces as intermediate weight increases.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

If you are going for Xmas it's too late to do much about your fitness. But if you are going later in the season this advice from Graham Bell on BBC Sports Academy might help.

After all it is free

kuwait_ian, excuse my comments, but today I'm a bit grumpy.
As I have said many times before, all this stuff about exercise and skiing is twaddle.
It is a typical example of taking evidence from one group (athletes) and assuming it is true for another group (recreational skiers).
1. As far as I know (maybe Graham Bell will correct me) there is no evidence that increased exercise before skiing is of any benefit.
2. Exercise is not without it's own dangers. It can cause injury [ (1) , (2) ]. It can cause death! [ (3) , (4) ]
3. We are all different. "The limitations of an exercise program should be customized for each individual, not society as a whole" [ (5) ].
4. Discussion of this subject often includes phrases such as "skiing all day". Very few people actually ski all day. Most guys I know spent most of the time not skiing. They chat, they are having yet another coffee break, they are having a long lunch. And then there is all that time on the lifts (not forgetting waiting for ages in the queue beforehand).
5. And most guys I know just amble round the piste anyway - no way would I call what they do exercise.
6. I wonder if sudden bursts of exercise in an otherwise sedentary individual is not more damaging than no exercise at all. A pre-skiing burst might give us a false sense of fitness and cause us to to try things outside our ability. No evidence to back this up, and would be a difficult trial to conduct.

I think we should change the emphasis from pre-ski-conditioning to all-year-round-regular-exercise.
Two little thoughts for you.
"He who can't find the time to exercise will one day have to find the time to be ill" (anon.)
and
"Exercise is not just for Christmas, it is for life" Literally. (jonpim)

Jonpim, I could tell from some of last night's posts you're not your normal self. Cheer up. Actually, I'm with you - all year round fitness is the answer. But for those who don't ....... maybe some of Graham's advice is useful. Everything in moderation.
And by the way I used to be one of these guys who every time they thought of exercise laid down until the feeling went away. Laughing

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Jonpin, I agree that all year exercise is preferable for all sorts of reasons, and most of the people who frequent this forum are keen enough to know that a modicum of fitness will increase your enjoyment of the sport. My exercise regime is two fold, firstly to allow me to ski within myself without feeling the after effects of a "Days Skiing", so no sore muscles, being stiff the next day etc. I expect my thighs to burn after a long run, but I want them to recover sufficiently on the next lift so I can do it again. Secondly I have twice busted my right ACL, so building up Quads and Hamstrings to support my knees allows me to enjoy my skiing more.
If I was not as fit or strong then I would not be able to enjoy myself as much as I would be restricted in the way I skied. I could of course stop remaining fit but would have to alter my skiing style to compensate. So whilst I agree with the sentiment of your post I don't this it would practically work for me.

Help!!

Keep Fit prep for this season

snowHeads Forum Index >>> Ski Fitness, Exercise, Injury and Rehab