Saalbach and Zell am See connection

A snowHead

Brownbear101,

What is the source of your information (I just checked, it's not April 1st)? Are there any plans showing the proposed link? I had always thought that Saalbach was reluctant to do this.

It would be brilliant if this happens but I would have thought the cost would be huge. I wait with bated breath!!!!

A snowHead

Welcome Brownbear101!

From what I have read (in German) in the alpinforum.com Forum, I understood that the ideas presently are only to open up a run down from the Schmittenhöhe/Sonnkogel to the Glemmtal for Freeriders and Variant skiers, i.e. unprepared off-piste. There's a map showing the route in the alpinforum. That would still mean that you would have to take the bus back to Zell. However, maybe in the longer term they are thinking of a return lift too.

The St. Anton-Kappl link is still at the planning stage, I think. According to this report in the Tiroler Tageszeitung (in German) the details have just been handed in to the authorities. But it is true that ski areas are looking for ways to expand their piste kilometres (I'm not sure it's always an improvement). It would suit me better if they linked Saalbach-Hinterglemm with Fieberbrunn, a plan that is also dreamt of Very Happy

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Forgot - For Saalbach-Hinterglemm fans, I meant to add a picture showing the work on the new Wetterkreuz chairlift (taken today from the path up to the Hochhörndler Hut in Fieberbrunn). On the ridge to the right is the Reiterkogel-Ost chairlift.

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espri, I see that the new chair ascends the ridge from the opposite side from the old T-bar - makes sense obviously in view of the new/extended reservoir.
On the subject of future links, whether to Zell or Fieberbrunn, do you think it likely to lead to increased congestion for S-H, especially in late season or when snow is poor, with little compensating benefit?

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To be honest, I'm not sure that the links would make all that much difference to the crowds. It could well be that the links might be closed towards the end of the season, if they use lower slopes which lose snow early. I think it is largely, as Brownbear101 suggested, a marketing ploy. Sounds nice on paper but who would use it all? Indeed, it could also spread the crowds out. That's where I worry about Fieberbrunn, which might become busier with skiers from Munich, etc., entering the circus there rather than driving on to Leogang (which will have its second gondola next year perhaps).

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ORF (Austrian television) and the Salzburger Nachrichten have reported today (in German) on the developments in Zell am See and Saalbach/Hinterglemm. They said that the environmental authority would not object to plans for the lift from Viehofen to the Schmittenhöhe, to link Zell am See with the Glemmtal. To complete the circuit there would also be a lift from Viehofen up to the Asitz, presumably linking to the other Saalbach and Leogang lifts there. The chairman of the Schmittenhöhe lift company (Zell am See) again mentioned re-activating the run from the Sonnkogel down to Viehofen.

The link to Fieberbrunn is also mentioned, though it seems there is less enthusiasm for this from the Saalbach/Hinterglemm side even though the necessary investment has now been made in Fieberbrunn.

No timescale is mentioned for either development although a decision in principle may be taken soon.

The original television report (also in German) is also available for viewing (in the section Ski-Kooperationen).

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espri, If I remember rightly, that run from the Asitz down to Viehhofen is not only low and south-facing, but it doesn't have snow-making, which is why is tends to be closed when snow is poor and late in the season. It now seems likely that snow cannons will be installed on it. Excuse me while I see if there is any property going cheap in Viehhofen!

After all it is free

I've never skied the run down from the Asitz to Viehofen, there being no (ski) way back at present. Indeed, I've never even skied all the way down the Schönleiten because, as you say, the conditions sometimes are poor lower down. However, I would agree that they will probably install snow-making equipment if the lift is built, though I imagine that would need a new reservoir (there was talk about one near the Polten lift, I think).

It's one of our favourite runs, despite the necessity to catch the ski bus (albeit quite frequent and only a short ride) back up to the Schoenleitenbahn. It's usually very quiet with some good, long stretches and you can really rattle down it; in fresh snow it's sublime. The Hecherhuette, about two thirds of the way down, is very good - , rustic, friendly, off the beaten track (for the time being at least!) and renowned for serving the best steaks and gulasch soup in the valley.
The Abfahrt all the way down to the Schoenleitenbahn bottom station is also a delightful run. Both of these runs are excellent for most of the season but, being relatively low and exposed to the sun, start to suffer during March, and obviously they tend to be the first to be closed in late season. Well worth doing earlier on though.

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OK - must try them Smile

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Sunday Times 25.11.12 reports that a new piste will connect Zell am See to Saalbach by the winter of 2014. They do not quote a source for this information.

snow reports

Brownbear101, Now that's what I call a development!

I was on a season out in Saalbach last year and was told of this. However no one would confirm it! From the backside of the Schattberg "Saalbach" Zell is very close, and you can see the odd lift on the backside near viehofen. I can see this could be fairly easy to achieve just needs a new uplift back to zell as would join Saalbach at the Schoenleiten bahn at the end of the 7km or Viehofen itself. The link to Fieberbrunn is something to get excited about! it took me an hour and a half to get around there by car but from Langau you can litrally ski over the back! Im off to avoriaz this winter as i was priced out of Saalbach for the high season, fingers crossed i can grab a last min deal at some point. I love that place!

You know it makes sense.

I was on a season out in Saalbach last year and was told of this. However no one would confirm it! From the backside of the Schattberg "Saalbach" Zell is very close, and you can see the odd lift on the backside near viehofen. I can see this could be fairly easy to achieve just needs a new uplift back to zell as would join Saalbach at the Schoenleiten bahn at the end of the 7km or Viehofen itself. The link to Fieberbrunn is something to get excited about! it took me an hour and a half to get around there by car but from Langau you can litrally ski over the back! Im off to avoriaz this winter as i was priced out of Saalbach for the high season, fingers crossed i can grab a last min deal at some point. I love that place!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

derStandard.at 15/10/2012 (translation by Google)

In a next step, the ski areas are growing closer together via lift connections. "We are looking at a variant of departure for Viehhofen to allow our guests to a port Glemmtal" said Erich Egger, CEO of Schmittenhöhebahn AG. The lifts in Saalbach-Hinterglemm and Schmittenhöhebahn think Viehhofen to a common base station including parking. A timetable for the implementation Egger did not mention the negative experiences with the extension of the Schmittenhöhe towards Piesendorf. The project, approved by the Salzburg authorities "Hochsonnberg" was rejected in June by the Senate Environment in Vienna. "We have collected in mid-July, however appeal to the Administrative Court," said Egger. With a decision of the Administrative Court of the mountain railway boss anticipates in the earliest one year.

A snowHead

Talking to the hotel owner when we were there at New Year. The plan is apparently to link the two areas with 2 cable cars and one chairlift. The idea is to create long runs to connect the resorts rather than a number of shorter runs. The hope being that people will spend longer on the pistes rather than in the queues. The iniital piste areas will be ready for next season (2013-14) but the necessary cable cars wouldn't be in place until the season after (2014-15).

All of this is dependent on getting the necessary approvals from teh planning authorities however.

A snowHead

Skied Zell last week. Ski instructor, a local guy, said link will be built in next 2-3 years. He seemed quite sure about this - but I have seen no furhter info.

Has anyone seen anything to support his view?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

zellmaniac, you hear things like that from locals with a vested interest in such links all the time. Unfortunately the area is covered not only by the usual environmental protection issues, part of it is in the Hohentauern National Park, so the restrictions are even greater. Look at how the Piesendorf link has been permitted/blocked/permitted, etc. The local (and not so local activists) environmental protectionists have successfully managed to stymie that development.

I think it may well take place eventually, but 2 - 3 years is a pretty standard guesstimate that always gets bandied around. They just don't know or maybe say, WHICH 2 to 3 years! The cable link between the Graffenberg and Griesskareck mountains in Wagrain is a classic example. I first visited this area in the mid 1980s and they were saying then the link would be built in the next "2/3 years". Well they will finally open it in time for next season, a good 20+ years since I first heard of it! Laughing

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Samerberg Sue,

My instrutor was in his seventies(!! - and what a skier) and I'm sure had no monetary interests - I think he was genuinely enthusiastic about the propect of linking the resorts.

However I think you're right to say don't count your chickens! I guess we'll only know it's happening when construction starts!

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zellmaniac, by vested interest I was not thinking money! Laughing

I think they will be happy if more comes into the area but it is not a primary consideration.

It is often a dream/hope that their village/town/resort will become world renown and they actually have immense pride in their reputation. I find it reflected in the incredibly warm welcome you get each time you return to a hotel or ski hire etc. They do seem genuinely pleased that you liked their resort enough to come back. I'm now greeted by name by people in and around my favourite areas of Ski Amadé which is rather nice. snowHead

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An Interesting chat with what appeared to be a Saalbach Local on the lift yesterday was that the link to Zell am See was a 30 year old conversation and still is so not much progress on this at the moment, BUT what seems to be more of a likely thing to happen will be a link to the very nearby resort of Fieberbrunn adding approx 60 km to the area. He was talking of a timescale of about 2-3 years from now. He suggested it would probably be more beneficial for Fieberbrunn as they would gain an extra 200 km's and Saalbach would gain more crowds, however he said they would also gain access to a great freeride area in Fieberbrunn.

Now consider this that this link was done and then a link to Zell and you would have a very large linked area indeed, though if you'd be able to ski it in a week would be the question.

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There has been more talk of the Fieberbrunn-Hinterglemm link recently. At a seminar about the future in the Pillerseetal, the boss of the Fieberbrunn chairlifts said that requests for planning permission could be made this year and building of the link (between the bottom stations of the Reckmoos Süd gondola on the Fieberbrunn side and the Reiter Ost chairlift in Hinterglemm, I think) might start in 2015. There is a report (in German) here.

After all it is free

Recent reports here and here (in German) confirm that the plan to build a lift linking Fieberbrunn and Hinterglemm is going ahead, though it looks like it will be two to three years before the lift is there. "Bigger is better" is the motto! No mention this time of the link between Saalbach and Zell am See.

Since it was mentioned above, I can also report that I heard that the plan for a second gondola in Leogang has been delayed because of disagreement with local landowners.

Whats Leogang like as a starting point and base for Saalbach?

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Fine, the two-stage gondola gets you up quickly and then two chair lifts get you over to the Saalbach sector. The homeward piste to Leogang down the Asitz is always an enjoyable experience, although, coming back from Saalbach, you do have to be careful to get to the vital connecting Polten chair lift by 4.15pm (or be 'stranded' in the wrong valley). Two of the best restaurants, the Alte Schmiede and the Asitz Braeu are at the top of the Leogang gondola.
The Leogang slopes are predominantly north-facing, so the snow is invariably good over there. During the early part of the season it doesn't get much sun, so, for example, the Leogang nursery slopes tend to be relatively cold and gloomy in January, but that wouldn't bother anyone if they were heading over to the sunny side every day.
Possible negatives are the low-key après, compared to Saalbach and Hinterglemm (although it does have the Kraller Alm), and the fact that it's out on a limb, at a tangent from the main Ski Circus (a little like Les Gets in the Portes de Soleil), but it doesn't take long for a competent skier to get over to the main area. A slow early intermediate may however struggle to explore the far reaches of the area beyond Hinterglemm.
On the whole though, Leogang is an excellent 'back door' into the Ski Circus, as we discovered in the 1980s, when we used it as a base 4 years running, and when the uphill transport consisted of a slow, two-stage, chair, followed by a series of T-bars. My memories are all fond ones, except for the nerve-wracking experience of rushing for the Polten Lift at the end of the day, with a party of skiers of varying abilities, some of whom would keep falling over, despite (or perhaps because of) time being of the essence,

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ORF (Austrian television) reports here (in German) that the plans for a link between the Saalbach area (Viehhofen) and the Zell am See area (on the Schmittenhöhe) are likely to go ahead but don't yet specify any time scale (the plan doesn't have official approval yet).

A possible link from Viehhofen to the Asitz (above Leogang and Saalbach on the north side of the Glemmtal) is also mentioned, probably coming after the Schmitten link (though I would think it would be the more useful of the two new lifts). That would remove the need for the bus trip from Viehhofen to Saalbach.

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espri, Useful, but on the other hand it would be the ruination of that gloriously peaceful and uncrowded run!

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

My fear is that, instead of being a favourite run of the select minority who don't mind a 10 minute bus journey up to the Schoenleitenbahn, it might (if there were a lift up from Viehhofen) become everybody's favourite!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You may be right. I must admit I have only skied it once and, being lazy, am somewhat put off by the return bus ride and the wait for it. If the lift to the Schmittenhöhe is also there, it would change the character of the run, for there would be groups going back and forward between the two areas. I have the same worries about the link Fieberbrunn-Hinterglemm. But it looks as though both links will come in the next few years.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

We normally stay in Viehhofen so we have enjoyed the long piste down to the village a number of times. The Gulasch soup at the Hecherhutte is fantastic.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

[quote="Tatman's Tours"]

After all it is free

Here there is a more detailed explanation (in German) of the problem that has arisen with the plan to build a second gondola from Leogang onto the Asitz (linking to Saalbach-Hinterglemm). Some of the local farmers want to keep grazing their cattle in the forest and oppose a proposed swap of grazing rights which would allow the lift and piste to be built (because the alternative grazing rights wouldn't have been legally registered). However, discussions to find a solution are continuing.

The Saalforst mentioned in the article is an area of forests in the Pinzgau area of Salzburger Land which is property of the Bavarian government. This arose through the forests previously having been used to provide fuel for the salt mines at Bad Reichenhall.

espri, Presumably this proposed gondola would provide a short cut over to the Saalbach sector, which some people might feel isn't really a high priority, compared with other potential improvements to the lift system. However if an additional piste is part of the plan, it becomes more interesting. (I realise that I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone who is travelling in the direction of Leogang and back again, rather than vice versa). I find it surprising that the Poltenlift continues as an old-fashioned, three-seater chair; also that it doesn't apparently have much of a queue problem, considering that it's an essential link in getting over to Leogang.
Incidentally I didn't realise that cattle graze in forests Shock

From what I've seen they do their grazing on the pistes during summer.

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I think the main purpose of the new lift was to spread the crowds and thus reduce the queues for the current Asitzbahn at busy times (though I've never found them that bad). There have been rumours that the Polten lift (4-seater, I think) would be upgraded but nothing definite has come of that yet.

Probably my turn of phrase about the cows was badly chosen. Although they graze on the Saalforst forest land, I expect they are probably in clearings, not amongst the trees (though the report does talk about grazing in the wood and changes leading to less damage to young trees).

Help!!

Saalbach and Zell am See connection

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