 Poster: A snowHead
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I personally believe that a high intensity all round workout is the best form of fitness and should allow you to cope with whatever pursuits that you put your body through, much better that training sporadically for specific goals...however at elite levels specific training does have its merits.
If you are a gym member, then one of the best forms of all round conditioning is boxing/kick boxing. All muscle groups are worked, especially legs, core and upper body. And you can very quickly get into that all important anaerobic "wobbly" phase where the body starts to metabolise fat. If you are lucky enough to be a member of a gym that provides classes then try a boxercise class or something like a body attack/body combat. You'll get guided through a well structured all round work out, and they remove the tedium of plodding along on a treadmill for 30mins or so.
I see a personal trainer once a week and am put through a combination of boxing and kicking on both pads and bag, squats, lunges, balance work, abs work, planks, intervals on a rower/spin bike, mixed in with weights. She tries to keep my rest periods to a minimum and never longer than 30 ses to keep the heart rate up and improve endurance. Mondays I do a heavier weights session and wednesdays I do a body combat class followed by a spin class. In 12 months I lost the best part of 3 stone, lost 5 inches off my waist and can comfortably row 2000m in sub 7 mins.
Also a word of advice. Muscles work in pairs, so whenever doing strength work always be very carefull to work oposite muscle pairs equally, ( Bicep/Tricep, Quad/Hamstring, Even Calf/Shin...yes there are muscles that run down the front of your lower leg and these need to be worked aswell) but especially Abs/Lower back. This is a major help in developing core stability. No point in having an amazing 6 pack if the lower back isn't strong enough to oppose the pull, you'll end up doubled over and find balance very difficult.
Put the effort in now and you will reap the benefits on the snow...enjoy 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think one big factor here is age.
I am now 46 ( a few days ago - all presents accepted) and find I need way more than a couple of weeks, which might have worked in my 20's. I have 2 weeks till the first skiing of the season and have been doing 45 minutes 3-4 times a week for the last 4 months on a mix of rowing-machine, skiers edge and cycling/swimming, trying to maintain 80-85% max heart rate. Yet I suspect I am still going to have fitness issues which limit me more than technique. The extra 8kg I carry doesn't help
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Some of this may be partly about altitude, and it is interesting that it is very difficult to predict on the basis of available tests how people will cope with it. I have a pulse oximeter at work for measuring arterial O2 saturations and I might take it with me this year for fun! The physiology of breathlessness at altitude is interesting and includes the reduced partial pressure of O2 due to reduced air pressure, and how that relates to the oxygen uptake curve of Haemoglobin. Having larger lungs, a heart which can pump the blood round faster, and a higher haemoglobin concentration (up to the point where your blood becomes too stcky to pump effectively) may help tolerance, as may stopping smoking (by freeing up carboxyhaemoglobin as an early effect).
However HAPE/HACE and AMS are about rather more than this - and to answer megamums point, it is pretty well known that you can have two people of similar age and fitness who will get AMS at very different levels as T-bar and axsman have said. This is a physiologically a different issue from simple breathlessness, fatigue and oxygen carrying ability..
To get back on topic. I think 2 weeks is nowhere near enough but is better than nothing. I would be aiming to do short bursts of exercise of a length similar to the time you would be skiing doing a run, then a rest.I would also be wearing my boots everyday to get my legs used t them again... must start this myself!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stoatsbrother,
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The physiology of breathlessness at altitude is interesting and includes the reduced partial pressure of O2 due to reduced air pressure, and how that relates to the oxygen uptake curve of Haemoglobin. Having larger lungs, a heart which can pump the blood round faster, and a higher haemoglobin concentration (up to the point where your blood becomes too stcky to pump effectively) may help tolerance, as may stopping smoking (by freeing up carboxyhaemoglobin as an early effect).
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People respond by increasing their ventilation in response to the hypoxia which increases the oxygen concentration in their lungs as well as the amount bound to the red cells, the degree of response is probably genetic or fixed early in life and being fit does not help.
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T bar ; Fair point about increasing ventillation in response, and this is - I suspect - more about shifting exhanged air out of the lungs, ie increasing tidal volume to get alveolar O2 pressure as high as possible. In the end you cannot raise the partial pressure of oxygen in the lungs above 20.96% of atmospheric pressure, and actually because of the end tidal concentration of CO2, it is rather less than that. If you deliberately hyperventilate acutely more than a certain amount, not only do you not increase O2 partial pressure, but you can make yourself pretty sick with acid-base changes.
In old units, Atmospheric pressure is about 760mmHg and O2 Partial pressure 160mmHg at sea level. Normally Alveloar O2 is about 120mmHg at sea level. Most people will get to 97-99% SaO2 (ie normal O2 arterial saturation) with a partial pressure of 100mmHg (fetal haemoglobin and other variants may do better at lower levels). As altitude goes up obviously the numbers change and you cannot get an alveolar O2 saturation of 100 at 3000m without getting rid of almost all your CO2 by hyperventilation.
You have stimulated me to do some reading around this and it seems there are some high mountain tribes whose response to altitude seems to be more in terms of excess haemoglobin production, eg in the Andes, and some where it is more about ventilatory response - eg tibet. Another argument for the beauty of evolution!
"This paper presents evidence that indigenous populations of the Tibetan and Andean plateaus exhibit quantitatively different responses to hypobaric hypoxic stress. At the same altitude, Tibetan mean resting ventilation and hypoxic ventilatory response were more than one-half standard deviation higher than Andean Aymara means while Tibetan mean oxygen saturation and hemoglobin concentration were more than one standard deviation below the Andean means. Quantitative genetic analyses of the familial patterning of these traits provided indirect evidence of population differences in genes influencing them. The Tibetan and Andean patterns of oxygen transport appear equally effective functionally as evaluated by birthweight and maximal aerobic capacity across a range of altitudes."
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stoatsbrother,
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this is - I suspect - more about shifting exhanged air out of the lungs, ie increasing tidal volume to get alveolar O2 pressure as high as possible. In the end you cannot raise the partial pressure of oxygen in the lungs above 20.96% of atmospheric pressure, and actually because of the end tidal concentration of CO2, it is rather less than that. If you deliberately hyperventilate acutely more than a certain amount, not only do you not increase O2 partial pressure, but you can make yourself pretty sick with acid-base changes.
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This is right but even relatively small changes in oxygen tension will make large differences in the saturation in the hypoxic environment because you are on the steep part of the dissociation curve, so this CO2 elimination is important. You will also get an increased affinity for the oxygen because of the fall in CO2. The acid base changes will pretty quickly resolve with renal compensation and a lower CO2 is well tolerated.
The differences inTibetans v Andeans is interesting I had previously read that the difference is that the Tibetan response is thought to be an evolved response whereas the Andean inhabitants response was similair to lowlanders and is thought to be disadvantageous because of the viscosity associated with the polycythaemia.
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T Bar, Interesting, and I am sure you are right. The tibetans do also have the bigger mountains and less Coca. The acid-base balance will be renally buffered on a long-term basis (I mentioned the problems with the acute situation to discourage anybody from trying to do it voluntarily) I had forgotten about the CO2 effect on the curve (did the first part of the FFARCS 20 years ago then abandoned respiratory physiology...). However sooner of later you still run out of O2 in your alveoli.
I must take my oximeter skiing and see just how bad I am...
I did wonder what happens to tibetans who cannot hack altitude?
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If anyone has the NYC Ballet workout DVD, there is a sports-specific workout in it for skiing (so you don't have to do the whole routine but just target the right bits).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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T Bar, It might only be guess work, but it makes enough sense to be correct. You said "It is also probably the case that oxygen carriage is not the only issue as people with mountain sickness respond better to going to a lower altitude than they do to being given oxygen" isn't that interesting? Obviously the sickness is caused by many factors acting together.
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Spot the twit that didn't notice we had got to page 2 before I posted 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Based on Whitegold's advice so far, since I'm over 35 (i.e. past it) and haven't worked out for a week (i.e. on my way to an early grave), should I just top myself now, to get it over with? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| should I just top myself now, to get it over with? |
Is that why you jumped in front of jb1970's car?
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FenlandSkier, yeah, but I was hoping he wouldn't rear-end shunt me...
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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like scotabroad, I go mountain biking pretty much every weekend all year round (typically 3-5 hours of fairly serious stuff). That easily covers the cardio requirements for skiing, which is much less intensive than serious mountain biking. A few trips to the snowdome in the last few weeks before I go on holiday helps to condition my feet and wakes up the ski specific muscle groups (whatever they are) and then I'm good to go. I find a good rest is the best thing I can do in the last few days before a long ski trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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uktrailmonster, I haven't been on th mountain bike for a while, damn dark nights and wet weekends. But cross country running seems to have kept the fitness up a little. I can get shattered by this in 40 mins but on the bike it takes 3 hrs so it's a lot better in winter.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My personal fitness regime consists mainly of walking up and down hills, doing some landscaping work with a mate of mine, doing some building work with another mate of mine, and not much else. I belong to a gym and have been in there a few times to se if I can still row or whatever, but usually end up just swimming a few hundred metres. I do a fair bit of stretching just to keep flexibility in the old legs and back. And when I ski without the kids then I ski all day every day. I always get from the top to the bottom and enjoy it. When we get knackered we have some lunch and then carry on.
Personally, I think as long as your day to day life is quite active and you move around a fair bit, then for recreational skiing you should be fit enough anyway. It's not a competition - it's a bit of fun for a week or two a year for most people. With so little time to go, I'd look at sensible eating, some stretching to help flexibility (and reduce chances of hurting yourself) and some brisk walking and hill climbing - do it all outdoors rather than in the confines of the gym and enjoy the fresh air!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well I am going for the ski fit in 3 weeks. My main purpose is to just take the edge off the unfitness (and hopefully not die). 2nd time on the Ergo tonight and 15 mins was enough. Its good for the core, legs and gets flexibility in the hips going (I have none). Feeling a bit "wobbly" now but ok. My slowly improving technique has been sadly and oppositely mirrored by my fitness.
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I keep slogging away on the Denise Austin BodyGlide, and I'm noticing changes!! For some reason I'm not losing any weight now, but I have got muscles in my calves that weren't there before, and things are fitting better. It's also easier to put on my socks!! Every night I groan about getting on the rotten thing, but I am being driven by the need to get everything out of my holiday, but I do think its making a difference  - now all I need to do is kick start the weight loss again.......
Frosty the Snowman, I've just looked up your Ergo machine - its a rower, mine's a rower too - I do 6 lots of 60 rowing reps in various leg and arm positions on mine and various stretches on the resistence cords for the arms and tummy - it takes me about 1/2 hr in total and I'm doing it every night. My thighs have also stopped burning now which is good too. Good luck as you get fitter, you're only a few weeks behind my efforts so it's good to know that there is someone else also trying to get fit as I do.
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Megamum, WE got the Ego About 20 years ago when i was trying to stay fit for rugby but with a knee that wouldn't jog. It is a great machine, but hell on Earth when you are trying to get back into it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| WE got the Ego About 20 years ago |
A freudian slip, if ever I saw one! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, put it in front of the TV and put some ski movies on!
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petemillis, Good idea, but its a bit big to lug round the house. Alternatively I could postion the portable PC and play the DVD through that.................mmmm................
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You know it makes sense.
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Thought I'd pipe in on this thread, as it was 'get fit' threads on here that made me decide to do something about my fitness and weight.
I go to San Sicario on the 4th - been skiing since I was 5 (am nearly 24) and have, over the last couple of years, gradually gained weight and lost fitness. I'm a reasonable build, 6ft 1, and started out at 96.75kg.
I'm doing three/four days a week of cardio as follows:
cycle - 12mins @ 120watts
cross trainer - 20 mins - 5min 75w - 5min 85w - 5min 95w - 5min 85w
treadmill - 15mins - gradient 0 - 4.5m/s (i think - it's 4.5something anyway!)
Rowing - 500m
Here's the progress:
week0 - 96.75kg
week1 - 95.00kg (-1.75kg)
week2 - 93.00kg (-2.0kg)
week3 - 91.50kg (-1.5kg)
But almost more importantly than that - my ability to do exercise has increased A LOT:
cycle - 12mins @ 150watts (from 120)
cross trainer - was - 20 mins - 5min 75w - 5min 85w - 5min 95w - 5min 85w
- now - 20 mins - 5min 105w - 5min 125w - 5min 145w - 5min 155w
treadmill - was - 15mins - gradient 0 @ 4.5m/s (i think - it's 4.5something anyway!)
- now - 15mins - gradient 4.5 @ 6m/s with 2min bursts to 9.6
Rowing - 1000m
So I've lost almost a stone in three weeks, and managed to increase my cardio limits by quite a margin!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Any chance I can get ski fit in 12 hours? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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halfhand, time enough for a practice drinking session.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I was told by a physiotherapist friend that for the first three months of an exercise regime, the latest research showed that any performance benefits in terms of muscle strength were likely to be psychological rather than physiological, as it takes striated muscle that amount of time to respond to conditioning.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| I was told by a physiotherapist friend that for the first three months of an exercise regime, the latest research showed that any performance benefits in terms of muscle strength were likely to be psychological rather than physiological, as it takes striated muscle that amount of time to respond to conditioning. |
With strength training the first changes will be in your co-ordination, the muscle doesn't change but your ability to control it and ask those lazy muscle fibers to do some work improves. After about a month the muscle will start to change.
For endurance training you can see changes withing the muscle much sooner, maybe not 12 hours of drinking though
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kramer, I've found that I am much stronger and have better endurance after just just one or two sessions in the gym and in the pool, and I'm pretty certain that this is psychological. I feel better able to cope with strenuous activites after this almost in a way that I have told shown my body what to expect. I wonder if this is similar to that research that has just been done that showed if you think about your chicken tikka massala and visualise eating it before you actually do eat it, then your stomach is already set to digest it and you don't get fat or something!.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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petemillis, hmmm, I'm imagining beer, even as I type! 
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FAQ
