 Poster: A snowHead
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davidb, If you PM me your email addy I will send you a copy of my ski workouts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi all, now back from Tignes and have done a bit of (web) research on the whole issue of dehydration and AMS (Acute Mountain Sickness)
this site has a mountain  of useful information including:
AMS is very common at high altitude. At over 3,000 metres (10,000 feet) 75% of people will have mild symptoms. The occurrence of AMS is dependent upon the elevation, the rate of ascent, and individual susceptibility. Many people will experience mild AMS during the acclimatisation process. The symptoms usually start 12 to 24 hours after arrival at altitude and begin to decrease in severity around the third day.
The symptoms of Mild AMS include:
Headache
Nausea & Dizziness
Loss of appetite
Fatigue
Shortness of breath
Disturbed sleep
General feeling of malaise
The site also suggests the following approaches to avoiding AMS:
If possible, don't fly or drive to high altitude. Start below 3,000 metres (10,000 feet) and walk up.
If you do fly or drive, do not overexert yourself or move higher for the first 24 hours.
If you go above 3,000 metres (10,000 feet), only increase your altitude by 300 metres (1,000 feet) per day, and for every 900 metres (3,000 feet) of elevation gained, take a rest day to acclimatise.
Climb high and sleep low! You can climb more than 300 metres (1,000 feet) in a day as long as you come back down and sleep at a lower altitude.
If you begin to show symptoms of moderate altitude sickness, don't go higher until symptoms decrease.
If symptoms increase, go down, down, down!
Keep in mind that different people will acclimatise at different rates. Make sure everyone in your party is properly acclimatised before going any higher.
Stay properly hydrated. Acclimatisation is often accompanied by fluid loss, so you need to drink lots of fluids to remain properly hydrated (at least four to six litres per day). Urine output should be copious and clear to pale yellow.
Take it easy and don't overexert yourself when you first get up to altitude. But, light activity during the day is better than sleeping because respiration decreases during sleep, exacerbating the symptoms.
Avoid tobacco, alcohol and other depressant drugs including, barbiturates, tranquillisers, sleeping pills and opiates such as dihydrocodeine. These further decrease the respiratory drive during sleep resulting in a worsening of symptoms.
Eat a high calorie diet while at altitude.
Remember: Acclimatisation is inhibited by overexertion, dehydration, and alcohol.
My actual practice this trip was:
Fly into Geneva and drive straight up to Tignes (2100m). Have a bottle of wine the first evening, a glass of orange and a coffee in the morning and ride the funicular straight up to 3000m (in 7 minutes). Walk (uphill carrying skis) to the top of the Rossolin run, and ski down enthusiastically. Forget to carry water bottle so don't drink anything for the first hour.
In the light of my new knowledge this was clearly a recipe for disaster 
davidb does any of this ring a bell with you?
On previous trips we have only gone up high after a day or two skiing the lower slopes, and have immediately skied down (since that's the reason for going up in the first place ) The other factor making things worse this time was that with the lower slopes closed, we stayed up on top of the glacier for several hours.
So a lesson learned. On future trips if the only skiing is above 2800m I think I'll pass and stay in the bar 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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AxsMan, I think that the combination of altitude and dehydration were contributing factors to the very fast onset of fatigue in my legs. Although I didn't experience any other symptoms and wasn't out of breathe. I'll be up in mountains this weekend as it has been snowing heavily the past few days even at 5000 ft, and almost a metre at Snowbird/Alta in the last 48hrs. So I'll follow the advice of drinking at least a litre of water before I go skiing and take a couple of litres with me.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have been to the Himalayas four times trekking and have a fair bit of experience with altitude.
It's important to realise that your body will dehydrate more at altitude even if you are not perspiring. The reason is apparently that our bodies take moisture from the air all the time but the higher you go the less moisture there is in the air, so the body takes moisture from within as well. Hence you can be freezing your nuts off at altitude but still be dehydrating and not realising it.
The advice to drink more fluid (non alcoholic I am afraid) is very sound.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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it might sound daft but this has happened to me a couple of times and i realised it was because my boots were too tight.
just a suggestion!
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make sure you drink and eat properly before skiing - especially important at altitude when it comes to drinking plenty. eat lots of pasta the night before and drink as much as you can before you go to bed and when you get up. if this means you get up during the night to pee it doesn't matter as long as your body is prepared for a day/week of exercise for long periods of time. weights and cv fitness can only go so far, you need energy to make the most of that fitness and hard work down the gym. you can be the fittest guy on the planet and dehydration (no matter how severe) can make it all go very wrong.
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I find that shampoo usually suffices.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As an ex racer and now a professional patroller, it is essential that I keep my legs strong. At 51, it requires more work each year. From April through early September, I ride a road bike for about 1-2 hours on week-ends and one or two evenings during the week. I occaisionally mountain bike in the hills around my home for 30-45 minutes but with more intensity than on my rode bike. In September, as the days begin to shorten, I mainly mountain bike 3 - 4 days a week at a good pace for 30 - 45 minutes. I also do some fartlek jog/run/sprints in the fields, hills and woods for about 30 minutes on days I don't bicycle. Starting in early October, I begin the strength training. I use a Nordic Track X Country machine for cardio and to stretch my hamstrings and achilles. I do three sets of 10 repetitions of leg curls and presses at low weight. I do wall sits with my back against the wall and my legs bent at 90 degress starting the first week for one minute, increasing the time by one minute each week until around Christmas when I max at 7 - 8 minutes. I do a downhill egg/tuck exercise with a back pack containing two 30 pound dumbells and hold the tuck with occaisional pseudo pre-jumps and lunges starting at 1 minute and working up to 5 minutes. During my strength training, I also work my core with 200 crunches and do upper body exercises. I only train 3-4 days per week for no more than an 1 to 1 1/2 hours. I stretch for 15 minutes after exercise. I am more than ready by Christmas. I can still ski Trifti from Rote Nase to the T Bar non-stop in powder or bumps and last year I broke my record from K. Matterhorn to Cervinia in 11 minutes, schussing the top to Testa Grigia, then Super G and GS turns down to the village.
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Jacques, That regime sounds very, er, impressive  , I think maybe I should stick to the green runs and bars 
shoogly, No I'm sorry, you are completely wrong. I can't be the fittest guy on the planet, not even the 100,000th fittest 
Frosty the Snowman, Haven't tried drinking that, is it nice with amaretto?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Jacques wrote: |
| During my strength training, I also work my core with 200 crunches |
ummm hang on that is not core work is it?
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| Let me just say from the outset that doing heaps of sit-ups and crunches won’t give you core stability. These exercises target the wrong muscles and work them in the wrong fashion (more on this later) |
from http://www.sydneyphysio.com.au/newsletter.html
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wanna race Little Tiger? Last man down buys the Grappa (and Guiness).
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why?
does racing a disabled skier prove you know anything about core? (i'll point out the whole idea came from research by australian physiotherapists... )
Plenty athletes with strong abdominals but weak core or poor activation patterns... (and often back problems to match but that is yet another issue)
If you have strong abdominals that is nice... still NOT core...
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You know it makes sense.
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Down tiger 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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little tiger,
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| If you have strong abdominals that is nice... still NOT core... |
My abdomen is part of my core 
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Poster: A snowHead
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nlinesw4, you need to strengthen your deep abdominal muscles though, not just the six-pack, and the core also includes the back, and pelvic floor.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I could be coming down with a virus and this is the first sign
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quite possibly. I had a really bad couple of days two years ago and realised it was the aftermath of a chest infection. Just not getting enough oxygen to the muscles. I went with my son to Flaine for the day. We had visited before and generally skied the reds down from the top of the Gondola with just one stop, for the view as much as anything. My legs are pretty good normally (I can do the Grand Motte to the bottom of Tignes without a stop, albeit not at a frantic pace). But that day I had to stop constantly and it's a vicious circle. The more your legs hurt, the worse you ski, and the worse you ski, the more they hurt.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I took the advice of drinking lots of water and it appeared to have worked. As I skied yesterday and today no stop from 09:00 to 12:00 with no major problems my legs started to hurt a little bit towards the end, but it wasn't strength sapping just muscle tiredness.
Thank you everyone.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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davidb,
Good news and a lesson to everyone
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FAQ
