 Poster: A snowHead
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the first one was Counting Crows, what was the other?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well i'm sure it's not me mentioned in it!
(Off Topic. Martin, is it your brother who sells the Skier's Edge over here?)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Martin: It’s weirdly ironic that Boddington’s came to prominence when they started brewing cheap, strong, crappy beer for the mill workers and the Fylde day trippers -the bad mannered louts of their day (no worse, no better than today).
You have to balance the numbers, even if the population percentile of d**kheads were the same, then you’ve got to realise that America has enormous reservoirs of stupidity over the UK (remember, I passed through part of the US education system)
But there’s a difference in modifying your behavior or actions based on informed argument against those that are defined by willful ignorance and baseless xenophobia. For all the good that exists in septicland, there’s a lot more bad at the moment. It’ll be a cold day in Hell before the country gains international credibility for any of its institutions and that includes its ski organisations. A decade in Purdha would do it a lot of good but it isn’t going to happen yet.
As you say good and bad are subjective - but plain nasty will always shine through . . and nasty is what’s calling the shots at the moment, it may change in November, if it doesn’t we may as well kiss our children’s snowsports goodbye!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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SteveG, yes.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 2-07-04 5:37; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
| People around the world are working more and more, and have more and more different choices of ways to fill their leisure time. |
That's not the case over a 10 or 20 year span, hours worked reduced around Europe for a start. The figures are that most Americans work (I think) around 43% more hours in a working life than in Europe.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ise, that must be why the lift queues are shorter over here! 
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Martin Bell
| ise wrote: |
| Martin Bell wrote: |
| People around the world are working more and more, and have more and more different choices of ways to fill their leisure time. |
That's not the case over a 10 or 20 year span, hours worked reduced around Europe for a start. The figures are that most Americans work (I think) around 43% more hours in a working life than in Europe. |
I reckon they just tell everyone in the US that it's the norm around the world to never take a vacation, so that they don't complain too much!. I've always found it amazing that you can start a reasonably high-powered job in the States, and be expected to take little - if any - holiday, for the first few years.
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| PG wrote: |
| I reckon they just tell everyone in the US that it's the norm around the world to never take a vacation, so that they don't complain too much!. I've always found it amazing that you can start a reasonably high-powered job in the States, and be expected to take little - if any - holiday, for the first few years. |
If you were sharp eyed you'd have noticed that I posted that at 0536 CET. I was on call and got called by our operation guys about a thing. I'd just got downstairs in the office, brewed a tea and was reading the emails when one of my US colleagues rang. He'd happened to be on site and could deal with the problem if I wanted. This is pretty typical, it was 2030 their local time, not only that, but it was supposed to be a company wide holiday and yet he in the office anyway.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ise wrote: |
| Martin Bell wrote: |
I find that within the continental US, the septics travel a lot - possibly more than in any other industrialised nations, and will think nothing about packing up their belongings in a UHaul, towing the car behind, and moving 1000 miles for a new job. Here in Colorado, probably less than 20% of the population were born here.
Or was that just another "trawl" of yours - Cod forbid! |
Interesting point, I never know what to make of that. I work for an American company in Switzerland and before that for another in Germany. The Americans based here are very atypical though. My US based colleagues behave just like you say though.
What I find curious is that there's probably less aversion to actual traveling than in Europe, like you say many Americans move around a lot. That being the case then arguably it's purely the culture challenge involved in crossing a national border that stops them. |
It might be because they see little need to cross the border. Within the US you have several different types of coast, mountains, plains, deserts, green, rolling hillside, forests, wilderness, large cities, small town life, etc. etc. Add to that the fact that you can get all of that without having to change currency or language and that you'll find a chain restaurant selling "food" exactly as you know and like it, why would you want or need to go to the hassle of travelling. To some people here that may not sound quite so attractive, but to many (in many countries) it sounds ideal.
It's also worth noting that, unless something major happens, travelling abroad (by air especially) could become more difficult and expensive. There's a certain benefit to having less people flying long-haul (though there are plenty of US citizens who fly internally a lot).
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| PG wrote: |
Martin Bell, if the author could actually speak English it might help his cause!
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| In fact, during World War II French authorities actively corroborated with the Nazis during their occupation and deported 75,000 Jews to concentration camps in Germany and elsewhere. |
But what a load of nonsense. Worthy of the Daily Mail (a bit wordy for the Sun). |
Yes he does seem to have got his figures wrong. I was up at Drancy in the north of Paris the other day. There is a fairly nondescript council estate built during the 1930s. On the wall is a plaque which reads:
"in this place, which was a concentration camp, from 1941 to 1944 100,000 jews were interned then sent to Nazi death camps where most of them died"
The concentration camp was run by the Paris police, who, on the 11th of August 1944 joined the resistance. Maurice Papon, a French official working as part of Vichy regime served 4 years for his part in rounding up over 4000 jews who were sent to Auschwitz. That's about 12 hours for each of his victims. When told by his police chief that one jewish man was too ill to move he wrote 'Drag him out" on the arrest warrant... just in case anyone thought there was no smoking gun. Papon was released from prison on health grounds. He was one of only two French officials tried for crimes against humanity. After the war he rose as far as to be a minister in Valery Giscard's government.
If any of you pass through the Gare d'Austerlitz this winter on the way to the Alps take a look at the wall near the left luggage office. There you will see a plaque describing how 11,000 Jews were deported from the station by the Paris police. The plaque wasn't put up by the city council or government but by a students association.
To tie this back to skiing. The Caisse de Depots siezed Jewish bank accounts, stocks and shares during the 2nd world war in collaboration with the police at Drancy (who kept items of jewellery and cash). The Caisse de Depots set up the Compagnie des Alpes who now have concessions on lift systems in a number of French ski resorts including Chamonix, Méribel and Flaine.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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M. Bell writes 'I believe all men have equal rights, and that includes the right to live wherever you want to on this planet. If South Americans want to go and live in North America, if Eastern Europeans want to go live in Western Europe, if Africans want to live in Asia, that's fine by me.' Yes that is simplistic. Nobody wants to go and live in shitty countries. However, plenty of people will grab any opportunity to live in somewhere as nice as Western Europe or the United States. Maybe you don't see too much sign of that in Vail yet. I too would not be bothered about Africans living in Asia because it is up to Asians to look after their own interests. However, I take a very keen interest in who is allowed to live in the UK and Western Europe. Something governments have clearly failed to do.
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Latchigo, those of us who were born in the "industrialised world" or "the west" or the "First World", or whatever you want to call it, should at the very least be thankful that we weren't actually born in a "sh*tty country"!
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You know it makes sense.
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skanky,
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It might be because they see little need to cross the border. Within the US you have several different types of coast, mountains, plains, deserts, green, rolling hillside, forests, wilderness, large cities, small town life, etc. etc. Add to that the fact that you can get all of that without having to change currency or language and that you'll find a chain restaurant selling "food" exactly as you know and like it, why would you want or need to go to the hassle of travelling
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Are you sure you're not talking about the French here? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Martin Bell,
What you need to remember is that the 1st.World created and maintaind the 3rd.World in its current state of inequality . . . simply to support its own dominance and lifestyle.
Have a think about how middle 'America' is experiencing a fall in its life quality and 'middle China' is experiencing a rise in its life quality as the dynamics are changing. Americans are having to work more just to survive and the Chinese are experiencing leisure! As global consumption starts to equalise we’re seeing desperate grabs to control resources to support the existing system.
We are in interesting times.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Does anyone know of any skiing forums where us thick folks can go? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Frosty the Snowman, You can run, you can hide . . . but I'll still talk outa my back bottom!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FerGod'sakeadmin!!!  What's the difference between ass, àrse and "back bottom"
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The difference is that you could be riding an ASS in public in this country without being arrested...
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Durrrrrrrrrr.......My knee hurts
Feck........ drink........ girls..........
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Ahhhhh . . . it's Friday and Frosty's got it 'trse about ait'! That's girls.......drink........feck.........but his knees aren't up to it.
Thank goodness for small mercies
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi:
I'm new to this forum, but will jump in on this issue. For the past 4 years, I've been trying to promote the Alps in the DC area--primarily by writing trip reports for www.dcski.com and for Ski-Europe. In theory, the Alps should be an awesome venue for the metro DC/MD/VA crowd. Why?
1. Not much harder to get to than the Western US. If you have to fly somewhere, why not spend a few hours more on a plane for something different.
2. Huge areas with great vert. and wonderful uphill transportation. Europe has been upgrading its lift infrastructure at a much faster rate than the US, and Americans really appreciate the fast lifts.
3. Great off-slope opportunities. For culture, how can you beat a stopover in Paris, Munich, Venice, or Vienna?
4. Still a pretty good bang for the buck. If you book with a consolidator like SkiEurope, Europe is still a decent deal, especially when if you combine skiing with general sightseeing. The Louvre is much better to see in February than August. Americans have more disposable income and less time than the average European. Hence, the thought of spending 2-4K on a ski vacation in Europe is not that intimidating.
5. Awesome food and nightlife compared to American ski resorts.
So why the hard sell????
1. Poor marketing. European ski resorts rarely advertize in American ski magazines. As a consequence, these mags do not like to write about those resorts. Ski resorts in Europe have not discovered direct mail marketing either. There's nothing like receiving a Courchevel brochure on a 100 degree day in August in DC. I'll read such a brochure 5 times.
2. Concern about snow. Although things are improving, European snowmaking still lags behind America. We sometimes have more skiing in the Mid-Atlantic in December than in Europe thanks to the industrial snowmaking. I know that Europe, for political and structural reasons, will never be able to match America in this regard but they still need to try harder.
3. Fear of travel. 9-11 served to discourage a population already uncomfortable with travel. It, along with frequent scares and increased security, have provided Americans with the ultimate excuse to do what author David Brooks calls: cocooning. In other words, suburban americans like to spend all their time in an air conditioned car, house, and office and NEVER EVER go anywhere else. Riding on a plane or even a public bus or metro is a horrifying thought to many in this country--something to be avoided at all costs. That's why many people in my region never ski outside the region. If they can't drive to the mountain in their big SUV, they ain't interested. By the same token, more people would rather drive to VT than ski Utah.
4. Fear of foreign culture. A friend of mine at Timberline WV once came up to me and said,
"I loved that article you wrote on St. Anton. Boy, I'd like to."
"What's stopping you," I responded.
"I don't think I could manage in a German-speaking environment."
I had to hold back my laughter: a non-English speaker in St. Anton or Courchevel is a rarity. To think that you have to know German to travel to Austria is like thinking you gave to know Dutch to go to Amsterdam. Absurd but Americans, who never travel, cling to such myths about Europe.
5. A cultural aversion to small rental cars and an inability to drive standard transmission.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 14-08-04 21:19; edited 1 time in total
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As an American who travels to Europe once or twice a year, I'm constantly being quizzed on the topic on why Americans get so little time off. I've given the subject a lot of thought, and in my mind it's for a variety of reasons.
Firstly, while there is in my opinion a lot of upside and opportunity for doing a good job, there isn't much of a safety net if one finds himself out of a job for an extended period of time. So it's to employee's benefit to go the extra mile in the workplace and work a few extra hours.
I also consider working rather than taking time off a form of deferred gratification in that I have hopes of saving more and possibly getting out of the game early so I can have fun in my older years. I currently have two unresolved issues on this plan though: firstly, my neighbor, who is retired and has a lot of money, is not able to do many things he wants to do because of age-related health problems. Secondly, yesterday I was perusing around a great website called www.thinkgeek.com and came across the following quote on a T-shirt: "Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now." How can I possibly respond to that???
Most Americans find they get 4 weeks a year vacation coming to them if they stick with their job for a few years. During the first year, the time off is usually two weeks, but if someone really wants more time, there are usually options available to them, such as 'comp time' ie working overtime and taking vacation days in lieu of money, or unpaid leave, ie taking a 3 week trip but only being paid for 2 of those weeks.
Lastly, I enjoy my job and the people I work with. I think that's very important, as I spend a lot of my time working, and don't feel a burning need to get out of there for stretches of 2 weeks or longer.
That being said, I do enjoy a week skiing trip in the winter and a week in the summer with occasional weekend trips throughout the year. And my attitude towards work / time off may very well change in this next year, as we are expecting our first in December.
John
Los Angeles.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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johnfmh, Welcome. I'm a patroller at Timberline WV. I've taken at least two ski vacations in Europe in each of the past fifteen years. The reasons why have been hashed over many times on this list. Overall the food nightlife and beer is much better in Europe than here in WV or anywhere in the States. The sad truth is if you can ski Cherry Bowl and Off the Wall (when it's bumped-up) at Timberline then most of Europe is way too easy.
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johnfmh, another welcome and thanks also to relative newcomers JohnnyC & Jean Claude Mogul. Nice to have 3 views from 'over the pond' in quick succession on this revived thread. As Alan said, it's a bit quiet on here weekends. Livens up over the 1st cup of coffee Monday morning UK time. 
News update on going the other way - the requirement for biometric passports to visit USA has been put back by at least one more year. But from Oct 2004 you will be photographed and finger printed on entry, I believe. And every visitor (including children) will need an individual machine-readable style of passport to enter under the current visa-waiver scheme.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
The sad truth is if you can ski Cherry Bowl and Off the Wall (when it's bumped-up) at Timberline then most of Europe is way too easy.
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Jean Claude:
I hear you. One problem in Europe is too much grooming on the black slopes. This is another reflection of the European attitude that a ski vacation is about relaxation--no marked piste should be beyond the capability of an advanced (not expert) skier. However, when it snows, blacks at places like St. Anton or Solden can get pretty challenging. Their length and vertical requires stamina that is not required for East Coast skiing. In the worst case scenario, you can snap off you boots and walk down many double blacks here. Try doing that on the Kandahar trail at St. Anton or worse yet, Madloch over in Zuers. 
Then of course there's off-piste: Europe boasts many more easily accessible off piste routes that are so steep that if you fall, you die. The off piste is what makes Europe orders of magnitude more difficult than the East Coast of the US. The extent of this terrain in places like St. Anton is simply mind boggling. Furthermore, if you end up on some strange road after an off piste descent, there's always public transportation available to get you back to a lift.
But back to the main issue at hand, the war is not a factor for why Americans are not traveling to Europe: marketing, fear of flying/travel, and concern about snow are more significant causes. I got POWDER and SKI over the weekend and did not find a single ad for a European resort. POWDER did have an interesting article on Bansko in Bulgaria, but again, no ads for European ski resorts. If these resorts want American customers, they need to get much more aggressive in their marketing efforts.
The Washington, DC area, for example, posseses a large group of skiers who regularly travel to West Coast to ski and do not mind blowing big money on the sport--top of the line skis often sell out in a few weeks at our local ski stores. At The Ski Center store, a manager told me that the good stuff never goes on sale--people here are willing to pay full price for top of the line goods. Courchevel should purchase the mailing list of every Ski Magazine subscriber on the East Coast and send them a nice brochure.
HOWEVER, I honestly don't think that Europe cares much about North American skiers anymore. According to a friend who works for the St. Moritz Tourist Board, the focus now is on Russians and Asians. Russians, in particular, spend money in ways that Americans just don't: they hire instructors for an entire week, purchase a bottle of champagne with every lunch, rent the best equipment (Americans bring their own), stay in the best hotels, and spend much more on apres ski than Americans.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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johnfmh, I concur with almost all. The off piste is usually great for the first few days after a dump. That is, if there isn't any wind pack or crust. I can do almost all except for the breakable crust. Could be the fear of being sliced up. I've enjoyed your articles on the DCSKI site. The SCGB site even reported on the four foot dump at Timberline a few years ago. Bob
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Poster: A snowHead
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As a septic and a long term émigré to the ‘Old Lady’, I’ve “gotta chuck a brick in t’midden” (translation = 2¢’s worth)
It’s easy to lapse into generalisations, but (with significant exceptions) many of my countrymen, when visiting Europe, really do embody all the worst aspects of the ‘American Tourist’ - see 1985’s National Lampoon’s European Vacation and think “am I really that crass?” Well yeah, too many of us are. We moan, complain, whinge and get our panties bunched simply because it’s not ‘America’! – and we can’t be ârsed to even spell ‘culture’ let alone make the mental leap to the consideration that other cultures actually exist and (even further into the Outer Limits) are quite happy to keep them that way.
OK, everyone is capable of behaving like an idiot, but on the whole, Europeans suppress their historical loathings (there is a Mr. Wickes who is an exception to that statement) and make the attempt to meld with whatever society they’re visiting (I’m not talking about the summer fleshpots of the Med. which have their own unique lifeforms). It has to be said guys, we’re just not worth the money or effort to want to bring here (some economic argument above). And Georgie Boy is just the icing on the cake! Being dumb and uncouth is one thing but willful ignorant xenophobia is another.
So . . . I’ve a few pointers that may help some of you survive Europe without adding to America’s woes.
1.Beer: The Sumerian’s started it 10,000 years ago, and Europe’s had a fair time to get it right. Mr. Coors’ buro p¡ss is not the crowning glory to 10 millennia of brewing!
2.Cheese: Has at least 10.000 different varieties and should be fighting it’s way out of the dairy counter, not squirted from a tin.
3.That newfangle interwebby thing means that ‘EVERYONE’ knows what you mean when you call them a *sshole!
4.God: is not a christian (pause a moment and bang a few brain cells together).
5. If you ‘ask’ for help you’ll usually get it, demand it and you’ll get what you deserve. Hey, what’s new; when was the last time you visited NY and got a civil answer to request?
6.Food: can usually be recognised from its origin, so you can make a choice. Have ANY of you read (and understood) the contents list on a pack of Oscar Mayer bologna?
7. Language: Since about 80% of English is derived from European roots – it’s NOT that difficult to figure the basics.
8.Toilets: Apart from the Germanic porcelain systems that allow for the need to ‘inspect’ your movements (or kill them with a stick), you’ll not find anything you’ve not seen before. Their state of cleanliness may be another matter but there’s a ‘rest stop’ outside Albuquerque that qualifies for a CDC warning so . . . QED.
9: I’ll drop some more in later.
If you want a cheap vacation, look at booking through an online UK travel company for the vacation and then organise budget flights to London or Paris to pick up on the transfers. Alternatively, there are plenty of Snowheads organising things for this season, just ask for some help on the dates you’re ready to party. All you’ll need is to open your ears, eyes and mind for a great time. Just don’t ask me “have you found Jesus” on a long chair-lift, as the drop is often ‘life treatening’.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Masque, what are you at I've just seen the time of posting, not another all-night computers session surely?
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FAQ
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snowHeads 