 Poster: A snowHead
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@DJL, that brings it down to 450m.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't think PdS has claimed to be the largest for donkey's years. All the official publicity I've seen for decades specifies "largest international ski-area" 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@shep, I think that is because they have been shouted down for claiming to be the largest French area.
@Crosbie, looking at your map we may not have taken the most efficient route. I think from Pleney we went down the first street you come too but it looks as if the second works better. But that guy compiling the table made his own rules (including the midline down all pistes), I have no idea whether he had an inbuilt bias to 3V...
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As Rolls Royce would state regarding the power of their engines, to those who know it, the size of Les Portes du Soleil is adequate.
One can select criteria to pretend other resorts have superiority, but this doesn't actually change anything.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Crosbie, I hadn't heard that particular Rolls Royce story but it fits the legend.
To be fair, not having owned or being likely to own a Rolls Royce I have found other car makes "adequate" (currently a VW). And some other ski areas have turned out sufficiently "adequate" for me, while PdS is large on paper not all of its mileage is realistically skiable from a single base (and the same could be said of Sella Ronda).
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@j b, I have yet to do Abondance, La Chapelle-d'Abondance, and Saint-Jean-d'Aulps. The PdS has enough to last a lifetime! 
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| Crosbie wrote: |
| @j b, I have yet to do Abondance, La Chapelle-d'Abondance, and Saint-Jean-d'Aulps. The PdS has enough to last a lifetime! |
La Chapelle (both bits) well worthwhile though a bit of a trek if you are in Morzine or Les Gets.
St Jean d’Aulps makes a fine day out if conditions are good. Two full circuits plus all the other runs is feasible in a day.
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If you don’t count buses, you shouldn’t count trains.
But that means Wengen isn’t connected to Murren. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My criteria is simpler. If they’re on the same piste map, it’s “linked” 
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@DJL, thanks for the encouragement. I hope to be in Avoriaz March/April sometime. Not sure if those areas will be open, but if they are I may well finally check 'em out.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The difference between a short bus ride vs a cable car across a valley seems irrelevant. Both are forms of public transport taking you from one ski area to another rather than skiing infrastructure themselves. You couldn’t lap the lift (or the bus)
So that would create a distinction between areas such as PDS and Paradiski which are connected ski resorts, you can easily ski both Les Arcs and La Plagne in a day, or Avoriaz and Morzine Les Gets in a day regardless of where you’re staying, facilitated by a short walk or a convenient, short public transport link (cable car, little train).
Versus 3Vs or Val/Tignes which are both single ski areas. No public transport type links, you can ski though the whole areas on purely ski infrastructure, pistes and ski uplift.
If Morzine build the proposed lift from Morzine to the bottom of Prodains that would blur the definition further! Public transport or a ski lift??
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@bouquetin,
By 'public transport', I take it you mean any transport that, although usable by skiers, is essentially intended for use by pedestrians - for transit between pedestrian/non-piste areas.
Buses would fall into that classification, but Le Vanoise Express and Le Petit Train would not - being intended for use by skiers.
By 'ski infrastructure' you seem to mean any means of transit where a skier could ski from the higher terminus to the lower.
So, there exists a missing category, 'skier transport', to transport skiers from one pisted area (or ski infrastructure) to another, where no skiable route exists in either direction, e.g. a chair over a mountain ridge between a piste and a glacier, or a gondola over the rooftops of a ski village, from the base of one piste to the base of another.
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| bouquetin wrote: |
| If Morzine build the proposed lift from Morzine to the bottom of Prodains that would blur the definition further! Public transport or a ski lift?? |
I recall they were talking about an underground "magic carpet" between Pleney and that new lift: definitely designed to transport skiers.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Crosbie wrote: |
| So, there exists a missing category, 'skier transport', to transport skiers from one pisted area (or ski infrastructure) to another, where no skiable route exists in either direction, e.g. a chair over a mountain ridge between a piste and a glacier, or a gondola over the rooftops of a ski village, from the base of one piste to the base of another. |
You could indeed make a distinction between skier transport and public transport, but it doesn’t really solve when a connected resort can be counted as a single area for the purposes of figuring out which is bigger. Because it’s all just shades of grey. While Le Petit Train is weird it’s just a link between two lifts using wheels rather than skis, could easily be a shuttle bus. So would La Clusaz and Le Grand Bornand count as connected in the same way? Because there is a dedicated free bus between the main lifts in either village that exists only to enable skiers to transfer between the resorts.
So if we’re trying to judge the largest resort I’d exclude skier transport as you describe it because it’s connecting two resorts rather than making a big one. But it would be easy to argue the opposite. Endless pub debate with no actual answer.
But for practical purposes a resort connected by ski lifts is more practical to ski around than one with those types of connections that go from the base of one lift to the base of another. And the longer the connection between those bases the less convenient, wherever those exist you normally only do it once a day to ski in the other area.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It all comes down to how you define/include/exclude the ‘skis off’ bits.
Skis on= rope tows (including horse powered), pomas, t-bars, chairs & magic carpets.
Skis off= gondolas, cable cars, funiculars, travelators, cog railways & any other road based motorised transport.
What is the longest distance (from A to B as the crow flies) that you can travel without taking off your skis? (Not including off piste or xc skiing, in fact… only including downhill skiing)
Top of Marmolada to Santa Croce?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| bouquetin wrote: |
| Endless pub debate with no actual answer. |
Perhaps the most salient comment so far.
At first sight @dode's comment about "skis on" seemed sensible, except that it rules out resorts where the lift operator has for perfectly good operational reasons (summer use) changed a crucial chairlift to a gondola.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@j b, obviously they are excluded.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| dode wrote: |
It all comes down to how you define/include/exclude the ‘skis off’ bits.
Skis on= rope tows (including horse powered), pomas, t-bars, chairs & magic carpets.
Skis off= gondolas, cable cars, funiculars, travelators, cog railways & any other road based motorised transport.
What is the longest distance (from A to B as the crow flies) that you can travel without taking off your skis? (Not including off piste or xc skiing, in fact… only including downhill skiing)
Top of Marmolada to Santa Croce? |
Only to mid point at Santa Croce. Upper lift is a gondola
But yes that would be a lovely long ride with no skis off !
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@sheffskibod, cheers for the clarification. I’ve only done Santa Croce the once and it was a few years ago, so was struggling to remember the lift system.
Haven’t been to the 3V this century so no idea of any comparisons there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The bottom chair at Santa Croce is being replaced this season by a Gondola.
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The longest as the crow flies with skis on would be interesting. And could indicate a sense of going somewhere by skis which is a nice way to spend the day.
Longest distance on the ground without taking skis off or repeating a lift would also be interesting.
Morillon Les Esserts through the Grand Massif, around Flaine and finishing with a run down Cascades to Sixt must be a good shout for that. No need to take a gondola and also would be a great day out. Needs a good snow year for cascades though.
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My conclusion is that L3V is indeed the largest and any others pretending to be larger should have an asterisk.
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AFAIK Largest by KM of piste and Skiable area 3V's
Largest geographic interconected Portes du Soleil
Largest non continuous and by number of pistes and number of lifts SuperSki Dolomiti
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