 Poster: A snowHead
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@HilbertSpace, I would be doing approx. 2000 miles, so would work out £500 for me to rent for one trip, rough cost for a set of 4 to purchase is around £500, I am driving twice so makes even more sense to buy outright.
there is a friendly local garage to me that we use, that i am sure i could pay them to swap the tyres over for me for a small fee.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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At one point I had an ordinary Peugeot 306 and bought some chains of the right size. But, as @LaForet says, don't assume that all will be OK - there wasn't enough space between the tyre-wall and the suspension to be able to fit the chains. The chains stayed in the boot to show the Gendarme/Police Municipal and I relied on the Nokian snow tyres.
Incidentally, the Nokians were on a set of four steel wheels that I bought from a breaker's yard - they even included the bolts (which are usually different from bolts for alloys).
Lastly, if I couldn't go up a hill because of too much snow I turned round and reversed up!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've seen snow socks mentioned a few times, I have to say they really, really do work. Tricky to get on though if your car has wide wheels and low suspension. My BMW 335i had standard suspension/wheels and they were tricky to fit.
I've fitted winters to pretty much every car I've owned since 2010 and I can't put into words how well they work.
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| damanpunk wrote: |
I've seen snow socks mentioned a few times, I have to say they really, really do work. Tricky to get on though if your car has wide wheels and low suspension. My BMW 335i had standard suspension/wheels and they were tricky to fit.
I've fitted winters to pretty much every car I've owned since 2010 and I can't put into words how well they work. |
They do work when needed but their usable life is very short. If you drive with socks on on dry roads at moderate speeds or need to brake frequently if driving in traffic then their usable life span is very short.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think I did eventually tear one of mine but luckily that was towards the end of the bad winter in 2010.
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| terrygasson wrote: |
@HilbertSpace, I would be doing approx. 2000 miles, so would work out £500 for me to rent for one trip, rough cost for a set of 4 to purchase is around £500, I am driving twice so makes even more sense to buy outright.
there is a friendly local garage to me that we use, that i am sure i could pay them to swap the tyres over for me for a small fee. |
Look up all the sizes of tyre that your car's handbook says you can use snow chains with. Then lookup the price of a decent proper snow tyre for all those sizes. And finally get on ebay and look for some second hand rims. Buying new (usually smaller) rims and the smaller tyres to go on them may work out cheaper than just the larger tyres on their own.
For my car (Merc C class) it can take 16, 17, 18 and 19 inch rims. The cheapest tyres are the 16 inch ones, and I picked up a set of 4 genuine Merc alloys for £150. Add £350 for the snow tyres, and it's basically £500.
I've done two return trips to France so far, including this years EoSB when the temp was 25+. The tyres and rims went on the car in Nov, and came off after the EoSB. Probably did 4K miles on them, and still got 8mm+ of tread left.
The only thing you will need is somewhere to store them, but for me the faff of swapping rims twice per year is easier than the faff of swapping tyres on the rims. And it gives you a backup plan if the summer racing slicks are marginal for the MoT. 
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It's worth keeping an eye out on ebay for chains too, I picked up a set of Thule K-summit K34 for a bargain towards the end of last winter.
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| HilbertSpace wrote: |
In my view the best tyres to drive from the UK to a ski resort are winter-rated all season tyres (e.g. CrossClimate)...
They will fully meet the legal requirements and they perform very well in the snow. But unlike a dedicated winter tyre they will also be excellent on the vast motorway slog, where temperatures could easily be 10-15C or even much higher later in the season. |
^ This. We've tried all sorts of options and found this the best choice of all for your description. Having used different versions of all-seasons with the mountain and snowflake symbol, we've now settled on Cross-climate's on a SUV, which have performed really well on snow on our drives to Austria and also to places like the south of france in summer without missing a beat. Just make sure whatever version you choose has the mountain and snowflake symbol. Also check out prices for comparison on a site like mytyres.co.uk or one of the others - all-seasons are sometimes better value than winter tyres but without the hassle of changing twice a year.
France is in a state of flux it seems about tyre rules but do not even think of it in Austria, for example.
Great to be talking about the old subjects rather than C****!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| damanpunk wrote: |
| It's worth keeping an eye out on ebay for chains too, I picked up a set of Thule K-summit K34 for a bargain towards the end of last winter. |
So did I. I then duly lost one coming down and managed to find someone else who had lost on on ebay - happy days!
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For snow chains I'd recommend roofbox.co.uk
Even if you don't buy from them, they offer great advice on what chains will fit your particular car and wheel size. E.g. my car only takes 9mm chains because bigger (16mm) chain links could snag on the shock absorbers.
As an aside, it's surprising how many new fancy SUVs cannot take traditional snow chains at all, and require expensive (~£400) ladder track chains.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
it's surprising how many new fancy SUVs cannot take traditional snow chains at all
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just another of their chocolate tea-pot like qualities. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| HilbertSpace wrote: |
For snow chains I'd recommend roofbox.co.uk
Even if you don't buy from them, they offer great advice on what chains will fit your particular car and wheel size. E.g. my car only takes 9mm chains because bigger (16mm) chain links could snag on the shock absorbers.
As an aside, it's surprising how many new fancy SUVs cannot take traditional snow chains at all, and require expensive (~£400) ladder track chains. |
I can totally recommend roofbox.co.uk as well I have bought spares from them and often just asked for advice
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Having posted that you can rent them , good if your are only planning to do it once or your are about to change car, I looked at my tyres.co.uk and they do "Nankang Cross Seasons" which are significantly cheaper anyone got any experience with them?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
It's worth keeping an eye out on ebay for chains too, I picked up a set of Thule K-summit K34 for a bargain towards the end of last winter.
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And the buy/sell section on here as well - have sold chains via Snowheads. It might also be worth asking if anyone has any they no longer want as well - I am sure that I am not the only one to have a collection of chains in the loft that fitted previous cars!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| radar wrote: |
| Having posted that you can rent them , good if your are only planning to do it once or your are about to change car, I looked at my tyres.co.uk and they do "Nankang Cross Seasons" which are significantly cheaper anyone got any experience with them? |
Tried their summers once - They are bad. Not much else to say about them, apart from you are lucky, if you actually get four that are perfectly round.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just a comment that I don't think has been mentioned yet but if you embrace winter tyre use you're halving the wear on your summer tyres. The majority of cars I've owned over the years I've never needed to put a second set of tyres on before selling it, so it's more economical than expected.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Raceplate, @DanishRider, thanks, had to be a reason they are so cheap
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| radar wrote: |
| @Raceplate, @DanishRider, thanks, had to be a reason they are so cheap |
Tyres are the ONLY contact you have with the road, that enables you to accelerate, brake and steer, so essentially that is the one place where I am not a cheapskate. That said, there are little difference between the quality brands, and it basically comes down to what specific “effects” you are looking for.
The Michelin crossclimate seems to be the best alrounder, but for snow performance we choose the Goodyear Vector, but gave up a little on the dry road performance.
The choice is yours 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm quite sure that I wouldn't detect any different in "dry road performance" from any half-decent (or perhaps even an indecent) tyre. Having said that, I entirely agree that tyres are crucial, and never mind shelling out for new ones when necessary. I'm a fan of snow tyres, but going to France for just a week, the arguments are very marginal in a front wheel drive car if you have, and can quickly fit, chains. But Austria and Switzerland are another matter, obviously.
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Got my all seasons put on yesterday. With a 15% off all Michelins at QuickRip, it turned out to be very little more than the normal set of tyres I would have had. Am now very excited by prospect of driving over to our place this winter, which may well be the least painful option given airport chaos etc. With the added bonus of not having to panic if we get a bit of snow here.
I know this place was the right place to come for useful info.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I'm quite sure that I wouldn't detect any different in "dry road performance" from any half-decent (or perhaps even an indecent) tyre. Having said that, I entirely agree that tyres are crucial, and never mind shelling out for new ones when necessary. I'm a fan of snow tyres, but going to France for just a week, the arguments are very marginal in a front wheel drive car if you have, and can quickly fit, chains. But Austria and Switzerland are another matter, obviously. |
Well - I have to go through Germany and on the Autobahn, and I would NEVER do that with summers in the winter. Going through Kassel etc, can make you exposed to both ice and snow, and I very often see cars on summers that have crashed. We each value our and other lives differently. Unfortunately you see a lot of danish cars crashing there, because people don’t want to pay 500 euros for a good set of tires.
Same thing when it is snowing and people are queuing up going up the mountain, and 90% of the times, it is somebody trying to go up without the tyres and/or chains holding everyone back.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| damanpunk wrote: |
| Just a comment that I don't think has been mentioned yet but if you embrace winter tyre use you're halving the wear on your summer tyres. The majority of cars I've owned over the years I've never needed to put a second set of tyres on before selling it, so it's more economical than expected. |
Also bear in mind that winter tyres age and the rubber gets harder, reducing performance. I've found this to be a problem after 4-5 years. So if you do low mileage in the winter, you may need to replace the tyres before the tread wears out. As mentioned above, performance also drops off as the tread goes below about 4 mm, again this is more noticeable than with summer tyres.
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| Quote: |
Well - I have to go through Germany and on the Autobahn, and I would NEVER do that with summers in the winter. Going through Kassel etc, can make you exposed to both ice and snow, and I very often see cars on summers that have crashed. We each value our and other lives differently
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I reject the implication that anyone driving on European motorways in winter with summer tyres is playing fast and loose with the lives of others. Most cars in France, most of the year, are on normal (ie not snow) tyres. The way you drive is far more important than the tyres you do it on. Sadly, having winter tyres doesn't prevent you being a dickhead, any more than having summer tyres makes you a menace to all around you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Well - I have to go through Germany and on the Autobahn, and I would NEVER do that with summers in the winter. Going through Kassel etc, can make you exposed to both ice and snow, and I very often see cars on summers that have crashed. We each value our and other lives differently
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I reject the implication that anyone driving on European motorways in winter with summer tyres is playing fast and loose with the lives of others. Most cars in France, most of the year, are on normal (ie not snow) tyres. The way you drive is far more important than the tyres you do it on. Sadly, having winter tyres doesn't prevent you being a dickhead, any more than having summer tyres makes you a menace to all around you. |
Well that is an opinion - I do agree that winter tyres don’t prevent anyone being a dick.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Anyone who ask about winter tyres are already way ahead. They recognize the unique wintery road surfaces.
Whether they end up buying winter tyres or not will be determined by many factors. Regardless, these people will be paying attention to the driving conditions in the winter in the Alps. They may choose not to get winter tyres but stay put till a storm passes and the roads clear, or putting on chains when needed etc. They're typically not the ones who try to drive up to the resorts in their summer tyres. Those who do are more likely the type who didn't even know what the heck is this thing call chains! Never mind having a set in the car.
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| ... I very often see cars on summers that have crashed. .... |
Just out of interest, how do you know? If the vehicle's off the road, in deep snow, or worse, you can't see the wheels at all. If it's on its roof then I guess you can see the wheels, but you'd need to stop and take a very close look to determine the markings on the tyres. Hmm.
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You know it makes sense.
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| philwig wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| ... I very often see cars on summers that have crashed. .... |
Just out of interest, how do you know? If the vehicle's off the road, in deep snow, or worse, you can't see the wheels at all. If it's on its roof then I guess you can see the wheels, but you'd need to stop and take a very close look to determine the markings on the tyres. Hmm. |
I don’t know if you know the law in Germany, but you are NOT allowed to drive in winter conditions without winter/all-season tyres on the car, so when a Dane crashes in Germany, and are prosecuted for not having the correct tyres on, it hits the news here - And they even run campaigns about it.
If you are cued up in slow traffic passing an accident, it it surprisingly easy to spot a summer tyre  Summers have long wide channels in the thread pattern, and winters have smaller channels going outward on the pattern.
So here is the deal: Why would anybody drive in alpine conditions in winter on a summer tyre ? In my opinion it is lack of respect for human life, to save 500 euros on an appropriate tire for the conditions. A modern quality all season is a good and valid compromise, that is at least a lot better.
Somebody here (Pam?) said that the person could not feel the difference on dry roads - Try running a +300 HP car, and you WILL notice the difference.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@MogulMonkey, Michelin X climate 2s will be perfect, add Snow Socks for emergencies, go on line for weater and road conditions . . . and PARK IT AT A HOTEL when you question 'should I risk it?'
Oh, and, good sleeping bags for all occupants, 2 litres of water for each occupant, power bars for 2 days each and minimum of 10 litres of spare fuel.
Avi shovel, toilet paper and travel board games are kinda useful too.
edit: Winter tyres are NOT defined by their tread pattern (though it is part of the construction parameters) but primarily by the construction and compounds used . . . However Michelin seem to have struck some sort of deal with the Devil to enable a competitive winter tyre to function and last well in summer use!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@pam w, mine runs 545 bhp . . . and rubber neckers are a real PITA!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@DanishRider, round here it's usually dead easy to spot the summer tyres, being the ones fitted to the cars in the ditch, or upside down 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Ever heard of driver assist systems ?
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Only in a vague sort of a way. I enjoy driving as a means to getting somewhere. Over half a century in four continents including 15 alpine winters and have yet (touch wood.... I've been lucky.....) to hit another car, person, tree or other roadside furniture. I can put chains on in record time and change a wheel if nobody better is around. But I'm bored by the technicalities. When I need to buy a car I read reviews and ask advice for a week or so, then am relieved when the decision is made and I don't have to think about it again for miles. My latest purchase was a 2016 Skoda Fabia automatic (my first automatic, I'm old) estate. I am delighted with it. It has a full size spare wheel (which was my top requirement) and does 50 mpg. I can't remember the size of the engine but it has enough horses to break speed limits round here if I'm not careful. What's the point of more?
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Ever heard of driver assist systems ?
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Only in a vague sort of a way. I enjoy driving as a means to getting somewhere. Over half a century in four continents including 15 alpine winters and have yet (touch wood.... I've been lucky.....) to hit another car, person, tree or other roadside furniture. I can put chains on in record time and change a wheel if nobody better is around. But I'm bored by the technicalities. When I need to buy a car I read reviews and ask advice for a week or so, then am relieved when the decision is made and I don't have to think about it again for miles. My latest purchase was a 2016 Skoda Fabia automatic (my first automatic, I'm old) estate. I am delighted with it. It has a full size spare wheel (which was my top requirement) and does 50 mpg. I can't remember the size of the engine but it has enough horses to break speed limits round here if I'm not careful. What's the point of more? |
I am impressed with your skills with putting on chains, since I am literally an idiot with chains. Actually bought Thule Easyfit chains for this specific reason, but unfortunately they don’t make them anymore, so a requirement for my next car is, that it can fit a tyre in one of the sizes of chains I already have. BUT I drive a GOOD winter tyre, so haven’t needed chains in the last 6 seasons - Maybe I am just lucky 
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I drove good winter tyres too, but did need chains sometimes, though certainly not every season. I always put them on at the first sign of any loss of traction (best detected by ear - keep the driver's window open and stay in the highest gear possible). Waiting till you lose traction and wheels are spinning is poor practice, witness all the idiots one finds stuck in unsuitable places failing to get the bloody things on and holding up the rest of us. Because I avoided snowy transfer days I was only once required to put them on, by the police - I was subsequently glad I had, as I had to drive onto the unploughed edge of the road to get past various stuck vehicles. The glib assurance that "the roads are kept well clear" doesn't take into account the times when the ploughs can't get through, or it's snowing so hard it builds up fast, or on local roads after the ploughing stops around 10pm, or that last hundred icy yards up a steep road to your accommodation, with three tired kids and a mountain of luggage. I don't understand why anybody prepared to give it a bit of thought, and practice, would have problems putting chains on. Shows a cavalier disregard for the lives of others, if you ask me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I drove good winter tyres too, but did need chains sometimes, though certainly not every season. I always put them on at the first sign of any loss of traction (best detected by ear - keep the driver's window open and stay in the highest gear possible). Waiting till you lose traction and wheels are spinning is poor practice, witness all the idiots one finds stuck in unsuitable places failing to get the bloody things on and holding up the rest of us. Because I avoided snowy transfer days I was only once required to put them on, by the police - I was subsequently glad I had, as I had to drive onto the unploughed edge of the road to get past various stuck vehicles. The glib assurance that "the roads are kept well clear" doesn't take into account the times when the ploughs can't get through, or it's snowing so hard it builds up fast, or on local roads after the ploughing stops around 10pm, or that last hundred icy yards up a steep road to your accommodation, with three tired kids and a mountain of luggage. I don't understand why anybody prepared to give it a bit of thought, and practice, would have problems putting chains on. Shows a cavalier disregard for the lives of others, if you ask me. |
Exactly why I shell out for the expensive Thule Easyfit chains - Fat thumps isn’t really an excuse for not using them when needed - Winter tires or not:-)
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| mgrolf wrote: |
| damanpunk wrote: |
| Just a comment that I don't think has been mentioned yet but if you embrace winter tyre use you're halving the wear on your summer tyres. The majority of cars I've owned over the years I've never needed to put a second set of tyres on before selling it, so it's more economical than expected. |
Also bear in mind that winter tyres age and the rubber gets harder, reducing performance. I've found this to be a problem after 4-5 years. So if you do low mileage in the winter, you may need to replace the tyres before the tread wears out. As mentioned above, performance also drops off as the tread goes below about 4 mm, again this is more noticeable than with summer tyres. |
I wouldn't take a set past 4mm, there's still a market for selling them at that depth though. I've made good money selling my old winters as cars leave.
I mostly fit Continentals and Michelins, haven't had much of a problem with performance dropping off. Just really what you'd expect as you start wearing through tread.
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FAQ
I've never felt the need for a +300HP car. Perhaps it's a man thing.
