Journey to becoming a ski instructor

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@swskier, Andorra is definitely a good option. They seem to like British/English speaking instructors there, although there maybe an influx if things are tricky for existing instructors in other countries. Relatively low income tax/contributions too. Mine will be roughly 10%.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@swskier, before looking too far ahead to L3 & L4 (as per your posts further up-thread) I would recommend actually working as a ski instructor once you have your L2 in the bag (complicated in these times etc ) and actually see if you enjoy doing the job - it is one thing doing a bit of ski teaching here and there, quite another racking up full seasons of instructing...

I say this from the back of 27-ish seasons of ski instruction, so for me it works, but not for everyone... It also used to be a particular bugbear of mine in my trainer years when succesful L2 candidates would ask during the debrief what training course they should do next - to which my answer invariably was: "go and do the job, and then worry about that..."

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@AL9000, one of my favourites! A real teacher.

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@Tubaski, in order to get the L2 qualification I'll need to rack up 70 hours, so I'll be doing plenty of shadowing over the course of this year, beyond the 20 needed for L1.

@offpisteskiing, totally get your point. Ideally I'd like to get out and teach, but as you say, visas might be an issue, in which case, I might be best off getting on a L3 training course, will see what happens as things unfold. Certainly we've been encouraged to coach each other over last weekend, and I've enjoyed that as much as working on my own skiing.

@AL9000, yep, enjoy her channel, have watched a lot of her stuff. She clearly absolutely loves her job!

After all it is free

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@swskier, an older thread but worth looking at https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=110745#2532055

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@skimottaret, thanks. I'll have a read through. FWIW, i'm totally onboard with doing a season to get that teaching experience, it's just the logistics of visas at the moment that will stop that. Real catch 22.

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@swskier, You could always try working at your local slope. You mentioned Gloucester, if that is convenient for you perhaps you could get some hours in there. Ask for Sue D. she is a mate of mine and was/is the boss of the ski school... I did most of my L2/L3 teaching hours in domes and dry slopes

@skimottaret, yep, planning on doing that as well. Mendip Activity Centre is my nearest, but weren't able to offer shadowing hours when I last spoke to them due to covid, but Gloucester were ok with it, plus I can tie that in with Race Training.

You know it makes sense.

@swskier, Gloucester is a very well run dry slope and would be a good place to do both Cool

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I didn't read the whole thread so not sure if this has been mentioned, but Japan could be a good option to get some instructing experience post Brexit. They used to have quite strict visa rules, but once they open up after covid (not likely this year), it will be easy to get a visa and job.

A snowHead

@jimmer, thanks for the info. Does getting a visa work well, even now i'm 30? I know/think they have a working holiday visa type thing, but not sure it's the case now i'm 30.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@swskier, it might be thirty or under. Have a look on the immigration website. I don't think Japan will be open to foreigners this winter though I'm sorry to say, and I've wanted to go for the last two seasons. Very annoying.

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Hey, jumped in to say this and found it being discussed right at the end.

The working holiday visa for Japan can be obtained until you are 31. The day before your 31st birthday, you can still get it.

You can then enter Japan as a 31 year old on a WHV. Depending on how long that visa lasts, you could possibly even leave it in your passport and enter as a 32 year old - not so sure on this.

Source - I did this.

If you're serious about this pathway then I'd look into that. Wages in Japan are way higher than Canada and the whole working environment is wonderful.

Another thing to add to your list - I've only skimmed your thread, sorry - if you don't speak a foreign language, start now. The BASI foreign language tests are a bit of a joke, and maybe the Irish ones are too - I don't know. However, for getting selected for jobs it will be invaluable to be able to teach in something other than English. I can teach in 5 languages and it really, really helps when working abroad.

Final, final thing... doing this as a British citizen. Yeah, it's pretty scary now, but things are being worked out. I'd say you're in a good place because you've not been totally derailed by Brexit - you can sort out your L1 + 2 and your first year's experience and then have a look at how the land lies.

Feel free to drop me a PM if you'd like to chat through anything in detail.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

The visa I am referring to is a new class of sponsored visa (not working holiday), previously in order to get sponsored you needed to be full cert or have 36 months experience, now it will be just level 1.

If you can do any system other than BASI, I would recommend it, without the ability to work in Europe, the cost of their exams are pointless.

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@AdamNotts, thanks for the hints. Foreign language i've got some basic french from GCSE all those years ago, and am on a 6 month streak on Duolingo. It'll take time, but i'll keep at it.

I'll take a good look in to Japanese visa's.

@jimmer, Yes i'm doing IASI to remove any potential issues around EU/Brexit. Hoping something happens going forward visa wise.

General update, 4 of the 5 days done now. Feel like my own skiing is coming on, and i'm starting to push on with the personal skiing aspect. From a personal skiing front, my own skiing exceeds the standard required for L1, so we're really working on trying to push it on as much as possible. Main focus is on short turns, as these are weaker than my longs.

Teaching, my first proper teach was yesterday, and it went fairly well for a first time, a few points to pick up on but nothing major. Today we've spent pretty much all day teaching each other on our longs and plough parallel. Has been really useful to keep on with the teaching practise.

One thing i'm looking forward to in shadowing is picking up drills, I have a few in the head, but definitely want to expand my repertoire.

Screen shot below of some one foot, long turns.

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@Tubaski, i'm not 100% on it all, but unless visa's are sorted it, it's irrelevant, as I won't be able to work in the EU anyway. If visa's are sorted then by having the IASI badges as supposed to BASI, I hope it's one less hurdle to jump through. We shall see on that front.

On a totally different front is your username in reference to the Tuba instrument?

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@swskier, it is unlikely that anything will change with regards to visas. The EU blue card scheme already exists and EU members have their own immigration policies in place for third country citizens. In most cases you would have to get a job first, then your potential employer would need to sponsor your application for a work permit.

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So there's 2 things that you need across Europe to work at the moment - generally speaking. Recognition of your qualifications (if the country you're working in deems that snowsports require a qualification to work - France most definitely does!), and the right to work.

Each country is free to set its own rules as to what qualifications it recognises and who it'll allow to work there.

However, EU rules superceed national rules. This was the basis for the whole Simon Butler situation. France said 'our requirements for ski instructing are X', but SB said 'that's fine, but you must also follow EU rulings, therefore I'm declaring that I'm working here with Y.' There are other Simon Butlers out there - the original SB was in fact a German snowboard instructor using German qualifications. Same legal pathway.

Sadly, Brexit means that the UK and BASI are no longer in the EU, therefore we can no longer go over French (or whatever other nation) heads and declare our right to work. It makes sense that BASI qualifications are no longer automatically accepted, but what might come as a bit of a shock is that for UK passport holders, EU qualifications are also no longer accepted. The only qualifications that can be 'forced through' are EU qualifications held by EU passport holders. For example, a UK passport holder sitting an Irish qualification has no more right than a UK passport holder with a BASI qualification to teach in France. An Irish passport holder with that same Irish qualification however could not be denied his rights to use his qualification across the EU.

This leaves the procedure of equivalence, which must be conducted on a country-by-country basis. BASI have done very well for skiers in my opinion in managing to quickly revert to a situation where their L4 is accepted in the majority of countries, with the rest hopefully to follow. For snowboarders, they've not done well at all, and there's currently no pathway for snowboarders to teach in France via BASI alone. I'm unaware of what the status of the Irish qualifications in the various countries is (remember that a UK passport holder has no right to force any EU member to accept his Irish qualification). It is quite possible that UK passport holders who obtain an Irish L4 ski would not be allowed to work in France, but UK passport holders with a BASI L4 alpine would, and then UK passport holders with a BASI 4 SNB wouldn't, but an Italian with a Swiss top SNB would. A real mess. If anyone knows for certain on the Irish recognitions please drop it into the thread btw, I've been emailing them for a while trying to find out but they're not very responsive.

The second issue, completely seperate to the first, is the right to work. Previously this was supplied by simply holding a British passport, but that's no longer the case. It's maybe not all doom and gloom though - seasonal visas already exist, and there are talks of agencies being set up who will sponsor seasonal workers for a season at a time, for a fee of course. If you're really, really committed, there's probably a path in via permanent residency in an EU country which might actually take the same length of time as going from L1 -> 4 in any of the systems.

As a few people said at the start - have you considered a selection of facial piercings instead? Good luck!

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Yes - that's largely correct,

To explain what's happening - there's an agreement between all the nations that people with a certain selection of qualifications, e.g. BASI L4 + CTT, would be happily accepted into France and given a Carte Pro. However, this is not the only way to work in France. You do not need a carte pro to work in France - although from a practical standpoint you might...

Using the EU mechanisms mentioned, it's possible to declare (not request, as in the above pathway) your EU qualification. At this stage, it's up to the host country to prove that that qualification does not meet the required standards. Coming from a non-EU country it's different - you request equivalence for your qualifications instead of declaring your intention to teach with them, and the French are quite within their rights to deny your request, whereupon you'll have no recourse with the EU because you're not an EU citizen. For example, they could very simply deny the request of a BASI 4 snowboarder, because he is asking that his SNB qualification be recognised as equal to the necessary French qualification, which entails being able to ski.

Quite a few people have been teaching in France by doing this - L2s and 3s included. The French hate it, but hey, for SNB in particular, there's literally no other way unless you have an EU passport. In fact, due to some good work by BASI who've have their qualifications calibrated by Edinburgh University, a BASI L2 is actually seen as a higher level qualification than a French full-cert! Nuts, but there you have it.

Yes, an Irish SNB instructor should be able to work in France with their L3, or even potentially their L2, assuming he has an EU passport which means that pathway is valid. A UK citizen with an Irish L3 has to request to the French that his Irish L3 be recognised. It's apparently a case-by-case basis, but it's going to be a no.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Will Warren Smith be able to instruct in Switzerland next year? He’s a Brit and most of his instructors are too I think.

A snowHead

@davidof, IASI had two L4 exits in place when the Delegated Act came into force and EITHER version of L4 (ISIA speed test or old ET) got you grandfather rights for the CTT sticker.. This was a bit of a loophole within the DA. I know a few guys who have gotten CTT without an ET pass and at least one with the ISIA test .

Im not sure going forward that the Irish L4 Card with ISIA speed test will get you the CTT sticker and automatic recognition but I doubt it.

Annoyingly 4 or 5 years ago I asked BASI through a group letter to offer two exits for L4 but the old regime declined and when I approached IASI they thought it a great idea and implemented it.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@BobinCH, Warren is Swiss resident I believe as are a number of his staff. Dan our trainer for the L1 course has access to an Irish passport so will be able to continue working for Warren, assuming his passport arrives in time.

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So L1 done and dusted. It was a pass for me, which I'm really pleased about.

Really enjoyed the last 2 weekends, feel like my own skiing has come on, but also, and probably more importantly, I really enjoyed teaching and coaching within the group.

We spent a lot of time yesterday and today coaching each other, which was good fun.

It was noticeable that everyone improved throughout the course. Not actually sure who has and hasn't passed as I shot straight off after my debrief as had to get back for the girlfriends birthday! Don't particularly want to ask on the WhatsApp group in case some didn't.

Plan from here now is to get to Gloucester to do my shadowing hours, and the first aid course mid September. There's a L2 course running at Hintertux in the first week of December I want to go on. My trainer said that from a piste perspective he thought I could meet meet standard, what he's not sure on is bumps and variable purely because he hasn't been able to see it due to being inside. Having watching the videos I think I can meet the standard, so I'll go ahead and give it a whirl.

Also, good to meet @FatGeorge and friend who's username has slipped my mind today inside the fridge.

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@swskier, congrats and best of luck with the next steps. Hit me up if you make it to Verbier

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@BobinCH, thanks and I will do! Owe you a drink as it is for your Nestle contact!

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After all it is free

Thanks @davidof, really pleased to have got it done and got through.

Not wanting to sound like a stalker but with that jacket and boot combo you were hard to miss, I was at Hemel the other day and saw you there. I'm not surprised you passed L1, your skiing looked really good. Congrats on passing !

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@djf, thanks very much! The boots in particular certainly stick out! Laughing

If you see me there again, say hey! I might go down for some shadowing at some point, although it's a bit of a trek.

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Journey to becoming a ski instructor

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