 Poster: A snowHead
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UCN is a unique certificate number.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@AndAnotherThing.., looks like @Hells Bells, beat me to it.
OV used to be a simple, free, bit of box ticking. You’d go along and learn about the protocols for all sorts of government work from anthrax testing to meat hygiene. The emphasis was on ensuring you understood the gravity of putting your name (and professional gravitas) on an official document. All changed when DEFRA cut costs by farming the course out to a private provider. Suddenly there was a drive to increase standards which (quel surprise) meant paying for the privilege of demonstrating our common sense and integrity. Also became essential to break the qualifications into numerous panels, each with further assessments and costs. A general practice vet may now require 8-9 panels, all of which need regular revalidation
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Unsuprisingly many are dropping panels as they’re not worth doing. 2/3 of the vets in My clinic no longer hold any, when I graduated it was just assumed everyone would get and keep full OV status (then LVI, local veterinary inspector) as a matter of course.
I digress!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@gilo, no, I think everyone needs to understand why it is such a mess !! I remember the 'Ministry Vet' from All Creatures Great and Small (original version).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am an Italian resident so my dog is now on an Italian passport (because I expected our civil servants to fail at this hurdle). A friend who has a chalet in the Haute Savoie has two Bernese - she tells me that one is on a French passport, the other British. Other than using her chalet as a holiday home, she has no residency status. In other words, in France, it might just be down to the vet.
The procedure for the Italian passport was to have dog registered as "resident" (€20 to the village vet) and a three hour round trip to the Provincial Animal Health office for the passport which was issued on a "while you wait" basis after sight of the British passport (as proof of rabies serology rather than continuity of vaccination). €40.
An Italian pet passport only has seven Echinococcus spaces so after using those seven spaces we will need to use her British one for entry into the UK. €60 plus three hours driving is more than the cost of a British Pet Passport but it will save me having to think of an AHC prior to every trip (two or three a year).
In Italy I think that it's the vet's choice whether to administer a "one year" or a "three year" vaccine.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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As a follow on, I don't recall having to show the village vet my residency paperwork - she took my word for it. Maybe that was down to asking her very nicely in Italian!
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@Nemisis, I doubt I would have needed to pre-Brexit.
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@gilo, @Hells Bells,
In terms of OV status, nothing has changed ? The Vet still needed OV status to produce an EU pet passport ?
So if my OV vet has already administered the rabies vaccine (and done the blood test), administered all other vaccines and produced the EU pet passport 12 months ago, I'm struggling to see where the extra burden of cost is ?
I noticed in the link posted above, the AHC document was in the 'Animal Export' section. I wonder if temporary pet travel is a different matter to permanent export. Out of interest, what sort of conditions would prevent an AHC from being issued ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@AndAnotherThing.., I'm guessing any transmissible disease....
Or if the animal wasn't fit to travel due to welfare problems..
I'm wondering why we can't have our own UK Pet Passport and apply for type 1 status.
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@AndAnotherThing.., according to our vet the cost of registering a vet as OV has increased greatly, so there are limited appointments for them, and as a business, costs are passed onto the customer.
@Scamper, I'm not sure of the reasons, I'm sure @gilo, may be able to explain.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@AndAnotherThing.., I also think that before the issue of the AHC, the vet will have to physically examine the dog to ensure they are fit for travel, before completion of what looks like it is a 10 page form.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@AndAnotherThing.., my rantings may have conflated 2 separate issues. As per above, the time and cost of maintaining OV status has been increasing for years, nothing to do with AHC. So that relates to why getting a passport is more expensive than when an EU vet only charges €x to fill the worming section. Also why many vets have stopped being OVs.
Separately, filling in and processing an AHC is time consuming and therefore will be expensive. Not just me, many colleagues have confirmed it takes about an hour for the OV. The client only sees the 10 min it takes to examine the animal (which wasn’t a requirement of a pp) not the rest of it. As more vets bale on the whole shebang the stress on those left will be untenable and cost will have to reflect the time taken.
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@Scamper, as the whole thing was decided on Christmas Eve we’re lucky to even be a listed country (ie no blood tests). The EU was determined not to give UK special status (see cake and eat repeated as nauseum). Once the posturing blows over I’m sure somthing will eventually get arranged along the lines you envisage.
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You know it makes sense.
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@gilo, is the AHC an individual set of papers, i.e. each AHC has it's own unique identifier? Or a generic form that can be completed on a computer and then printed?
I'm wondering whether after the initial completion of the form subsequent ones won't take an hour, as long as the vet has retained the animals details which can then be electronically transferred to the new form, with only a few boxes that will be different and require completion/updating?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@gilo, thank you for your replies, they are much appreciated.
Apologies for badgering you regarding all this - feel free to ignore my questions, I'm should just wait and see rather than trying to fight it 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Scamper wrote: |
| @gilo, thank you for your replies, they are much appreciated. |
Same from me.
It sounds like it will be a few weeks to understand the full implications.
Presumably similar arrangements will apply to EU residents bringing their Pets into the UK.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
| Scamper wrote: |
| @gilo, thank you for your replies, they are much appreciated. |
Presumably similar arrangements will apply to EU residents bringing their Pets into the UK. |
No, if the animal has an EU passport entry into the UK hasn't changed - microchip, vaccinate v rabies, tapeworm treatment - all stamped and signed in the passport.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@AndAnotherThing..,
I expect the opposite - so long as the pets are current for rabies vacinations and have been treated for Echinococcus within the 24/120 hours window (as previously), I beleive that nothing else will be required. Edit: with a pet passport as previously
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Scamper, no worries! It’s a really good question re repeatability. At present it’s a paper form that needs to be filled/amended etc by hand and then certified, copied and copies verified. I’m sure there will be some time gains through familiarity but not much. If they could make them electronic where only parts need amending on 2nd+ journeys that would be helpful but as someone pointed out it’s based on animal exports so the system is in no way set up for ease of repetition.
Even if a large IT change is unlikely it’s surely doable to create a concise version in future, or a multi-use version where vets just certify repeatedly that the previous information is still correct on date x
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@AndAnotherThing.., it is early days!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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But on your final question, NOPE, EU residents will be able to back and forth just as now with their standard EU pet passports. UK government unilaterally declared they’d still accept passports for entry and the EU declined to reciprocate!
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| gilo wrote: |
| UK government unilaterally declared they’d still accept passports for entry and the EU declined to reciprocate! |
FFS 
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As I said earlier "I expected our civil servants to fail at this hurdle". At least someone had the balls to insist on UK driving licences being accepted. Pity about the green cards
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Scamper, update. Did a dry run today at work with the other OV. Some of the form is fillable in pdf so there will be a degree of time saving in terms of entering name, address etc if you save the pdf for use for future trips. Destination address may or may not need to be changed. But it’s pretty marginal and still took around an hour, we’ll speed up with familiarity but slow down when have to harvest all the details from the client so I’m still suggesting around 200 pounds. The stamping and certifying etc is still time consuming and by definition can’t be done by admin staff
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We have a good relationship with our vet and her team and I don't begrudge them a single penny of the money they earn treating and caring for animals but this feels different.... as though I'm being exploited. I know this isn't the case, as gilo has taken the time to explain (thanks  ), it's all work at a renumeration rate commensurate with the qualifications. I can't imagine many people apply to vet school with the aim of spending hours and hours on paperwork so I have sympathy for them too...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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That’s totally fair!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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That’s totally fair! no one would be more delighted than vets if the government could produce a single page document, that any vet could fill out saying “on this date animal x was examined and found to be in good health, I further certify that his rabies vaccine is valid until day y. “
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@gilo, Do Vets have a trade union like medical Drs have the BMA? If so will they be asking the Govt/Defra to simplify the AHC as you suggest?
I have written to my MP laying out the problem / cost this action will have caused and used the example of driving licences and also suggesting a quick fix of a simplified Pet AHC.I'll let you know if I get anywhere...
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You know it makes sense.
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@boredsurfin, I'll do the same if I get an opportunity later this week.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@gilo,
Better still, as well doing this by the book, can the BVA (British Vetinerary Association) spread the word to all members to seek out MPs and senior civil servants (who goldplated the rules in the first place!) amongst the client base to try and work on an informal "hearts and minds" basis?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I have been researching the AHC for the past two days including getting two quotes from different vet practices. They both came up with £125 and explained that it takes them one hour to complete the form and check the dog.
While I understand the overheads behind the apparent high prices the statement about one hour is ludicrous. I have studied the form, which although nine pages in the current version has only three pages where any entries are needed from an OV. It would take me a maximum of 15 minutes to fill in the form and the check on the dog only 10 minutes and probably less. Let’s take half an hour as realistic. The fair price would be £60, which is the estimated cost first given out by defra.
A further point is about acquiring a EU pp. Reading deep into EU documents it appears that an AHC will be required regardless of having an EU pp. The fact is that Uk is no longer part of the EU and a dog can only return from a non-EU country with an AHC. My plan to get one from my French vet has been thwarted. I am left with trying to find a vet who offers a reasonable price for the AHC.
Alistair
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| @boredsurfin, I'll do the same if I get an opportunity later this week. |
Well done, I think the more that write the better, the Kennel Club website doesn't give any indication they are bothered! Maybe they will in the fullness of time 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Alistair99 wrote: |
A further point is about acquiring a EU pp. Reading deep into EU documents it appears that an AHC will be required regardless of having an EU pp. The fact is that Uk is no longer part of the EU and a dog can only return from a non-EU country with an AHC. My plan to get one from my French vet has been thwarted. I am left with trying to find a vet who offers a reasonable price for the AHC.
Alistair |
Wonder what the time-frame cut off point is - theorectical dog from Germany holidays in the UK - how long before it's "poisoned" by this dodgy eu satellite.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
@gilo,
I have written to my MP laying out the problem / cost this action will have caused and used the example of driving licences and also suggesting a quick fix of a simplified Pet AHC.I'll let you know if I get anywhere... |
I have no idea about this but would suggest a letter to Chris Patten (guvnor of Hong Kong; he was pretty pissed off when he realised his dogs would have to spend 6 months in quarantine and then, I think, had a hand in pushing forward Pet Passports.
Guess we're going backwards - congrats, Brexit people (sorry, doesn't seem to be a smiley for "I'm fXcking boling and despise anyone who voted for Brexit" )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We have a problem and hope someone on here with dog transport experience can help. We were due to have a 15 week Schnauzer puppy, which we purchased from a reputable and recommended breeder from Czech Republic, delivered to us in London by the breeders trusted agent in January (with all correct vax and paperwork) . It seems now the agent can no longer make the trip due to Brexit and lockdown restrictions. They have given us the choice to cancel and get a full refund of deposit or have us meet them in Calais. I have called a couple of pet transport companies who are not yet clear on regulations (5 days into Brexit + lockdown). Anyone know if me driving to Calais to meet the breeder could be seen as an essential trip given there is a dog involved? Kids and me are already emotionally attached through videos etc so would prefer not to get a refund.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Ozboy, I have no direct experience, but I know many of the rescues are having similar problems with getting dogs into the UK. nn
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@Ozboy, On BBC News 24 Q and A Dr Susan Hopkins (Public Health England) was asked whether picking up a puppy from a breeder was allowed. She said that it would not be allowed. Broadcast just before 9:00 pm this evening.
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No, no experience, but I would suggest the problem is covid rather than brexit - as we've discussed up there ^ having an EU passport makes it easier to enter the UK.
Back of a fag packet opinon but I can't see your trip to Calais as being "essential" - I'd say get your refund and source a dog from a UK breeder or rescue kennel - have you contacted Schnauzer Rescue societies - I hope you don't think I'm being harsh but puppies are just puppies at 15 weeks and your kids won't know if you bring back a different one .. you're all grown up - you'll get over it... (I'm not unsympathetic...we've had 2 Giant Schnauzers (from UK breeders) but we're equally happy with our (current) 2 rescue whippets. )
Righto, I've jumped off my bandwagon - nope. I don't think you should go to Calais... not seeing "buying a dog" in there ...
"You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:
shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
attend education or childcare - for those eligible
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Alistair99, respectfully and politely, you’re optimistic on the timings. £60 wouldn’t have got you a pet passport in many places which is far simpler. I wish you good luck but I suspect you’ll be disappointed. Even the 125 smacks of people being afraid to charge fully for their time.
Do you have any links for you assertion that EU pp holders will need an AHC to enter the EU? That contradicts everything vets are being told....
Eg
https://www.gov.uk/taking-your-pet-abroad/travelling-to-an-eu-country-or-northern-ireland
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My daughter's dog is a rescue who came from Greece and she has a greek EU passport. Does anyone know whether that removes the need for the AHC? Thanks all!
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FAQ
