 Poster: A snowHead
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@LaForet, I agree driving is pretty safe, but I don’t think the rules can be so selective to distinguish between means of travel. I am locked up here in Wales and a drive to the mountains and a nice walk is not really going to be a big risk but I suppose if I slip and break a leg or something it puts a strain on everything.
In times like this it’s probably better for every one to stay at home as much as possible, not risk injury in another country and all that goes with it.
Not sure what the answer is really, but hanging around airports and flying across Europe is probably an unnecessary risk that the authorities deem not worth it.
That said, I may have to head to Asia soon (work) so I will be doing exactly what I am arguing against 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Agree travel is the risky bit. Hence car only, eurotunnel, no cafe/resto - take sandwiches and coffee. Only stop for fuel at pay at pump. Even pee bottle - last year had a catheter - brilliant - stick the drain out of the bottom of car door!!
Just finished 14 day weekend after spending 2 months in France on our barge. Enjoyed a month barge trip, long French lunches, cycling round empty French villages and countryside and all very quiet.
No checks on locator paperwork.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@colinstone, oh god yes, very safe way of taking a holiday
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If anyone travels to Switzerland against foreign office advice at the moment which is against all but essential travel they'll need to self isolate for 14 days on return. This wouldn't be a problem for me and my wife personally. What would be a problem is that my travel insurance would be null and void if either one of us had an accident whilst traveling against FO advice. Switzerland may have changed their entry requirements for the UK but the FO hasn't. Having wiped out in Zermatt in April 2017 requiring a Helicopter rescue courtesy of Air Zermatt and a 4 day stay in Visp Hospital requiring an operation to plate up and pin a shattered shoulder and snapped humerus and having to pay out for a number of other miscellaneous expenses. This was a very expensive accident and whilst I recovered everything from our insurance company when I return ed to the UK apart from absorbing the £100 xs and another small expense not covered. If the same situation occurred now my policy wouldn't pay out if traveling against foreign office advice - I've checked this out, I also have a policy linked to my bank account, again same response. From personal experience it's not worth the risk at the moment. We've regularly over the past 20 years skied most of the big Alpine glaciers pre season October/November for a season warm up and usually combined it with Mountain Biking or some hiking. Unfortunately at this moment in time we'll be holding fire for now, not worth the risk and faff if things go t#ts up.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Although I've said it on other threads, I forgot to caveat what I said here: that on our summer trip to CH the FO didn't blacklist Switzerland until we'd been out there 2 weeks, so we were covered by insurance. On the season thread, I do mention you'd need to get/extend/assure your Travel Insurance to give you the cover you need for Covid. As @Snowbandit says, if you went now with 'mainstream' Travel Insurance, many policies would not cover you because of the 'travelling against FO advice' exclusion. Now, a lot of people are reporting here that they've contacted their insurers and the rep says they are covered, but I would need a new, revised policy document that clearly stated this before I'd go. There are policies out there that will cover you, but there's also a lot of 'Covid wash' going on.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can you not just add the 3 euro per day insurance onto your lift pass?
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| Can you not just add the 3 euro per day insurance onto your lift pass? |
We don’t do euros in CH, but your point is perfectly valid nonetheless There are local solutions to this, available at points of sale.
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CHF - known as "chuffs" - same as the acrobatic alpine bird!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| colinstone wrote: |
| CHF - known as "chuffs" - same as the acrobatic alpine bird!! |
And usually going upwards rather than downwards! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@LaForet, worth checking the wording on your policy - some insurers invalidate it if you travel when FCO advise against “all travel” - which is not the same as the current position which is they advise against “all but essential” travel. Direct Line, for example, exclude the former but not the latter - there’s no requirement for you to prove your trip was “essential”.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@andy from embsay,
Many thanks for that information about Direct Line insurance. Here is the relevant section from their FAQ:
Q: “Am I covered for medical expenses if I'm diagnosed with COVID-19 while on holiday?”
A: “Yes, if you or any insured person travelling with you are diagnosed with COVID-19 or a pandemic disease, you'll be covered for medical and reasonable additional travel expenses. This only applies if you're not travelling against medical advice or visiting an area where the FCDO has advised against ‘all’ travel.”
So this seems to imply, that your insurance is still valid even if you are going to a country where the FCO has advised not to travel to apart from “essential” travel. But the rest of their FAQs, are a bit murky. They seem to say that you are not covered if the FCO advice says not to travel. Confusing.
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The bit I saw in their t&cs is your insurance isn’t valid if FCO advise against “all travel” - I checked on the FCO website and they distinguish between “all” and “all but essential”, so afaik the bit that the regulator would look at is the official exclusions. TBH Staysure (I think) allow you to pay a small extra premium to formally cover you if you travel against FCO advice.
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You know it makes sense.
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| zzz wrote: |
| Pruman wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| Just need UK to see sense & aknowledge that quarantine is pointless if coming back from country similar |
It's not pointless though is it? The virus doesn't travel all by itself, it gets spread by people moving around. If people don't move around it stays where it is. So stop the moving around. And anyone who insists on moving around might need to do the quarantine. At the moment the R rate is 1.6 and climbing - that means a doubling of cases every 9 days and shortening. How bad would you like it to get?
I know lots of people want to go skiing, totally understand, but the ignorance and immaturity on display is something to behold. |
But the point was, if infection rates are the same between countries then what is the point in quarantining between countries? |
Mainly because although all countries have Covid-19 they don't have the same Covid-19. There was a report on the BBC this morning that the predominant strain now circulating in the UK is not that from the 1st wave but a variant imported from Spain over the summer. So if we had locked down international travel more tightly our currrent wave might not have been so bad. And variant strains clearly reduce the chances of some forms of immunity.
In the long term that might make no difference, but prior to any vaccines being available it could mean the difference between needing/not needing national lockdowns.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| The bit I saw in their t&cs is your insurance isn’t valid if FCO advise against “all travel” - I checked on the FCO website and they distinguish between “all” and “all but essential”, so afaik the bit that the regulator would look at is the official exclusions. TBH Staysure (I think) allow you to pay a small extra premium to formally cover you if you travel against FCO advice. |
Many thanks for this. I read the FAQs and policy in detail, but it is confusing. So I called them, and this is what they said:
If the FCO advise against all but essential travel, you can still travel to that country and your insurance will cover you, including if you get ill due to Covid whilst you are abroad. But what you will not be covered for, is being able to cancel your trip, because the FCO have advised against all but essential travel! Which is a tautological explanation.
But I would be very careful: Direct Line said that they could not be responsible for determining (before you make a claim) what is “essential” travel. This leaves open the possibility, that if you did have to make a claim for say an injury on the ski slopes, then at that point the insurance company may take the view that you travelled against FCO advice, because your travel was not “essential”. Then you would not be covered.
Better to find an insurance company, that clearly and unequivocally will cover you even if you are travelling against FCO advice on any account.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks for that, but I think they’re stretching it a bit! Having worked in FS for a long time and dealt extensively with the regulator (including some insurance t&c debates!) they’d never get away with that - the T&Cs only state that the exclusion is if you travel when FCO says “all travel”. It doesn’t specify that your travel must be essential, and if they were to rely on that they’d need to specify what “essential” means. They don’t (and neither do the FCO) so the exclusion is simply against the FCO “all travel” advice - as long as it remains “all but essential” then you’re covered. Or indeed whether you could (for example) go skiing whilst on an “essential” trip (work etc).
But agree - for peace of mind something like Staysure is clearer (and it’s not a big premium - about £20 on an annual policy I think). Although (and I don’t think I’ve ever seen this before) I think Staysure say you’re not covered if the avi risk is above 2!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Poogle wrote: |
@andy from embsay,
Thank you for making that so much clearer
Indeed, who is to say that skiing is not essential! How dare they! and actually, if push came to shove, you could claim that an active vacation in the mountains was essential to your mental health.
But knowing insurance companies, and having successfully won cases against them in the past, this “essential” aspect gives them the sort of room to argue, delay and deflect, in the hope you will just go away; even if I’m the end you win your case. |
Absolutely! The irony is the argument I was having was with my own CEO - our underwriter’s quote system went wonky and quoted everyone who went for a quote car insurance at about £200 a year, including 17 year olds with sports cars. He wanted to rely on a clause that said we could cancel insurance in the first 14 days (which is there in case we found out someone had lied, not because our system screwed up). My view was that we should honour the quote as people had bought it (it was about 150 policies). In the end we did honour the price, which got us lots of kudos from the FCA.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| Can you not just add the 3 euro per day insurance onto your lift pass? |
Yes, that's what I'm advising but I'd say this anyway - the extra CHF 3-5 covers you for all incidents on piste and the cost of getting you to the hospital, particularly the £100/minute of helicopter transfer, plus charges for the medics, and for the pisteurs. Most winter sports travel policies will cover this too, but the difference is that with the assurance on the skipass, you don't have to fork out any money: it all happens and is covered without payment having to me made. Without it, you have to fork out all the money, you get these bills coming in for weeks afterwards, and have to reclaim each from your insurer.
But the skipass assurance supplement won't cover you for
Pharmacy medicines
State medical supplement charge
After 1.1.21 - Hospital charges re incident + subsequent surgery
Accommodation while the injured recuperates
Flying out someone to assist their recuperation/return, and their car hire and accommodation
Airport transfers in UK for injured and their assistant
Airport transfers in holiday country
Medical Repatriation*
*which is the really critical element of standard cover. Because it encourages the insurer to get you home if it looks like you're going to be stuck abroad for extensive recuperation/treatment. Medical repatriation may sound pricey at £20K+ but this can be a lot less than the cost of a long period of convalescence and/or further surgery. So they have an incentive to bring you home ASAP, which is what most people want.
The real problem is where travelling against FCO advice invalidates your entire policy cover or key parts of it. We know from the first wave of Covid that a lot of people had protracted arguments with their insurers, especially when they suddenly discovered what the obscure force majeure exclusion meant. Even if you're on firm ground, who wants an endless cycles of to-ing and fro-ing while you argue the toss? So, much better that you have a crystal-clear Ts+Cs about what's covered and what isn't before you travel: always talk to your insurer first and get explicit documentation, not just a statement from someone on the telephone.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| Can you not just add the 3 euro per day insurance onto your lift pass? |
But the skipass assurance supplement won't cover you for
... Medical Repatriation*
*which is the really critical element of standard cover. ... |
I'd argue that the really critical element of standard cover potentially missing from a ski-pass supplement insurance is third-party liability. Fairly sure this isn't included in Carre Neige (Savoie resorts), but haven't checked other countries/resorts. (It may sometimes be included in household or other policies, but you would need to check if this extends to overseas/winter sports).
If you accidentally lead to someone getting say Schumacher type injuries, then without third-party liability insurance it won't be £20,000+ but £20,000,000+.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| Evidence is emerging that a very similar CV virus was found by Chinese miners in 2013 and killed 4 of 6. Samples were taken to Wuhan BSL4 lab. I have no doubt curiosity killed the cat and scientists just had to have a play. Just like anthrax escaped from a UK Surrey BSL4 lab a few years ago, I am pretty sure that the same thing happened here. |
"I have no doubt curiosity killed the cat and scientists just had to have a play"
Far too much of this speculation and 'I definitely know what happened' nonsense going on...How the hell can anyone make these definitive statements with a straight face 
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@mountainaddict, where did you get that quote from?
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Evidence is emerging that a very similar CV virus was found by Chinese miners in 2013 and killed 4 of 6. Samples were taken to Wuhan BSL4 lab. I have no doubt curiosity killed the cat and scientists just had to have a play. Just like anthrax escaped from a UK Surrey BSL4 lab a few years ago, I am pretty sure that the same thing happened here. |
"I have no doubt curiosity killed the cat and scientists just had to have a play"
Far too much of this speculation and 'I definitely know what happened' nonsense going on...How the hell can anyone make these definitive statements with a straight face |
How true that is may need verifying. I read a respected journalist view that expressed the above (trying to find scource) and discussed that "the closest identified infection" to what is now labelled as Covid19, was that scource and held in Wuhan lab. Their actions within the lab were reportedly processess to assess human susceptibility and response. Given how effectively it's spread around the world, the projection of the written piece was that insufficient biosecurity COULD be key in release/escaping infection. It wasn't definite on this.
That's in general news publishing, as to it's accuracy I'd not know.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd agree with the poster earlier who advised getting things in writing.
It's boring but I always check the policy and make sure to pay more for cancellation refunds as well: I imagine a lot of people become injured in the first couple of weeks and that's a lot gone if you then have to come home early from a season.
Extrication from the piste is also worth asking about as helicopters aren't cheap and if you need proper pain relief the pisteurs and paramedics can't help: their system is heavily doctor-led so paramedics are bag carriers and little else. That means helicopter and Dr which as again someone earlier pointed out is fabulously expensive.
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Air Zermatt charged me £1800 for a 10 minute rescue ride down to the Helicopter base in Zermatt. My arm was strapped up and out came the card machine receipt issued and my insurance company arranged through Ski Club of GB paid out some 6/7 weeks later along with half a dozen other related expenses, x-rays at a private clinic across the road from the Heli base ,taxi ride down to Visp Hospital, re arranged flights, extra nights in the Hotel for my wife, hospital expenses for 4 night stay etc. Worth pointing out that in April 2017 my EHIC card covered my operation on my arm and shoulder medical fees etc. Switzerland has a reciprocal arrangement with the EU. Lets hope BJ comes out with deal before the end of December as the EHIC card might become worthless looking ahead. From my experience goes without saying if it goes pear shaped get receipts for everything. In Switzerland I had to pay for everything on the nose, my bank accounts and credit card took one hell of a battering. After all my claims were settled I was just under £100 out of pocket and this figure included my XS on the policy and the fact that the exchange rate worked slightly in my favour - I worked everything out methodically, you do this sort of thing when your parents were Yorkshire born and bred (although I'm technically a Scouser born in the great city) and your a Banker by profession - LOL
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Snowbandit56, In Verbier the Pisteurs and Air Glacier charged me nothing at all for the Heli to Sion hospital with a broken leg.
All I had to do was show my lift pass which has Assurance on it. No paperwork, nothing.
A quick check of my EHIC card and the hospital never even mentioned the cost of an operation and in-patient stay.
The swiss-EHIC excess was chf67 at the time (now chf92) and that is the sum total of everything.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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>I read a respected journalist view that expressed the above (trying to find scource)
Sunday Times Insight team a few months ago - 3 page spread.
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| colinstone wrote: |
>I read a respected journalist view that expressed the above (trying to find scource)
Sunday Times Insight team a few months ago - 3 page spread. |
I guess it's of interest to some, but probably should be in another thread rather than pushing this one in the same direction as many have gone.
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You know it makes sense.
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EHIC - understand from a BBC website comment that if your holiday starts before 31 Dec 20, EHIC remains valid for entire trip.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| colinstone wrote: |
| EHIC - understand from a BBC website comment that if your holiday starts before 31 Dec 20, EHIC remains valid for entire trip. |
That is correct.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Strong rumours of confinement in Swiss cantons coming this week which would close resorts for the month of November like in France...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There's a great documentary on Netflix about Air Zermatt. Very costly operation to run, I'd imagine
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| There's a great documentary on Netflix about Air Zermatt. Very costly operation to run, I'd imagine |
It could be the same documentary that Red Bull produced. It was called “THE HORN” (titter ye not). Here it is, really well made:
https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/shows/the-horn
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So with Switzerland drifting in to lockdown and England & Wales banning non essential travel, is U.K. still off the Swiss quarantine list ? most confusing indeed
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| So with Switzerland drifting in to lockdown and England & Wales banning non essential travel, is U.K. still off the Swiss quarantine list ? most confusing indeed |
The worsening situation in Switzerland doesn’t make UK arrivals a higher risk so why would the Swiss policy change? And why is it funny?
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@BobInCH Basically, the Swiss concept is that you can have a virtual 'air bridge' or 'travel corridor' between two countries of roughly similar infection rates. I vaguely recall the UK Government announcing exactly the same idea back in July. But for some reason, it's never mentioned any more ...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| colinstone wrote: |
| EHIC - understand from a BBC website comment that if your holiday starts before 31 Dec 20, EHIC remains valid for entire trip. |
That is correct. |
So 22 Dec to end March 21?? Only difficulty will probably be persuading the hospital that it is the case.
And my NW Flex Plus has some changes for 2021. Nothing really significant or of concern. Medical costs for C19 still covered unless FCDO advises against "all travel". That doesn't happen unless there is an all out war!!
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FAQ
