Ski Club of Great Britain Chief Exec resigns

A snowHead

Also - take a look at https://www.skiclub.co.uk/about-the-ski-club/press-centre/press-releases?page=1

Did the SCGB really issue no press releases at all (nada - zilch - zero) between October 2017 and March 2019? No announcement of the new CEO in 2018? Or has it judiciously edited its press release archive to remove the embarrassing evidence of failure?

Nothing between September 2016 and October 2017? Really?

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@pisteoff, Thanks for your post. I think that many of us on Snowheads (with some notable exceptions) have a lot of time for the SCGB and wish it well, even 'though some of us may not currently be members. Over the years leader days in Argentiere, Freshtracks holidays and more recently Instructor Led Guiding have been an important part of my development as an off-piste skier, as well providing many brilliant days on the mountain.

Davidof has hit the nail on the head regarding reactionary forces who don't want to adapt to the changing world, some of them I've met still think the SCGB gave in too easily to the ESF! I think it could be possible for the SCGB to survive in providing Freshtracks Holidays and ILG (the only reason I and I suspect many others would renew my subscription or indeed justify the high cost) but the clubs structure is grossly top heavy in terms of manpower and cost( just contrast it with the admin resources required by Snoworks) and clearly not sustainable in terms of income vs expenditure. The SCGB has steadfastly resisted facilitating and promoting peer to peer communication between its members, something which should be essential for the SCGB to actually operate as a club, again something many of the dinosaur contingent have resisted.

I can imagine the frustrations leading to the revolving door at the top with intransigence and refusal to accept how the world has changed.

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Echo the comments of snow Dave
Club was great with leader program until the arrest stopped that insurance this year has showed its limitations in cover
It’s relevance is the issue here the comments challenging the OP for posting on here just confirm the denial problems it faces they cannot expect to operate in some cozy world of their own
I particularly enjoyed the comment regarding “luck” as if the OP was a very naughty boy who had “got away” with revealing big secrets!

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Thanks from me too to @pisteoff for joining this thread. I have been a SCGB member for many years and used to value the rep system. Latterly I have remained a member to participate in Freshtracks off-piste holidays. I have saved more than my subscription cost through discounts. The printed magazine is a waste of money, imho. The website has also wasted a lot of money.
Insufficient account is taken of members' views. Perhaps too much attention is paid to reps?? I do hope the current council members can save the Club. The chalet operation in Flaine is surely a viable business in itself which must be continued. I tried it for the first time this year and would like to go back next winter.

After all it is free

I'm interested in the way my concerns have been interpreted by some. They arise from my view that private correspondence shouldn't be copied onto an internet forum, or published in a paper, or made public in any other way. Correspondence sent to someone as a member of a club or other society fits into this category in my view. I'd have the same view regardless of what the club or society is, as I do when posts have been copied from this forum to other locations without the author's permission.

I (incorrectly) believed the emails were to members of the SCGB only. Apparently I was incorrect, as the SCGB have sent the email much more widely. That wasn't clear from the emails, and the content of the second in particular didn't look intended to be shared widely.

To be clear, I'd have thought it perfectly reasonable to have a discussion here about the resignation of the chairman, based on a press release, but I didn't think that's what had been sent.

@sugarmoma666, do you not think that the unexpected departure of the CEO merits a press release? I'd have thought so, but the SCGB have not issued one, or at least their website has nothing and appears to be only sporadically updated. On the other hand, their Facebook group is updated several times per day, and also says nothing. I suspect whoever managed their web site is one of the departed, as it also still lists Ian Holt as the CEO, the day after his departure. That's really poor...

Then again, so far only PlanetSki has shown enough interest to publish the story - where's the national press, and why are they not interested in this story? Oh yes, maybe because they don't care about a club with only just over 10000 members, whose eventual and apparently inevitable disappearance will leave barely a whisper of an impact?

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@Dave of the Marmottes, I think the explanation is already fairly transparent if one reads between the lines (as you and I have done). The only question that really remains to me is how much (of any) of a payoff he receives. If it's nil (i.e. less than contractual minimum) that would suggest there were material adverse findings from the investigation.

However, I feel I'm drifting slightly into rubber-necking - the club has lost a lot of money and members, the CEO has lost his job (and potentially others ahve lost theirs; if the club had been run more competently maybe it would be better able to stay afloat and retain staff) and we're all a bit poorer for the weakening of a body that maybe could have much more for skiing/snowboarding than its managed to do.

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@snowdave, It would be supremely ironic if not entirely plausible if having effectively "sacked" the guy for financial mismanagement they then have to serve a hefty payoff because he was smart enough to build in watertight clauses there in his contract. wink

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You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@DrNo, it will have been the policy underwriters that have added those conditions to their policies, not the SCGB. Every other insurance company has done the same in the last few weeks.

A snowHead

@DrNo, it must either be the case that the insurance has never covered such events, or that the change applies to new policies only. The insurance company cannot unilaterally declare that you are not covered for something which you had previously been covered for during the course of the contract.

As always, it pays to read the small print. There is a difference between comprehensive insurance, and Comprehensive Insurance.

I'm insured with Virgin Money, whose policy when I took it out included cancellation cover where:

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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@spyderjon, @ousekjarr, the FCO advice exclusion was in the policy pre-corona; I bought my policy in Jan.

My error was in assuming that the FCO would not suddenly advise against travelling to a major European nation in the 3 months between policy inception and trip!

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@ousekjarr, The FCO bit was in the small print and I had seen that. To be honest I never envisaged a time where I might be travelling against FCO advice although I see that many insurers do cover for changes to FCO advice. I do not recall anything about infectious diseases in the small print (and I did read it all before renewing the policy (!), particularly the sports covered and off piste requirements and have advised Snowhead members on the inclusions/exclusions in several threads) No mention was made of SARS or any other coronavirus subtype infection, pandemic or otherwise (obviously COVID wasn't identified when I renewed in Nov '19) in the policy documents.

The Platinum cover is an interesting one where it is a single policy held to cover all Platinum members (one policy number) so I am unsure whether changes can be made to the global policy at the time of renewal even though members are being added/removed all the time.

@spyderjon, I realise that it was not SCGB who initiated this term however I assume that they chose the level of policy they wanted to sell to members and probably had a hand in choosing the underwriters. I dont think that TFI/TFI's chosen underwriter always underwrote SCGB Platinum policies and I can only assume that the change in underwriter was initiated based on cost. The club are at great pains to market how comprehensive the cover is yet when you (potentially) need to claim on it isn't

Anyway, this is drifting a little off topic, the original point of my post was to suggest that a little more consideration to what members actually join the club for (like leading and proper comprehensive winter sports insurance) might be beneficial in stopping the decline in membership and going some way to restoring a more healthy financial position. I might be talking rubbish though!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

This is standard for annual policies. I always use BMC annual insurance. If you (say) booked in December for a trip in May and your policy renewed in March then your new policy wouldn’t have covered for cancellation expenses incurred due to Covid 19 after the new policy commenced, there is no carry forward of protection.

When I have taken out SCGB membership in the past it’s always been for the core products, I’ve never been attracted by the fringe benefits as I can get discounts and insurance elsewhere. I fear that the SCGB’s strategy of using these bolt ons to justify the high subscription following loss of ski leading has not been successful enough in maintaining the income to fund the SCGB’s grossly oversized overheads.

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@On the rocks, What are the core products in your opinion? Leading would have been my primary one and Freshtracks trips the second. I agree that I did not become a member for a magazine or discounts!

The insurance was not a reason to join the club for me, it was however the reason I took out the "Platinum" membership as this effectively insured me for all European trips with what I felt to be comprehensive medical/cancellation/indemnity/ski cover for around £35 per year at its inception.

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@DrNo, I guess it may be different for different people but for me Freshtracks Holidays and Instructor lead guiding. Insurance is something I don’t just buy on price. BMC is not the cheapest but as been excellent when I’ve needed to claim, also of course it covers me for my climbing trips

After all it is free

Freshtracks and, in the past, leading are the only reasons why I have been a member. Freshtracks could be run as a business on its own without requiring payment of a subscription to SCGB.

I must admit to having been a bit puzzled when Council at the time decided to hire the Treasurer under whose watch the Club had unexpectedly lost gobs of money. Must have been a sound reason at the time (perhaps he was the only one willing to put his hand up).

Under a new Chairman and new General Manager, I do think the Club needs to dramatically narrow its focus rather than trying to be all things to all people. What is the core that its target audience really wants and is willing to pay some sort of subscription for because they see the value. A more focused Club may be able to operate on a much lower cost base.

Here is what I see as being core:
Repping/Leading service... Still seems to be seen as an incredibly important core service. Need to find a better way of navigating the legal hurdles. I suspect the repping service today is very expensive to run. Need to find a way to scale back the costs. If a resort isn't willing to billet the rep, then bin that resort. Rep gets hotel and lift ticket paid for by the local resort. They need to find their way there and back and assume any miscellaneous costs that aren't covered. Rep course can be run under Freshtracks on a cost recovery basis. Probably need a staff member to administer and liaise with local tourist offices
Freshtracks... is and needs to be run on a "commercial" basis, designed to make a small profit each year to provide a cushion for when things go horribly wrong as they have the last two seasons. Small staff needed to run this.
Discounts... popular with members. Part time role for someone to coordinate with current and prospective partners. Doesn't cost the Club anything, so may as well do it
Simple website... Cost of doing anything today. Do something on Wordpress for a few thousand quid. Increase the use of third party tools like Facebook. Allow members to actually communicate back and forth with each other trough your platform. What a novel concept. Encourage members to be the ones contributing content rather than paid staff.

Not sure:
Insurance... this is done through third party carrier in any event. If the Club can negotiate a more favourable policy for members than what is commercially available and perhaps earn a small kickback in the process that covers the cost of figuring it all out on behalf of the members, then by all means keep it. Otherwise there are plenty of travel and medical insurance companies out there who do the same thing.

Not core:
Ski Survey
Extravagantly designed useless website that requires full-time maintenance
Trying to be the voice of wintersports for the UK.
Anything requiring a large staff to manage that does not pay for itself

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@Levitt, I think I've said elsewhere that if SCGB wants to survive and be purposeful and attract new members then it needs to question whether it should operate on a Pay-to-play model rather than a walled garden which is mainly full of some not all that attractive but costly junk.

Why on earth Freshtracks can't operate autonomously, priced at its all in costs with a kick back to SCGB funds and sell direct to all I don't know (probably comes down to a not insignificant sum paid for a TO back in the day) is a bit of a mystery for starters.

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I was a member for a while - for insurance, essentially. Didn't get any emails though. Just reading through this thread it seems to an outsider who knows nothing that without the leading/repping there is simply no purpose which would sustain the SCGB as a physically real institution with an office, and staff. If it didn't exist, would anyone feel the need to invent it?

You know it makes sense.

I think the club HAS to bring back the leading service. It was the core value delivered for most members and, without it, membership will continue to decline to such a point that the club dies.

I simply don't agree that it can't be reinstated; not by fighting pointless, protracted and hugely expensive legal battles but by thinking laterally and coming up with a way to do it which complies with the letter of the legislation.

One way to do it would be for all the leaders to achieve the BASI basic instructor level qualification. I think that most, not all, of the previous leaders would be able to reach this level. Having done this, what would then be needed would be for the leader to become an associate (unpaid) of a local ski school in the resort since a basic instructor could not operate solo. If the quid pro quo was that all instructors would then be sourced from the relevant ski school then I don't think it would be that hard to arrange.

So, a bit of a pain to setup BUT, once done, would allow the continuation of the leading service - at least on piste.

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Not a cat in hells chance of achieving that in France. There is a leading service here already led by a British Independent ISTD instructor.

A snowHead

@Blackblade,

How would an instructor become an associate member of a ski school? Not sure if there is such a position in France wink

A snowHead

@Blackblade, given that such a person, if indeed it were possible, could not operate solo and would have to be accompanied by a French instructor anyway, why not just dispense with the SCGB "leader" entirely? Plus, the instructor is not instructing - they are guiding, and need a different level of qualification for that, so now SCGB would be paying to provide a qualified guide in each resort every day to however many (or few) members turned up without having to book in advance or pay anything. And you think they have financial difficulties now?!? Shocked

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

SCGB crashes and burns.

Wonder what will take its place? Smile

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@Blackblade, Not a chance, face up to reality, the SCGB needs to change or die, continuing to fight this lost cause will just hasten the latter. However I get the impression that some members would prefer death to change

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Hoping we are not witnessing the death throes of SCGB, but fear it may well be the end. The whole "facebook/forum" debacle has been painful to watch... Clearly indicates a mgt who have lost touch with their customers (or those who they would liner to have as customers).... as evidenced in giving up the leading service.

As an aside, Neilson canned their independent forum, much to their customers annoyance, but they are so far weathering the storm.

guess we'll wait and see...

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So much pessimism and defeatist attitudes. Where there's DG, there's a way!
He is the members' champion.

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Just to be clear, there is nothing that stops someone instructing or leading a club group in France if they are not receiving pay, even off piste. It is the remuneration part that causes difficulties.

After all it is free

...and without the SCGB liability insurance covering them.

So that’s fine then - anyone wanting to pay for their own season let, drinks, food and pass in return for leading SCGB members without insurance, please sign up below:

I'm a member (or that's what I'm called - but it isn't really a club). I'm a bit fed up.

Our family membership runs til October, I'll cancel the direct debit now and restart if something good happens, but I very much doubt it will (as Eeyore might say)/

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To those on this thread who say leading/repping is dead, I beg to disagree. I did have the opportunity to ski with reps for a couple of days this winter and actually found it to be BETTER than under the shackles that had been in place for the last two decades. We had the opportunity to go to place off the beaten track that would have been verboten under the old regime. The only difference is that the Rep wasn't leading everyone around by the nose... we got to chat and say "what would we think of going over there" and off we went.

Just need to figure out a way to recognize reps if you do not already know them.

Help!!

Ski Club of Great Britain Chief Exec resigns

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