 Poster: A snowHead
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davidof, From the same Monde article (ref research funding), quote:
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| The programme sponsor is pleased with the result: "Mission accomplished", says the American company York Snow Inc (80 employees, t/o 40 million Euros in 2003). |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ref. Tignes glacier (open 19th June to 5th September 2004 from 0730 to 1330)
Snow cannons will be operational on the Rimaye and Grand Plan pistes.
On the Grand Pissaillas (Val) there is as davidof says a project for snow-making under way, not sure when it will be completed. (The glacier, depending on conditions, will be open from 26th June to August 15th.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, From the same Monde article (ref research funding), quote:
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| The programme sponsor is pleased with the result: "Mission accomplished", says the American company York Snow Inc (80 employees, t/o 40 million Euros in 2003). |
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That doesn't of course mean that the results are not correct and it is good for the French to seek private funding for research rather than relying on the taxpayers infinite pockets. I also think MW are right to raise questions over the findings, for example make a comparative study of areas using natural and artifical snowmaking.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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davidof, Very true. The project's science spokesperson herself queried the findings according to the Le Monde article.
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[Despite the presence of faecal contaminants] The authors of the study do not conclude that there are any pathogenic implications for man. “To clarify this a research programme would have to be undertaken specifically examining the survival and development of these pathogenic agents in snow”, writes Françoise Dinger, for whom the problem isn’t so much represented by the presence of micro-organisms, which are to be found everywhere in the environment and natural snow, but rather in their method of propagation and their quantity. “What is an acceptable level?” asks the researcher, who asked this question two years ago of the French Health Ministry, as well as of the Health Advisory Bureau.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PG,
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If anything, my comment was a truism, rather than a generalisation.
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then so were mine 
Alan Craggs,
iii) you are right
ii)better & cheaper
i)not quite. CFC is not food, it was known not to be toxic when inhaling a small quantity. When CFC was approved nobody knew about about the ozone hole . More important, in CFC's case it was the scientific community who assesed the damage and there was enough scientific proof . Now for the tricky bit: in science you never know for sure. We don't have the rules of nature, we have some approximations. We never have all the possible outcomes, just rigurous testing for all known posible outcomes. Yes sometimes we are surprised, but more often we are not. The post modernist thesis is:
Because it is not perfect, "classic" "old school" science is no better than the unproved, untested ideas that any of us might have. Some even state that subjective ideas and impresions are superior. No change should be made until we are 100% sure of all consequences, which means closing all research facilities. Many eco warriors would like nothing better. This is not a generalisation, it is a conclusion drawn from their adopted phylosophy.
Richard Feynman's "the Meaning of It All" is an excelent easy reading on how scientific methodology works. Richard Feynman is a physics Nobel prize winner.davidof,
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If the water supply is not pure - sometimes the case in ski resorts with their overloaded sewage treatment systems, then snomax will proliferate undesirable and unnatural micro-organisms as well
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This is an argument against all forms snow making, and not against Snomax in particular?
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- A spokesman for the Mountain Wilderness association, Vincent Neirinck, fears that this study maintaining that Snomax is innocuous "will prove to be the excuse resorts need to put snow cannons everywhere."
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how is that? if higher up the temps are lower and Snomax is very expensive, then current technology should work better higher up.
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"We’ve reached the crazy situation where a hectare of artificial snow requires 2.4 times more water that a hectare of maize, itself a high water consumer.
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Some grow maize, some grow snow, how is that crazy? Is groving maize craizier than growing some other crop that requires less water?
It seems that the people quotedare against all forms of snow making, so why don't they say so instead of
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Without wanting to call into question the credibility of the study, ecologists remain wary of the Snomax product.
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Look sugardaddy, I've no wish to prolong our discussion, and you mentioned before that English isn't your mother tongue, but I'm simply not saying the things you seem to think I'm saying. And this isn't the place to debate all the logical fallacies; appeals to authority, false analogies, statistical syllogisms, straw man arguments, and especially true in earlier posts, the false dilemmas.
When an example of a false dilemma argument appears, it is wrong to infer that the person criticising the stance in question is in favour of an alleged single alternative option. Hence if someone states "all environmentalists are extremists, all scientific conclusions are accurate and objectively arrived at" I will argue that that there are alternative options. If someone states that all "all environmentalist views are reasonable and objective, all scientific arguments against are influenced by funding from various economic interests", I will argue just as strongly against.
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PG,
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Acacia's comments were unjustified in my opinion, although I sympathise with her feelings about the fundamentalist 'quasi-religious' elements, they are not representative of the whole spectrum of the environmentalist movement.
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First off, Acacia's feelings are "his" not "hers" 
However, I'm not trying to condemn the whole spectrum of the environmentalist movement, largely because I like to consider myself a part of this movement. What I object to is the activities of the spokespersons representing some very prominent and well-funded pressure groups who deliberately set out to misrepresent the evidence to the public, through their public relations strategy. My experience of this is largely in the context of the GM issue, because that's where I have a certain amount of knowledge and experience.
When spokesmen for Friends of the Earth and the Soil Association tell me, privately, that there are applications of this technology that they could not conceivably argue with, but that they cannot say this publicly because they are engaged in a political and ideological battle, then it makes me very wary of ANY statement made by ANY environmentalist pressure group.
- Remember, my first "campaigning" post in this thread (to distinguish it from my very first post, which set out to give a little bit of backg=round about Pseudomonas syringae) was to caution against the hyperbolic use of language by an opponent of "snowmax".
- To return to the ORIGINAL subject of the thread (although this is becoming quite an enjoyable and robust debate) I have no views pro- or anti- "snowmax", and nor will I have until I've had time to learn a lot more about it!
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PG,
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I've no wish to prolong our discussion
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finally, we agree on something.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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P G
Bit of a long word for a Monday, innit?
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Acacia, Oops, why I should associate a thorny, 'spiky' tree often found in arid regions with a 'her', I've no idea!
As for the battle of 'ideologies', the spokesmen for all interests groups believe that they are obliged to keep things simple - if the arguments aren't put across in 'tabloid' form, they are just not understood. Witness the so-called debates in the House of Commons these days. I share your scepticism and regret the spin.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not for long, possibly the last trip - it's going to be cold and clear for a couple of mornings, then a lot of cloud and snow forecast from Thursday through to at least Monday, above 2200m.... Next week the glacier's still open though... tempting!
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You know it makes sense.
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Warning - I'm going  for a bit
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a thorny, 'spiky' tree often found in arid regions
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and the cause of many a puncture on my bike. Even with slime in the tubes and slime tape (kevlar) inside the tyres. And the blossom can cause hayfever. It's unusual however in being one of few desert trees which will thrive almost anywhere without irrigation as long as the goats are kept away from it long enough to let it become established.
PG - I think conditioning led most of us to assume the 'ia' ending of Acacia was feminine.
An interesting thread - thanks to all who contributed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Warm weather snow-making back in the news, with this Newsweek article about SnowMagic.
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| The machines freeze water inside a refrigerated compartment, pulverize the ice, then blow the "snow" out of a tube. Yes, some of it melts on warm days, but pile it up quickly enough and it self-insulates, allowing it to last surprisingly long. The downside: warm-weather snow makers start at about $500,000 and use lots of electricity. |
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| Cold-weather snow-making companies say the upstart's equipment costs at least five times as much as theirs; some claim operating costs are 20 times higher. |
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| But SnowMagic, which now has 14 year-round employees, is undeterred. Last fall it made its first sale to an amusement park, in Kent, England, where Brits spent four months schussing down a small hill, holding kids' birthday parties and having snowball fights. |
Anyone know where this is?
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Poster: A snowHead
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PG, http://www.thesnowpark.co.uk/ is a link to it. I got the link from the Skiclub website. It's part of "Diggerland" - a JCB oriented funpark. There was a webcam in winter and it was bizarre as the slope was so short, but you got to see trains go past! Also it appears that their grooming technique used a JCB scoop!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's a place called Diggerland. I kid you not. A place where people see JCBs perform, or something.
The snowslope even had a webcam. There's a website, but I'm a bit short of time right now.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| A 1500 m² main slope, approximately 50 m long and 20 m wide |
Shurely shome mishtake. I make that 1000 sq m.
It's not very big however you do the 'riffmetic
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Perhaps they get the extra 500m² from all the dips and moguls
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not sure, but I think you can order snow from Diggerland to be delivered to your house should you ever get the yearning for a white Christmas in your very own back garden.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Referring to Snowmagic, Newsweek wrote: |
| Next month the firm will deliver a system to a Saudi Arabian shopping mall, which will create an indoor snow park. |
I suppose no more ridiculous than golf courses in Dubai.
| Referring to Diggerland, thesnowpark.co.uk wrote: |
| Children (and adults if they wish) have the opportunity to ride in, and drive, different types of construction machinery including Dump Trucks, Mini Diggers and Giant Diggers (all under strict supervision). |
Brilliant. And I bet its all the dads that want to drive the diggers.
Some time back there was a thread about a resort (Les Arcs?) allowing punters to experience a night in a Piste Basher. They should go one further and allow (fare paying) punters to drive them.
I'd pay €50 for a short bash.
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If they want some really environmentally friendly snow, they could always come and defrost my freezer for me 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I just want to ski on the planet, not save it.
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Good job really. To think that humans can save the planet. It'll be there carrying on perfectly happily long after we're all buried and forgotten. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skanky, you're not alone with that idea. James Lovelock put forward the Gaia Hypothesis which basically says the Earth is alive and reacts in response to changes.
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Lovelock points out that Gaia, being ancient and resourceful enough to have carried out these successive changes of the planet in spite of asteroid collisions and other setbacks, is herself probably not endangered by the relatively momentary depradations of the human species, as it befouls and cripples the bio-dynamics of its environment. Rather,the danger is to the human race, not only from our own actions, but also by Gaia's reaction to them.
He adds the caveat however, that the passage of a bullet is also momentary, but the damage nontheless lethal, and that we are not in a position yet to say whether or not some sudden, human caused imbalance, at a critical juncture, might be catastrophic to Gaia.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Or 'tis merely a feedback system that may wobble a bit but tends to stay within a reasonably stable set of limits. There's been a number of mass extinctions up to now, life'll carry on (or re-start) after another.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hopefully enough for a run down a wold. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A bit of the white stuff on the wolds does make for a nice sight, I'm a little lower down though.
I was adventurous today and headed out west for a meeting, I climbed some collosal peaks just to the east of Melton Mowbray on the B676, some of them soar as high as a couple of hundred feet above sea level - that's heady stuff for us lowlanders.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I can imagine. I've lived near the fens in Norfolk and a mate of mine used to get a nosebleed just going onto the main roads.
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FAQ
from me for a while! I'm off up to Val D so hopefully I'll start making sense again by tomorrow (no guarantees... 
