 Poster: A snowHead
|
@Mr Marmot,
| Quote: |
I believe £110 ski carriage to be profiteering and neither BA or Inghams look good because of it.
|
I don't think it is profiteering because you have a clear choice whether to use this service or not. If you see a bottle of Louis Roderer Cristal champagne on sale for £132 is that profiteering? No, it's simply the price. Pay it or not as you choose. You haven't considered the possibility that maybe BA don't actually want to carry your skis. Skis are a right pain for airlines, so most try and discourange their carriage by pricing accordingly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@kat.ryb, that would be true if it was a scheduled BA flight but it isn't. It is a charter and the TO sets the rules.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
[/quote] I don't think it is profiteering because you have a clear choice whether to use this service or not. If you see a bottle of Louis Roderer Cristal champagne on sale for £132 is that profiteering? No, it's simply the price. Pay it or not as you choose. You haven't considered the possibility that maybe BA don't actually want to carry your skis. Skis are a right pain for airlines, so most try and discourange their carriage by pricing accordingly.[/quote]
I find this comment strange , the OP has to use BA on this occasion as he is going on a ski holiday with a ski TO , BA have no problem at all carrying skis , and they don't charge a penny for them either .
this is down to the TO charging a fee as its their charter (BA just supply and drive the bus not set the rules)
the charges are steep so yes they are trying to profit as thats what TO's do for their shareholders
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
[quote="rob@rar"]
| Mr Marmot wrote: |
| Vote with your wallet, fly Swiss or Lufthansa (who still do free ski carriage?). |
And Scandinavian Airlines. Ski bag and a boot bag can be your free checked bag.
I find that Norwegian air, for a "low cost" operator is great. Ski carrage is £20-29 (and £33 long haul) each way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
surely on this occasion inghams chose the airline , Its a charter , not scheduled !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| harvsurrey wrote: |
| BA have no problem at all carrying skis , and they don't charge a penny for them either . |
BA used to offer free ski carriage, which was in addition to your usual 23kg hold luggage. That policy stopped several years ago, so the only way to carry skis on BA without incurring extra charge is as part of your 23kg allowance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| harvsurrey wrote: |
| BA have no problem at all carrying skis , and they don't charge a penny for them either . |
BA used to offer free ski carriage, which was in addition to your usual 23kg hold luggage. That policy stopped several years ago, so the only way to carry skis on BA without incurring extra charge is as part of your 23kg allowance. |
correct therefore BA do not charge to carry skis , BA charge for luggage in excess of 23kgs ........... the luggage allowance was higher when BA did carry skis , as it was 2 23kg bags 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| harvsurrey wrote: |
| correct therefore BA do not charge to carry skis... |
Which you could say about all airlines which offer a maximum length on their one piece of hold luggage which exceeds the length of a ski bag. But I suspect most people would find that a bit of a misleading statement, as I think "not charging a penny for ski carriage" would be interpreted by most people as meaning carrying a ski bag in addition to your normal 20kg or 23kg hold allowance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@harvsurrey, @harvsurrey, When you book through a TO they tell you the flight details before you book, so you know the airline and they will tell you the cost of taking skis at that moment. If they subsequently increase the cost then you have a genuine gripe, otherwise it's part of the price and you can take it or leave it. You can argue that the costs are high but I'm not sure they are being unreasonable or profiteering.
I still think there is more to this story as the Inghams website clearly states the charge in charter airlines is £49, not £55.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
I still think there is more to this story as the Inghams website clearly states the charge in charter airlines is £49, not £55. |
£49 is only at the airport. It is £35 if booked in advance and it is return.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Gaza wrote: |
| It is £35 if booked in advance and it is return. |
Which is the standard BA charge for an additional hold bag on short haul flights. Something odd here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| harvsurrey wrote: |
| correct therefore BA do not charge to carry skis... |
Which you could say about all airlines which offer a maximum length on their one piece of hold luggage which exceeds the length of a ski bag. But I suspect most people would find that a bit of a misleading statement, as I think "not charging a penny for ski carriage" would be interpreted by most people as meaning carrying a ski bag in addition to your normal 20kg or 23kg hold allowance. |
I certainly dont find it misleading as its correct and is the same as most scheduled airlines
Easyjet however charge for a definative item of skis.
So do many TO's i am sure the answer is the same for Ryanair
So it is correct that BA do not charge for ski carriage and i expect to stick within the airline weight restrictions.
There are a few airlines who will carry skis in addition to the luggage allowance , in the same way BA offer an additional 23kg carry on allowance
If you actually check swiss they actually state 23kgs hold luggage 8kgs hand luggage and they will carry your sports equipment within your hold allowance
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| harvsurrey wrote: |
| If you actually check swiss they actually state 23kgs hold luggage 8kgs hand luggage and they will carry your sports equipment within your hold allowance |
I remember there was a discussion here on that before the winter, and the page on the Swiss website which states that skis are carried within hold allowance was incorrect, and was contradicted elsewhere on the Swiss website. I've carried skis in addition to my usual hold luggage with Swiss plenty of times, including once this season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Gaza wrote: |
| Not quite @rob@rar. It is £36 at LGW but £60 at LHR. |
God, it's changed again. I used to take 8 or 10 flights a year with BA on the LHR-GVA. After they stopped carrying skis for free I now take maybe 2 flights on that route with them, and now Swiss is my usual airline on that route.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Swiss depends on the ticket you bought to make life more confusing
And i have also carried skis free with swiss
However i did the same (yes in addition to my 23kgs) with ba at christmas to the usa
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| harvsurrey wrote: |
| However i did the same (yes in addition to my 23kgs) with ba at christmas to the usa |
Did you have a connected flight? I flew BA to Sapporo via Tokyo Narita in Economy . The Narita-Sapporo leg included two bags @23kg, and because it was on the same ticket as the London-Narita leg the two bags allowance was extended to all parts of the journey.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
To answer some questions raised above;
The flight is from Gatwick to Salzburg on Saturday 30th January at 09.25.
Four months ago I queried the system of not pre-booking ski carriage but paying at check-in and my TA advised that this was the new way that BA would deal with all ski carriage. I then contacted Inghams myself and they confirmed what I had been told. I asked the question about how we could be sure that there would be room for all skis in the hold and was told that there was enough space for every passenger to have two bags each and a pair of skis each!
It has been mentioned 'that there must be more to this, and there is. I was originally advised that ski carriage would cost £30 each way! It was only when I received our 'tickets' a few days ago that I noticed the £55 each way charge. I immediately contacted our TA. Our TA contacted Inghams who confirmed the new cost of £55 and suggested that we kept our receipts for the ski carriage charge and then make a complaint to Inghams on our return. We have emails from Inghams confirming the £30 cost and the no pre-booking rule.
I maintain that someone is profiteering with these ski carriage charges. I cannot believe that the costs for handling and transporting a pair of skis for an airline exceeds even £15 each way. Someone is making a hefty profit at our expense!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Mr Marmot wrote: |
To answer some questions raised above;
The flight is from Gatwick to Salzburg on Saturday 30th January at 09.25. |
If your flight number is BA2654 that's not a charter service, that's a regular scheduled service that BA operate. Do you have a PNR (6-digit code, mostly letters but maybe some numbers)? If you do, you might be able to log on to BA's website and change your own booking, including adding luggage at their normal rates.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Mr Marmot wrote: |
To answer some questions raised above;
The flight is from Gatwick to Salzburg on Saturday 30th January at 09.25. |
If your flight number is BA2654 that's not a charter service, that's a regular scheduled service that BA operate. Do you have a PNR (6-digit code, mostly letters but maybe some numbers)? If you do, you might be able to log on to BA's website and change your own booking, including adding luggage at their normal rates. |
Yes, that is our flight number. I presumed it must be a charter flight since it was in a TO package. From our point of view we don't care what sort of flight it is. We just pay the TO for a ski holiday and expect them to sort out all the details. However, when this includes a ski carriage charge of £110 which we only find out about a week before we travel then I don't think the ski holiday TO is doing a great job.
The only reference number we have is a seven digit numerical code.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Mr Marmot wrote: |
| From our point of view we don't care what sort of flight it is. |
I understand that, although I think the key point is that as a scheduled service BA are charging their regular fees for additional baggage, which according to the chart highlighted by Gaza is £72 for an additional bag up to 23kg on your route.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ski bag with both pairs of skis
2 carry ons with boots plus anything else you can fit in standard size carry on
2 small rucksacks with anything else
That will get you on the plane foc
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
With a 23kg ski bag and 23+8kg carry ons I could take 2 pairs of skis, boots, all my race kit, spare base layers and socks, shell layer plus some casual cothes and essential toiletries. Could probably fit in a ipad and an SLR camera...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gaza, I am impressed by your ingenuity and I thank you for researching options.
We are a group of ten and I haven't got time to put your proposals to everyone at this late stage. Not all were taking skis anyway. And most others have changed their plans and will hire instead due to the hefty ski carriage costs.
The whole idea of booking with a TO was to make things simple and it hasn't turned out that way.
Whilst re-reading the final documentation recently received I have also noted the other unexpected charge previously mentioned in a post on this forum; Inghams advise that they now expect us to pay the daily tourist tax directly to the hotel during our stay. They mention this will be €1-3 per person per day. I wonder what other unexpected incidentals they will come up with? I suppose the term 'package' can no longer be used for these holidays any longer!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Its a real shame when people find a TO adding more and more.
We have always travelled independently for our ski trips and this type ogf post again reinforces this.
Hope your trip is a good one
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@Mr Marmot, I am with @kat.ryb, here. In some ways BA are much better than many other airlines as they do not care about the dimensions of your hold bag. Are you stressing too much on the concept of "the skis go in an extra bag". Why.
I can not see what your problem is, as has been mentioned above, there is a huge allowance if you max the rules.
Double ski bag full of skis and loads of other stuff up to 23kgs. 2 sets of skis and a load of clothes is less than 23kgs.
Huge carry on suitcase full of boots and anything else you need, they do not weigh this, rule is you have to be able to lift it in to the overhead rack (and they may put it in the hold for you).
You can even take a "laptop/handbag size" bag too as carry on.
If you can't fit inside this lot for a week you I am doing something wrong. How do people manage on EJ Or Ryan with much less than this when paying extra for it too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Mr Marmot wrote: |
Gaza, I am impressed by your ingenuity and I thank you for researching options.
We are a group of ten and I haven't got time to put your proposals to everyone at this late stage. Not all were taking skis anyway. And most others have changed their plans and will hire instead due to the hefty ski carriage costs.
The whole idea of booking with a TO was to make things simple and it hasn't turned out that way.
Whilst re-reading the final documentation recently received I have also noted the other unexpected charge previously mentioned in a post on this forum; Inghams advise that they now expect us to pay the daily tourist tax directly to the hotel during our stay. They mention this will be €1-3 per person per day. I wonder what other unexpected incidentals they will come up with? I suppose the term 'package' can no longer be used for these holidays any longer! |
Inghams do not come out of this looking good as they should have made clear you were on a scheduled flight and therefore British Airways baggage rules applied. Even if you don't go for the Club Europe upgrade all those in your group who want to take skis should still be able to take them without paying extra. As others have said, a 23kg hold bag allowances with 2 cabin bags sized as above, would be more than sufficient for your needs. I'd put boots and bindings (if removable) in to the larger cabin bag and clothing and other stuff in the ski bag.
I get a sense that despite there being solutions to the problem you highlighted, you are so pissed off with Inghams that you'll leave the skis at home anyway. Don't bite off your nose to spite your face. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
If i listed what we manage to carry in the 23+23+8 its a huge list and includes laptops and all manor of other electronics. Standard BA allowance is one of the best of any airline
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Jake43, I'm not stressing about anything. I just feel that £110 is too much for ski carriage and I asked if others thought this amount was reasonable.
I have to smile at the advice of how I should 'work the system' when my opinion is the 'system' should be reasonable and proper for it's purpose in the first place. I have no problems with the generous 23kg basic allowance but I don't believe skis should be included in this.
Normally at this point on Snowheads 'the pack it all in one small rucksack brigade' are extolling the virtues of nightly hand- washing the one set of underwear they take for a whole week and are talking about the wonderful design of their fold-up skis and papier mache ski boots! I don't want to do any of that and it is narrow minded to state that I am doing something wrong. I am not you.
I fly Easyjet for ski holidays and easily cope with their 20kg hold and cabin baggage allowance. But Easyjet don't charge £110 for ski carriage (yet!)
So to get back to the original question, is £110 a reasonable charge for ski carriage?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Gaza, I have left my skis at home for the last dozen ski trips after Easyjet increased their ski carriage prices. It is far more convenient to hire skis these days. Others in our group still normally take their skis but all of them have now baulked at the £110 charge boy BA.
Although my point is all about the high cost of ski carriage on BA, your point about taking ski boots in hand luggage to save hold luggage weight is something I would never do now. I have been stopped twice at security in the past and made to return to check-in (and pay excess baggage charge) because ski boots in a bag in an aircraft cabin 'are a potentially dangerous weapon'!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Mr Marmot wrote: |
| I have no problems with the generous 23kg basic allowance but I don't believe skis should be included in this. |
It doesn't matter what you believe. Those are BAs rules and you have to work with them. It has been made crystal clear how to maximise your allowance within the system. It is not 'working it' or 'abusing it', it is simply using it as it is intended.
| Mr Marmot wrote: |
| So to get back to the original question, is £110 a reasonable charge for ski carriage? |
But it is not £110. You have been given crap info from Inghams. It would only be £110 if you upgraded to Club both ways. It would be £70 return if you prebooked it in advance with BA or £80 if you waited until the airport. That would be reduced to £55 if you upgraded to Club Europe one-way as you still get 2 bags for both legs.
Why do you still keep going back to the £110?
If you asked "is £70 a reasonable charge for ski carriage?", I'd say; based on a pure charter airline where it is normally £35 it doesn't look to be good value but compared to a LCC like easyJet where you have to pay for a bag and ski carriage it looks to be very good value.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Mr Marmot wrote: |
| Although my point is all about the high cost of ski carriage on BA, your point about taking ski boots in hand luggage to save hold luggage weight is something I would never do now. I have been stopped twice at security in the past and made to return to check-in (and pay excess baggage charge) because ski boots in a bag in an aircraft cabin 'are a potentially dangerous weapon'!!!!! |
Where did this happen? I have hauled mine between Edinburgh and Stansted for weeks and was never even queried. They went straight through the scanner and out the other side. Same applied to Geneva. The only reports on here of people having an issue is at Grenoble.
If I had had an issue I'd have asked for the Security Manager and to be shown where in the DfT, CAA or IATA security guidance it says ski boots are considered a dangerous weapon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
My tuppence - off to Ischgl in Feb with Inghams, flying Austrian Airlines from Birmingham to Innsbruck and paid £35 rtn for skis, on top of hold baggage and hand baggage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Mr Marmot, I was trying to be helpful in suggesting that you are thinking of Skis as extras, as that is what most airlines treat them as. BA have gone down a completely different baggage calculating method, which many on here are trying to point out, is simple to work with and gets you skis free not £110. So I am at a loss to answer your question as I see them as free.
If you insist in taking skis by themselves then yes you would pay the money and also it has been shown that you can do this cheaper by either doing it direct with BA or upgrade to club. Not to mention you can get 3 sets in a bag.
Maybe you are asking me the wrong question. It seems to have nothing to do with BA at all. If you asked are Inghams ok charging the amount they want when they have you over a barrel then that is a different question. And you have voted with your feet which should hopefully make them change there pricing, eventually. So what do EJ charge of only carrying a single set of skis. i.e. what their T&C say. Multiply that by 3 and what number have we come too.
Sorry we are not just saying yes to you as many seem to agree that BA Skis are free if you bend your normal packing rules a very small amount.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@Mr Marmot,
| Quote: |
Whilst re-reading the final documentation recently received I have also noted the other unexpected charge previously mentioned in a post on this forum; Inghams advise that they now expect us to pay the daily tourist tax directly to the hotel during our stay. They mention this will be €1-3 per person per day. I wonder what other unexpected incidentals they will come up with? I suppose the term 'package' can no longer be used for these holidays any longer!
|
This is far from unusual. I have come across it many, many times. i think the issue is that local government insist that the fees are collected and paid by the hotels themselves, and while I dare say this could all be done through the TO it is usually a great deal simpler all round for the hotel to do it direct.
I can't help feeling, now that @Gaza seems to have discovered the route of the problem, that this was simply a breakdown in communication/cockup by Inghams rather than any profiteering. I also think that it should have been pretty obvious all along that this was a scheduled flight. Why did you asume it wasn't? In fact, I'd suggest that the whole concept of 'charter flights' has pretty much disappeared anyway. Maybe less so for the biggest TO's going to the biggest resorts but all the usual suspects like Monarch, Thomas Cook etc. are now just LLCs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| This is far from unusual. I have come across it many, many times. i think the issue is that local government insist that the fees are collected and paid by the hotels themselves, and while I dare say this could all be done through the TO it is usually a great deal simpler all round for the hotel to do it direct. |
The hotels/condos in 1950 have no problem with collecting from the local taxes the customer or the TO. They have a list detailing who pays. It makes no difference to them from an admin point of view.
I should also add that a couple of years ago when we travelled with Inghams, they switched us from a Titan to an Easyjet flight which incurred an increase in the ski carriage charges. However, Inghams covered this increase, so the change had no impact on us (except for going through Geneva rather than Chambery; a change which I would have paid them for!). In the case of the "BA" charges, I would guess at cock-up (but one that Inghams should have spotted) rather than conspiracy
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@Mr Marmot[/b], your logical reasoning is not sound here.
You can carry your skis for free, as part of your included baggage allowance, in one bag as long as it is no heavier than 23kg. You also have a generous cabin allowance to put anything extra in like helmet.
No one is charging you £110 for ski carriage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| kat.ryb wrote: |
| You can carry your skis for free, as part of your included baggage allowance, in one bag as long as it is no heavier than 23kg. |
Just out of interest, how many people have a "coffin style" bag that can carry a pair of skis and the rest of your luggage to get you under 23kg? I bought one a few seasons ago to avoid additional baggage charges when flying BA, but the bag cost £120 IIRC. It's a good option if you have the correct luggage up front, but if you don't have a bag that can carry skis and everything else it's not going to work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
