 Poster: A snowHead
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@johnE I'm not saying that 15 minutes saved via the 30Kph lane on a 5 hour journey is the sole reason for getting a SANEF Tag.
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Gulp. more like 1.5 minutes on a 9 hour journey.
@pam w, Sadly I just put the card in then follow it with the debit card and never really look at the display at all. I only look when reading the bank statement the next month.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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more like 1.5 minutes on a 9 hour journey
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yeah, that's my experience. On the long journey from Geneva to Calais I think there 4 péage gates. My tag is a great convenience, especially for travelling alone, but I don't kid myself it saves me much time. Saves grovelling for tickets and credit cards and getting out and walking round. But I do that when I drive in Italy and can't say it's a major challenge. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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a lot of people also don't realise that Telepéage lanes are often "mixed" i.e. can used to pay with a card... Hence the lane goes empty when people are queuing in the lanes right next to it.. But maybe I shouldn't advertise that..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| sarah wrote: |
| @larkim, not not unlucky, you had your timings wrong then I'm afraid and would have been in the thick of the hordes leaving the mountains then. We made an early start and were at Calais for around 2.30pm so well ahead of the masses and no queues. Timings are key on peak weekends. |
Not wrong, just our choice. I did appreciate that that would be the peak time, particularly for the Chambery peage, but to ensure we were driving in the day and to make sure that we had a relatively short final leg after a stop-over in Calais overnight it made the most sense to us to travel at that time. And because we were stopping in Calais, rather than heading for a ferry / train, there was no stress about sitting there.
My point about the peages really was that the illogical thing is that the roads themselves accommodate the volume of traffic perfectly well, even on a busy day like the Saturday heading away from resort. There are no traffic jams due to motorways merging, busy junctions exits - the only jams occur because of the peages themselves which have an insufficient capacity to deal with the traffic volumes - there seems to be a big mis-match between road capacities and the toll booth capacities, and it was this that left me wondering what the French make of this.
Added to which going through Dartford on the return journey, even with the roadworks there, and with a significantly larger number of cars on the road, the delay at the toll booths there was minor (less than 3 minutes from recollection). So even though I think the Dart Crossing signage etc was poor, the efficiency of the toll system was adequate and superior to that in France, which is why I was wondering whether the French recognise that at close to peak times (and bear in mind our resort seemed quiet, and it wasn't French school holidays) the infrastructure of the toll booths is inadequate and are pressuring the govt / motorway companies to do something about it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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a lot of people also don't realise that Telepéage lanes are often "mixed" i.e. can used to pay with a card... Hence the lane goes empty when people are queuing in the lanes right next to it.. But maybe I shouldn't advertise that.. wink
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They do have card symbols along with the T. It is only the 30 lanes that are exclusive for Telepeage. I suspect it is the fear of pulling across several lanes of vehicles that forces people to the right hand lanes.
BTW is there still the facility to pay by cash at the French toll booths? There used to be many years ago.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Kruisler wrote: |
| a lot of people also don't realise that Telepéage lanes are often "mixed" i.e. can used to pay with a card... Hence the lane goes empty when people are queuing in the lanes right next to it.. But maybe I shouldn't advertise that.. |
Only the ones marked with green cash or white card symbols as well as the orange T can be used with anything else, as marked.
T only are telepeage only.
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@larkim, The Chambery peage deals with more than skiers. Chambery itself is a major town and traffic for that Peage comes from Grenoble, and Italy through the Frejus tunnel as well as a lot of local traffic. The town itself is a very busy commercial centre. Just as the shopping centres of Wednesbury cause big traffic jams on the M6/M5 on a Saturday afternoon then the commercial traffic into Chambery also cause trffic problems. Did you know that Chambery has the biggest DIY store in France.
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BTW is there still the facility to pay by cash at the French toll booths? There used to be many years ago.
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yes there is
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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it made the most sense to us to travel at that time.
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trouble is, it makes "most sense" for everybody to leave after breakfast - no problem about that, but then it's a bit illogical to complain of being "unlucky". Luck doesn't enter into it - it was, as you say, your choice to travel at a predictably busy time, just as many people choose to travel to Cornwall on Saturdays in August.
It is wrong, by the way, to suggest that the only traffic jams on French roads are at the péage gates. There are regularly big queues getting off the A40 at Annemasse (no gates involved as it's not a paying section) and Annecy is famous for jams.
It rarely makes sense to plan infrastructure to cope easily with peak capacity which occurs a few times a year. That's why it would be foolish for a village in southern England to invest in the prodigious amount of heavy machinery which is routinely deployed on snowy mornings in a small Alpine ski resort.
I was surprised when they built the "voie sur berge" bypass along the river in Albertville as there weren't that many delays, normally. Most middle sized UK towns have far greater problems.
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There can be jams around Grenoble too at peak times. The Rocade is often jammed solid near certain junctions.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| johnE wrote: |
| @larkim, The Chambery peage deals with more than skiers. Chambery itself is a major town and traffic for that Peage comes from Grenoble, and Italy through the Frejus tunnel as well as a lot of local traffic. The town itself is a very busy commercial centre. Just as the shopping centres of Wednesbury cause big traffic jams on the M6/M5 on a Saturday afternoon then the commercial traffic into Chambery also cause trffic problems. Did you know that Chambery has the biggest DIY store in France. |
That last part I didn't know!
But yes, I do appreciate that it is a busy area (as is the Reims junction). I'm not pointing the finger at Chambery in particular, we've had issues with free flowing autoroute traffic being stopped in its tracks in Normandy, Brittany, the Vendee, around Reims, Angers, Angouleme, Tours etc etc. It obviously stands to reason that there are quieter and busier times, and often the busier times are busy for a reason - that these are the times that people want / need to travel. My experience of french tolls is inextricably linked to school holidays, being a father of 4, so to a point I fully expect that the autoroutes will be busier at the times I travel than they would be at 2am on a Tuesday in mid March. And if I wanted to (with the wealth of experience I've had of peage delays!) I could chose to plan my driving specifically around that issue (I don't because there are other factors which are more important to me). I personally accept the fact that there will be delays, and if there aren't any then that's a bonus.
As I posted, my point is that for the French themselves (who provide most of the traffic in the delays I've been caught up in) there must be some recognition that there are peak time delays which could be cured by some reengineering, and my question was whether there is any French agitation to get this sorted.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| larkim wrote: |
As I posted, my point is that for the French themselves (who provide most of the traffic in the delays I've been caught up in) there must be some recognition that there are peak time delays which could be cured by some reengineering, and my question was whether there is any French agitation to get this sorted. |
For Chambery there is very little problem most of the time, the road system is overengineered for a small provincial town, you rarely see 3 lane road tunnels in France. For Grenoble there is agitation as the by pass is saturated for a lot of the time. However the solutions considered by politicians are all incredibly expensive for a town that is already one of the most indebted in France to due previous extravagant projects.... such as building a huge football stadium for a 3rd division club with about 5000 fans. The projects seem to be largely based on delivering nice little earners to the politicians' mates in public engineering firms rather than delivering a cost effective solution. One problem is poor road exchanger design which slows traffic, rather than adopting tried and tested designs like the clover leaf it seems French road engineers subcontract design to cocaine crazed arachnids. Another thing road engineers seem to have forgetten is putting a slope or camber on roads to drain standing water when it rains. Grenoble would be helped if every single road sign wasn't obscured by graffiti, not ideal for lost tourists.
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You know it makes sense.
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There can be jams around Grenoble too at peak times. The Rocade is often jammed solid near certain junctions.
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Pretty normal stuff for all roads around Grenoble I'm afraid; not just at peak holiday periods.
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such as building a huge football stadium for a 3rd division club with about 5000 fans.
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Yeah, that was pretty stupid. They couldn't fill it even for the brief period they were in League 1...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@davidof, I accept/expect the roads to be jammed around Grenoble. Just as I expect the motorways close to the city centre in the UK - think Manchester, Newcastle and Lyons - to be pretty much hell to negotiate. As an aside; do you have any tips for the best way to get to Space Mountain (Espace Montagne) from either the Lyon road or from Crolles. I need some new climbing gear and they have just about the best stock in the world.
In the past the rural roads in France used to have pretty extreme camber and now you have mentioned it it does appear to have largely disappeared.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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book overnight accommodation further south and ski the Saturday.
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a really good idea.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| larkim wrote: |
| As I posted, my point is that for the French themselves (who provide most of the traffic in the delays I've been caught up in) there must be some recognition that there are peak time delays which could be cured by some reengineering, and my question was whether there is any French agitation to get this sorted. |
I am sure that there are a number of locations where a new layout could help and would make sense. But as always in most cases major work is probably not cost effective/justifiable. It's a bit like people here moaning when a bit of snow overwhelms our roads and pointing to scandinavia/canada as to how it should be done,. What is the point in investing millions to deal with something that doesn't occur all that often..
The French do not like queuing any more than others but since France is (or was) the first tourist destination in the world and a major road "hub" which most of the european north-south traffic has to go through, most people have never known any different, so they either put up or do alternative dates/routes. All of this is also why toll roads in France make sense. When you consider the volume of foreigners, e.g. belgians/dutch/germans, using the roads to get to the south coast and ski resorts, it's only fair to make them contribute and a "per use" charge is a good way of doing it. Toll queues could be reduced avoided by installing a system that reads number plates and charge people, a bit like Dartford is doing, but since european data sharing is not reliable (the UK in particular often opts out of these things) then it's not really an option right now..
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FAQ
